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Overall Isolation - network, USB, and power

austinpop

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fob69

fob69

Posted
Posted

Invisible source... i see what you mean. Very interesting.

 

My dac needs no power (i will cut 5v), but it needs ground on usb. I don't see hiw this ground is managed if it is cutted by the intona galvanic isolation...

 

 

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Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

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Cornan

Cornan

Posted
Posted
Invisible source... i see what you mean. Very interesting.

 

My dac needs no power (i will cut 5v), but it needs ground on usb. I don't see hiw this ground is managed if it is cutted by the intona galvanic isolation...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

 

I think you should read this reply from John Swensson http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blog_post.php?do=newblog&p=589606 especially the word of "galvanic isolation".

The best way to isolate something is to cut it off completely! ;)

 

Most DAC´s that do not require 5v do not require GND after handshake as well. This means that you need to have the GND wire connected during the initial handshake and until music starts playing...and then disconnect it. However, this requires special made cables for the purpose...which I use. If you use normal shielded USB cables you have no other option than cutting the 5v (Sbooster Vbus2 Isolator recommended. I own many 5v blockers and this one is outstanding IMO) and using Intona...which ofcourse is a major step-up from nothing at all.

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Cornan

Cornan

Posted
Posted
I cannor access to the link ... you where rigth : ground required only for hanshake. What do you use as a switch ? A m/f small jack ?

 

 

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Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

 

I use a DC male plug and DC female socket with screw terminals for my GND lift. Easy! :)

I will se if I can send you the link again when I am on my tablet.

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Cornan

Cornan

Posted
Posted
Ground lift ? You connect the ground somwherr ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

 

Here is the ground lift on my USB cable. :)

1476207956803.jpg

Mind you that this is just to show. I have actually two like this. One 500mm (on picture) between the Aries Mini and Regen and one 160mm (not shown) between the Regen and DAC. I disconnect both after DAC handshake so there is no ground connection through the wire (and no shielding/dielectric as you can see. Just twisted Mundorf gold silver wires in silk sleeves as bought from Elijah Audio.

 

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Cornan

Cornan

Posted
Posted
Ok i did not see the ground wire... where do you connect it ?

 

 

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Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

It is the black wire which is the ground wire of my USB cable. I disconnect the male & female DC connectors from each other after DAC handshake (split it in two). As I previously mensioned it requires a special made USB cable...not something you can do with normal shielded USB cables.

 

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Cornan

Cornan

Posted
Posted
Why didn't you braid it with cable ?

 

 

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Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

Due to the possible capasitive coupling along the lenght of the wire which have a negative impact to SQ in the same way as shielding and dielectric materials IMO.

 

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Cornan

Cornan

Posted
Posted
You still have the capacitive effect of D+/D-

 

 

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Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

Yes, indeed. But with longer lenghts the twisting is needed to ensure DAC handshake (due to interfearences and/or impedance match issues. Not 100% sure yet though. Currently experimenting in this area. All I know is that the twist is needed on my 500mm cable but not on my 160mm cable). If you use shorter cables you can separate the D+ and D- atleast >4 times the diameter of the wire to reduce the capasitive coupling. Some capasitive coupling is still present inside the plugs...and that is one of the reasons I personally beleive that the plugs...and only the plugs...should be shielded for best result.

 

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fob69

fob69

Posted
Posted

:-). I was about to ask you about impedance matching for the 50cm one ... braid instead of twist (+,-, grd), gave me very good results on supply cables and interconnects.

Wich diameter do you use for silver gold wires ?

Does the silk ensure the mecanical strongness or wire weld ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

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Cornan

Cornan

Posted
Posted
:-). I was about to ask you about impedance matching for the 50cm one ... braid instead of twist (+,-, grd), gave me very good results on supply cables and interconnects.

Wich diameter do you use for silver gold wires ?

Does the silk ensure the mecanical strongness or wire weld ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

I have bought the cables from Elijah Audio and are not sure about the gauge. The unbleached silk sleeving is the just ensuring natural isolation for the wires.

 

The only thing I want to use the GND for in my cables is except for the handshake...to ensure barrel shielding (by using a tiny loop wire between the GND pin and USB barrel. Mind you. I have'nt tried my theory IRL yet though)

 

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ElviaCaprice

ElviaCaprice

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My dac needs no power (i will cut 5v), but it needs ground on usb. I don't see hiw this ground is managed if it is cutted by the intona galvanic isolation...

