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Overall Isolation - network, USB, and power


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Hi all,

 

Thank you for this thread.

 

I just bought an etalon streamer and i am upgrading the environment.

I have an intona and a EMO EN-HD70 on the way (i will report tests between optical bridge and EN-HD70).

 

After some test with lithium battery, i decide to build a regulated lifepo4 battery for the etalon.

 

I have an optical bridge with TP-link MC110CS .

Do you think i should use the same battery/regulator for the TP link and Etalon, one battery and two regulators ou two battery ans two regulators ?

 

Best regards

 

Bernard

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I don't understand the mileage joke ...

Thank you for the advice.

Lifepo4 batteries seams to be less unstable than lithium.

 

I read that ethernet has galvanic isolation. It is a joke.

I first use a tecknet lithium supply for tp link, not only the sound was horrible but i did not even could play properly 192kh throught usb.

 

Other question, about grounding : both tplink and etalon don't have ground connection on supply. If i use inota between etalon and the dac, i will have no ground connection at all ... isn't it a problem ?

 

Bernard

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

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For the battery, lifepo4 does not exist in 4,8v or 5v, so i took one given for 6v (don't know why it is not 6,4v as it should be, i wish it is not already actively regulated) : http://www.all-batteries.fr/batterie-lithium-fer-phosphate-un38-3-6v-4-5ah-t1-aml9142.html

 

So i must use a regulator. I choose a TPS7A4700 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18245866/Universal%20Power%20Supply%20with%20TPS7A4700%20LDO%20VR%20%28OCT%29.pdf).

 

I will try with regulator only, and with regulator + pcb. Do you think i should remove the electrolytic capa and plug the battery there ?

 

 

I see that you have experience with battery... I tried a simple 4,5V alcaline battery, and the sound was not very good. Would there be any "chemical noise" one those batteries ?

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

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Invisible source... i see what you mean. Very interesting.

 

My dac needs no power (i will cut 5v), but it needs ground on usb. I don't see hiw this ground is managed if it is cutted by the intona galvanic isolation...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

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:-). I was about to ask you about impedance matching for the 50cm one ... braid instead of twist (+,-, grd), gave me very good results on supply cables and interconnects.

Wich diameter do you use for silver gold wires ?

Does the silk ensure the mecanical strongness or wire weld ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

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Does you DAC require to see (handshake) the 5V USB power lead? The Intona does pass on USB power. Myself, I do not need the 5V power handshake with my DAC so I eliminated this in my USB chords and adapters.

Since I don't have any 5V power lead and I'm galvanically isolated, who cares about the gnd wire, it's harmless.

But if you don't need the 5V power lead then you could eliminate the gnd wire, thus the 1,4 pins. Guess it wouldn't hurt but I've read in this forum that the gnd wire is a good idea to have from DAC to source.

 

So either leave it be or eliminate it all together

 

Probably want to test first by tapping over the 1 and/or 4 pins first at the Intona output, on the USB chord/adapter.

.

 

with my audiogdnfb29, i can remove the 5V, but i need a one second contact on the ground for hand shake.

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Intona deals with DC currents...and the problem that is solved by lifting 5v and GND is caused by AC currents. Intona galvanicly isolates the USB but still "forward" 5v and GND. Just think of it. Without a 5v and GND connection 99% of the DAC´s would´nt work with the Intona.

 

Sorry for those newbie questions but :

- How does the dac detects that there is a ground comming from the usb ? is it "a potential difference, followed by a zero difference potentiel just after the hanshake" ?

- In the case where the player is battery suplied, where does this ground comes from ? is it a flotting point ground created by the player ?

- Does usualiy the incoming GND from usb the same that DAC GND or the DAC input is GND isolated (i can test is this evening), is it the same for symetrical DAC ?

 

B.

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... Just remember that AFAIK the Intona does´nt isolate AC currents (loop) running through the GND and 5v DC wires in the USB cable. It deals with DC currents.

