Overall Isolation - network, USB, and power

[lmitche]

The reason that network isolation is important is quite simple. Your cable modem, router and through them the entire network is connected to the cable system running to your house. The cable system is destined to carry radio frequency signals. That is its purpose. But past your cable modem, you don't want any RF. Despite galvanically isolated ethernet connections, the RF will carry into your network cable plant. Also long cable runs may pickup RF and EMI from in home AC cables or whatever. An Ethernet isolation device, fiber or transformers stops, or lowers, the pollution. I have four on my network.

[lmitche]

Larry, all fair points with regard to pollution on the wired network, and the positive impact of isolation.

 

But since wifi (802.11ac, 5GHz, strong signal) has complete network isolation, I'm still not sure why it still sounds worse than wired - even with adequate bandwidth. Yet it does. Many people have reported superior SQ with wired over wireless for Aries and Aries Mini streamers.

My music network has a wireless connection to a router sitting 6 inches away. The router creates a second subnet on one end of the home network. An El Cheapo powered Asus ea-n66 wireless adapter is connected to my NAS PC with an EMOsystems isolation transformer between two BJC CAT 6a cables. This way the wireless connection only carries the ROON iPad control signals and internet connectivity for the NAS PC and downstream audio PC.

 

The NAS PC has two nic ports, one connected to the wireless adapter as described above and the second direct to the audiopc (with another isolation transformer & BJC Cat 6as). A virtual switch in the NAS routes traffic, so no physical switch or power supply is used.

 

With the isolation transformer, no pollution from the wireless adapter is evident. Lastly the music signal always passes on a wired connection. This is a good thing.

 

After spending close to a year testing any number of network and isolation configurations, fiber FMCs etc, this is what sounds best here.

[lmitche]

Wow, that's some topology!

Lol, I'm not sure that's a compliment. It is certainly the first time my toplogy has raised a Wow.

 

The music network is as simple as I could make it with only five active components in a line: wireless adapter, NAS PC, Audio PC, DAC and Amp.

 

Currently, I am once again experimenting with the USB connection and AC config.

[lmitche]

Thanks! I'll look for one.

 

Right now I'm only seeing the el cheapo

https://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-28108-Y-Cable-Black/dp/B0013LSFJI/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1474840959&sr=1-1&keywords=USB+2.0+One+B+Male+to+Two+USB+A+Male+Y-Cable

or the expensive

LightSpeed 2G USB Cable - LHLabs

 

Funny, I just bought a similar El Cheapo split power/data extender cable for use with my IFI microIDSD DAC. It sounds surprisingly good, better then a Supra cable with the VBUS disconnected from the PC. Each leg is 8 inches long and perhaps the diminutive length contributes to SQ.

 

I had to modify the data side as testing showed the vbus was connected on all three ends. I just used a tweezer to remove pin 1 on the data side and was good to go.

 

You can't beat the value here at $6.

 

Coincidentally, I noticed last week that the LHLABS 2G split USB cable had a price drop to $199. Said to be high bandwidth cable, I was curious to hear how it sounds against the Supra on the newly arrived T+A DAC at DSD512. I ordered a 1 and 2 meter version. They are sold in Amazon, so there was little risk in trying both.

 

First off, after cooking both individually for 18 hours each, in a comparison yesterday there is no doubt, the shorter 1 meter version sounds better.

 

Secondly, this cable beats both the Supra and the value cable hands down. The image is more stable with more natural placement of players and instruments, and there is just more emotion conveyed.

 

I had a spontaneous five hour listening session last night exploring my library with Roon. It was just about the music. SQ ceased to be a distraction, what a pleasure!

 

I think spending $200 for a USB cable is ridiculous. However, I'm glad I did it.

[lmitche]

[lmitche]

What do you have between the Intona and DAC?

 

And yes, that is a good starting point.

[lmitche]

Understood. Was just wondering if you had tried no isolation. Clearly you didn't. No worries.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

One could ask the same about your USB chain!