 

You are correct. If you eliminate the 5V and are using an Intona, you are galvanically isolated as long as you don't introduce another power supply (non galvanically isolated) following the Intona, including the DAC. Therefore there is no concern with the gnd wire of the USB chords/adapters following the Intona to the DAC.

 

For Impedance matching do as John Swenson suggested, use a Regen powered by battery (JKenny mod) or LPS-1.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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ElviaCaprice

ElviaCaprice

Posted
Posted
If there is no ground connection between the player and the dac because of the intona, the handshake is made between intona and the dac, and it is enougth ? Am i right ?

 

Does you DAC require to see (handshake) the 5V USB power lead? The Intona does pass on USB power. Myself, I do not need the 5V power handshake with my DAC so I eliminated this in my USB chords and adapters.

Since I don't have any 5V power lead and I'm galvanically isolated, who cares about the gnd wire, it's harmless.

But if you don't need the 5V power lead then you could eliminate the gnd wire, thus the 1,4 pins. Guess it wouldn't hurt but I've read in this forum that the gnd wire is a good idea to have from DAC to source.

 

So either leave it be or eliminate it all together

 

Probably want to test first by tapping over the 1 and/or 4 pins first at the Intona output, on the USB chord/adapter.

.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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Cornan

Cornan

Posted
Posted

Taping pin 4 will not work at all since it is needed for the DAC handshake. The only option is to remove the GND is using a DC switch (DIP etc) or male+female connectors (DC plugs, bullet plugs etc) on the GND wire. In general taping pins no 1 is not at all as beneficial as using Vbus2. Been there...done that.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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fob69

fob69

Posted
Posted
Does you DAC require to see (handshake) the 5V USB power lead? The Intona does pass on USB power. Myself, I do not need the 5V power handshake with my DAC so I eliminated this in my USB chords and adapters.

Since I don't have any 5V power lead and I'm galvanically isolated, who cares about the gnd wire, it's harmless.

But if you don't need the 5V power lead then you could eliminate the gnd wire, thus the 1,4 pins. Guess it wouldn't hurt but I've read in this forum that the gnd wire is a good idea to have from DAC to source.

 

So either leave it be or eliminate it all together

 

Probably want to test first by tapping over the 1 and/or 4 pins first at the Intona output, on the USB chord/adapter.

.

 

with my audiogdnfb29, i can remove the 5V, but i need a one second contact on the ground for hand shake.

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Cornan

Cornan

Posted
Posted
with my audiogdnfb29, i can remove the 5V, but i need a one second contact on the ground for hand shake.

If you have some DIY and solder knowledge it is possible to build a couple of USB A male plug to USB A female socket without the 5v wire and with a 1-pole DIP switch inbetween for the GND lift which would work with any cables into the Intona and between the Intona and DAC. You can check r_w's nifty adapter on this thread to get the general idea http://www.computeraudiophile.com/showthread.php?t=29897

Use of Copper Foil for RFI / EMI . BTW he have tied both the shielding+GND to his DIP switch...and he is using both Intona & RUR in his setup.

However, best results for SQ would be to change the cables to those USB A to USB B cables instead of using your own cables plus adapter.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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ElviaCaprice

ElviaCaprice

Posted
Posted
with my audiogdnfb29, i can remove the 5V, but i need a one second contact on the ground for hand shake.

 

Then all I do is yank out the 5V pin on my adapters and usb chords. Just get a pointed sharp tool in there to pry it up and either get ahold of it or bend it till it breaks out.

I went ahead and pulled out my gnd pin (first I tested with electrical tape), no change in SQ.

 

How do you know that you need the gnd pin for a second?? How did you test it? If your not noticing a change in SQ, I would just leave it be. But do pull the 5V pins.

I certainly noticed a change in SQ with and without the 5V. If you have an expensive chord, then I would just tape over the 5V with electrical tape or use a light shimmy and tape. Good enough.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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Cornan

Cornan

Posted
Posted
Then all I do is yank out the 5V pin on my adapters and usb chords. Just get a pointed sharp tool in there to pry it up and either get ahold of it or bend it till it breaks out.

I went ahead and pulled out my gnd pin, no change in SQ, but it all still runs good.

 

How do you know that you need the gnd pin for a second?? How did you test it?

If you are using shielded cables the GND have just found another path to ground (through the shielding)! May sound the same...but could very well sound worse.

 

Not all DACs needs the GND for handshake (via the cable)....but the vast majority do!

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

🎛️  Audio System  

 

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