 

Intona does isolate +5V and ground :

 

 

  • Ultra-quiet power rail isolation, linear regulation

As i understand it, intona re generates his hown DC curent, isolated from input DC, but with NO add on power supply.

I don't see what could be better (expect no 5V and no ground if you don't need them)

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I rode the post of J.S. recommended by ElviaCaprice above... very interesting.

 

I understand that if you use an intona and if you can cut the 5V on the output, you cut both ground loops, the leakage currents from source, the leakage currents on the 5V/ground intona output, signal is reclocked by intona... Everything is done, and with no added power supply. If the ground can be cutted too it will be even better.

 

I have a doubt on the galvanic isolation on the micro rendu ethernet input. Ethernet input is supposed to have a galvanic isolation, but on both my etalon and SBT, the PS that i use on the TPlink just before the player (optical bridge), has a strong effect on the SQ.

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The 5V VBUS on the downstream side is provided by an isolated switching DC/DC converter.

 

A switching converter ??. If your right that means that a good PS battery or other would be better and if so i understand your point of view about the regen

 

Putting a REGEN after the Intona cleans up the issues with the not so great signal integrity and noise on the 5V line

 

If the intona reclock the signal, that means that it is regenerated, so it should threats the integrity too

 

As far as what is going on with the ETHERNET side of things, I will be very interested in hearing reports from people that use an LPS-1 with a microRendu whether Ethernet isolators etc make any difference in this configuration. I still don't have any good theories as to why an Ethernet isolator makes any difference given that Ethernet already has transformers on both ends. (this is assuming you are not using shielded cables that actually connect ground from one box to another)

I did not test microrendu and it is probably very good on this point, but is seams not hazardous to think that the ethernet galvanic isolation on ethernet is made to stop the DC and low frequencies, and won't stop the high frequency noise close to the tcp/ip signal frequencies and its harmonics.

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On the topic of battery power supplies, are there any modest-cost items around which there is a consensus on CA?

 

Specifically, for:

  1. Powering a TP-Link FMC?
    • Low-cost LPS recommendation is Jameco 9V/0.5A. I'm using these, and I like them a lot.
    • For BPS, any good recommendation? it can use a 5V/1A supply too.

 

[*]Replacing the USB 5V Vbus in general - say from Intona to RUR/Regen, or Regen/RUR to DAC?

[*]Powering a Regen or RUR? Typically 6-9V/1A.

 

I know the LPS-1 is the current darling, but at $295, it's hardly a modest-cost option.

 

I've been pointed to these 5V battery packs at various times:

 

Are these good for 1 and 2 above?

 

Also, some of these have 2 output ports, and ample mAh ratings. If I use them to power 2 things, am I breaking the primary tenet of isolation? Or is it only if I power 2 things that are on 2 sides of an isolation boundary? By isolation boundary, I mean an Intona or Alldaq (USB) and fiber on the network.

 

What about 6-9V/1A BPS for RUR/Regen?

 

I test three 5v pack for iPhone/ipad.

This one https://www.amazon.fr/TeckNet®-génération-Technologie-BLUETEKTM-compatible/dp/B00FAU7ZB2 that is close to the one you give one link, and an other recent one, give bad results (very digital sound), on my tplink and player. They are probably switch regulated, with a lot of noise.

I have a old and cheap 5V pack that seams not to be regulated at all, that give very good results, both on the tplink, and on my player.

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You absolutely don't have to care about the ps for the uphill tplink (mine is suppled by switching dc usb from my tv player). It is isolated by optical from the downhill one, and ethernet tcp/ip protocol provide a perfect data transfert in all the cases. Of course you mustn't use a common supply for both tplink otherwise you break the optical isolation.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

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I don't see how to fully isolate the tv system from hifisystem. I use to have a galvanis transfo, but on the amp it makes loose too much dynamics, and on the Dac it changes the sounds, degrades the strereo image / i don't even know if it cut well the high frequency noise / about ground i did not cut it i think it is too dangerous on 230v components). The best i have done are thos two different lines and schaffners

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

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