[lmitche]

Have you tried establishing a baseline without the Intona, RUR etc? Which cable sounds best, Cardas, Curious? Which is in second place?

[lmitche]

Thanks that's clear. I didn't realize you haven't received any of the USB chain enhancers yet.

 

I've done this exercise and look forward to learning where you end up.

[lmitche]

Actually I have a fairly high-end and very well-acclaimed DAC - the Ayre Codex.

 

It is an AC powered DAC/headphone amp, so it came as a surprise to many of us on CA and head-fi that the DAC section is actually bus powered. Many were chagrined and disappointed.

 

But the way I look at it is - it's an amazing DAC as is. Perhaps it'll sound even more amazing with clean bus power.

 

I'll look into the Aqvox. I already have the Teralink U9VA LPS coming. I'm not convinced the Aqvox will add that much.

 

We'll see. [emoji5]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

Don't you have a light speed 2g? If so you don't need the aqvox.

 

I have both, and the light speed is best here.

[lmitche]

Austinpop, reading this, I am lost. What is the current state of your USB chain?

[lmitche]

 

Sometime I don't remember myself!

 

But my current chain is as shown in the signature. For USB specifically, it is:

• Auralic Aries Mini <- Curious 0.2m USB -> Intona Industrial <- Vbus2 -> <- Curious 0.2m USB -> W4S Recovery <- Cardas Clear USB -> Ayre Codex
  

Will the Lightspeed 2g with external power work between the PC and Intona? Otherwise the same setup should work in front of the DAC without a VBUS2.

[lmitche]

You have to take into account the nose profile of the digital wireless circuitry too.

Agreed, a Roman nose profile is best!?

[lmitche]

So I tried 3 configs tonight with the Lightspeed (LH) 2G split USB cable and the Tecknet 5V battery.

 

The Tecknet claims to put out "Output: Each Port - 5V/3.0A max , 3.4A in Total." Certainly it has no trouble powering the TP-Link FMC. However, as you'll see below, I am really beginning to wonder what its current capabilities truly are, and how poor its regulation must be.

 

USB configurations

 

Baseline:

• Chain: Aries Mini > Curious 0.2m USB -> Intona Industrial > Vbus2 > Curious 0.2m USB > W4S Recovery > Cardas Clear USB > Ayre Codex
  
• Result: Works fine.
  

Experiment 1: Use split cable and Tecknet 5V to power Intona

• Chain:
  
  • Aries Mini > Vbus2 > LH 2G USB (data) -> Intona Industrial > Vbus2 > Curious 0.2m USB > W4S Recovery > Cardas Clear USB > Ayre Codex
    
  • Tecknet 5V battery > LH 2G USB (power) > Intona
    

   

  [*]Result: Intona light blinks, but does not sync. Turning off battery removes power, so clearly the connection is correct, but Intona won't establish sync. My guess is the battery voltage is sagging under load.

Experiment 2: Same as Experiment 1, but no Vbus2 on Aries Mini output

• Chain:
  
  • Aries Mini > LH 2G USB (data) -> Intona Industrial > Vbus2 > Curious 0.2m USB > W4S Recovery > Cardas Clear USB > Ayre Codex
    
  • Tecknet 5V battery > LH 2G USB (power) > Intona
    

   

  [*]Result: Same as experiment 1: Intona light blinks, but does not sync.

Experiment 3: Use split cable and battery to send 5V to the DAC, but no Vbus2

• Chain:
  
  • Aries Mini > Curious 0.2m USB > Intona Industrial > Curious 0.2m USB > W4S Recovery > Lightspeed 2g USB (data) > Ayre Codex
    
  • Tecknet 5V battery > Lightspeed 2g USB (power) > Ayre Codex
    

   

  [*]Result: Same as before. Codex does not connect to Aries Mini

 

I have a Teralink X1/X2 9V/5V/1A LPS that has been in transit for a month from Hong Kong - probably stuck in customs. If/When it gets here, I'll use its 5V output to try this again.

 

Not a ringing endorsement of the Tecknet, is it!

Yeh, something isn't right with that battery. Do you have a DMM to measure the voltage drop when something is drawing power?

[lmitche]

The Intona always needs power at its input, it's not just used for handshaking.

[lmitche]

I had a "noise sniffer" type piece (amplifies noise) in my system when I tried the Baaske upon first getting it, so the difference it made in reducing noise was very evident.

 

lmitche I know thinks the EMO Systems isolators are even more effective, though they are more expensive.

Actually, I have one Baaske and three EMOsystems isolation transformers. I bought the Baaske first, then one EMOsystems, compared the two and moved to EMOsystems for the other two.

 

It was two years ago and I can't remember the detailed differences in SQ, but it was real.

[lmitche]

The Auralic Vega DAC takes in AC power (IEC AC receptacle), so it is not possible to power it with an HDPlex LPS, as far as I can tell (at least without modifying the Vega).

 

My friend and I both plug our Vega DAC through a small (100VA) toroidal balanced isolation transformer. We also recently added a Jensen XLR isolation transformer to the balanced analog outputs, and the sound improved noticeably, and the USB input became better sounding than the AES digital input. It was the other way round before the Jensen XLR transformer was added.

Did you use a balanced to balanced or balanced to single ended Jensen transformer?

[lmitche]

To add to above:

 

I added a Baaske between my cable modem and router. It made me feel better to have that isolation in place.

 

Did it make an SQ difference? To my ears: no, nothing I could discern.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

Yea, but your network may run faster. Also a wired network capable TV will have a better picture.

[lmitche]

Here is a little SQ tip for those of you with a wifi connected streamer.

Make sure that the main routers 5G wifi connection is dedicated to the streamer only (all others devices connected to the 2,4Ghz and set them to forget 5G and 5G-EXT) and add a good wifi extender with the 5G-EXT wifi connection dedicated for your control point only. It makes quite a difference in SQ for pocket money IME.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

I did something similar to this long ago. You are right, it makes a big difference in SQ. A separate music subnet is helpful as well.

[lmitche]

 

Sorry, I did not get time to try this. TBH, I am not motivated to do this, since I had heard significant improvements with both the Intona and the RUR. Larry, what's the reasoning here?

 

 

With the improvements further upstream, I would think it more important then ever to listen to the baseline without the Intona and RUR.

 

Then I would add the Intona and RUR back, but with the RUR powered by a second LPS-1 instead of an el-cheapo. Of course the el-cheapo is a perfect supply for the LPS-1.

 

Then I suspect you will done with your hardware upgrades for a while.

 

Larry

[lmitche]

Anyone here knows about the min/max input voltage TP-Link MC110?

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

Isn't it 5 to 9 volts like the other boxes in the line?

[lmitche]

Thanks Imitche! I have'nt asked TP-Link so I asked here first if someone knows for sure. I want to find the best possible battery pack for the downstream FMC...gladly without any voltage regulator at all.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

Confirmed

 

http://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/cat-43_MC110CS.html

[lmitche]

Indeed. I'm working on getting some loaner equipment to try this out!

You could also use a Y power cable from the LPS1 to both the RUR and a usb power injector into the DAC.

 

 

This takes the RUR regulator out of the current flow for the DAC and should lower the temperature. I did the same thing here with another device and it has worked well lowering heat and improving sound quality.

 

A third lps1 may be better for the DAC, so I am testing this later in the week with a friend.

[lmitche]

I think of an NAA as a physical and software layer thing.

 

However with an NAA you have to effectively double the effort for a DIY solution as you now have two PC's to isolate and two OSes to tweak. You can do these things once and get the same or better results.

 

Anyway, any isolation solution applies to an NAA platform equally as well.

[lmitche]

There are different ways to do thing. The way I isolate my PC & NAA is with fiber. Both have x520 cards -- the advantage is that my NAA - an Asrock Q1900M is also discless and the NIC handles the iSCSI boot. I don't do anything else special in the PC -- the NAA does have LPS.

Hi Jabber, yes different ways for sure. I remember your configuration. You make my point.

 

Where is your music stored? On a NAS?