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Not enough consumer demand for hi-res (Cookie Marenco)


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I've been listening to Jenna Mammima - Close Your Eyes -- it's really amazing. I love Track 5: Wicked Game, also Track 1 and others but the quality of the recording is exceptional - the air around the instruments, soundstage etc.

 

I understand this is sourced from 2" tape, so how much of the quality is due to the recording technique, and how much due to mastering? ... what I am getting at, if you remastered say: Joan Baez/Joni Mitchell etc. I think the result would be amazing. Possible?

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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I'd also question the belief that it's the customer's "right" to rip a copy protected encoded SACD, as it is with a CD, or CD layer. AFAIK, that's not been legally tested, and given the very small numbers involved, probably never will be. But I'll share with you that ripping the DSD layer is counter to both the intent of the physical format, and a primary reason that labels pay 3X the cost of manufacture over a CD to protect their work product.

 

Tom

 

Hi Tom,

 

In Germany it is legal to rip CDs and other media for personal use, backup, interoperability. It is also legally admissible to circumvent copy protection schemes for the same reason (but the tools cannot be shared). So I am acting (in Germany) 100% within my legal rights. I would infringe if I resold my SACDs or shared the tracks outside my immediate family and closest circle of friends (the latter part is vague in the law and has never been properly tested, however I keep the files for myself).

 

It is my understanding that performing the same process in the UK or in the US could be illegal. But I am lucky to live in a country that still has some reasonable parts in its copyright laws.

 

Roberto

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

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I am not sure exactly what you are saying but the mass market/top 200 market won't get high resolution because the proportion of their customers who care is tiny compared to the overall size of their market. OTOH, hirez (and MCH) have made a bigger dent in the tiny classical market because, I believe, those of use who care represent a larger minority.

 

Kal, the consumer didn’t like the quality of audio in their cars and car companies improved the sound in cars. So I disagree the average consumer doesn’t care about sound. With average commute times in the United States about 51 minutes round trip people wanted better sound in their cars and have gotten it.

 

As for hi-res, I’m willing to listen to arguments that it would make the average person’s pop music better if you can get around the following quote from Bill Low “The difference between good and bad hi-fi is how long it takes before one gets tired.” The average consumer seems to know that the resolution possible from a CD is greater than they can listen to for long period without getting tired.

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I've been listening to Jenna Mammima - Close Your Eyes -- it's really amazing. I love Track 5: Wicked Game, also Track 1 and others but the quality of the recording is exceptional - the air around the instruments, soundstage etc.

 

I understand this is sourced from 2" tape, so how much of the quality is due to the recording technique, and how much due to mastering? ... what I am getting at, if you remastered say: Joan Baez/Joni Mitchell etc. I think the result would be amazing. Possible?

 

Thank you for the wonderful review of Close Your Eyes! I've reposted at our Blue Coast Records Facebook page so that Jenna can see it. She'll be thrilled!

 

Much of the album was recorded to 2" (the larger ensemble pieces) and the others to DSD. All were remixed to DSD256. To answer your questions, the sound comes mostly from recording techniques and great performances. We did the mastering in our studios as well and no changes were made to the original stereo mixes except for volume on one song.

 

I would love to have an opportunity to remix Joni Mitchell's music for the audiophile audience. In our restoration activities, we've had the opportunity to here the 2" of classics from the Tubes, Thomas Dolby (She Blinded Me with Science was an amazing adventure) and recently Third Eye Blind masters. Unfortunately, due to label contracts, we were not able to remix and release these gems. Maybe one day.

 

Thank you again for your posting a review!

 

Cookie Marenco

Blue Coast Records

Cookie Marenco[br]founder and producer[br]Blue Coast Records[br]http://www.bluecoastrecords.com/

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In my house it is permissible to "rip" CDs and other media so that I can listen to the music

 

Maybe you should check the legality of ripping/copying in the country you live.

 

While it's the extreme interpretation, here's the RIAA's view:

 

https://www.riaa.com/resources-learning/about-piracy/

 

Within that link is a reference to the only point I've raised: copying/ripping the DSD layer of an SACD:

 

"The owners of copyrighted music have the right to use protection technology to allow or prevent copying."

 

I apologize for my off-topic response in this thread.

 

Tom

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Great thread here, and I have enjoyed the discussion. I wanted to offer a couple things that might point us to the root cause for the low demand.

 

I think that if we set price/genre/format aside for a moment and look to our lifestyles, there is a good point to be made. Chris (CA) made a very good point earlier that Hi Res would fly off the shelf if the value was as evident to all as the difference between SD/HD TV. In 2016 nobody would ever consider buying a SD only TV. But how do we get there? I would contend that we have an adult generation emerging that has only known music from white ear buds. Going to a concert includes taking a low res video of your favorite song instead of listening to it. As Cookie mentioned, in the mass music business, a lot of music is produced in the bedroom with samples of low res samples looped. Acoustic instruments are often hard to find in music.

 

My point - We simply do not know what real instruments and music sound like. Of course, this CA audience yearns for that and we love it whether it's Brahms, Prince, or Joshua Redman. The lifestyle of most music consumers does not lend itself towards consuming music in a way that emphasizes quality and the exposure to live music in a focused experience has been diminished. The kids focused on concert bands, chorus, drum corps, and youth orchestra get it. They get it because they are playing instruments, know what they sound like, and have a musical vocabulary. We need to cultivate the music consumption experience for them in a way that gives an alternative to the iphone/ear pod experience. That's our next generation.

 

All the best with your business Cookie (I love Cecile also!!, Mack Avenue does a great job and are certainly a common ally in this discussion)

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Great thread here, and I have enjoyed the discussion. I wanted to offer a couple things that might point us to the root cause for the low demand.

 

I think that if we set price/genre/format aside for a moment and look to our lifestyles, there is a good point to be made. Chris (CA) made a very good point earlier that Hi Res would fly off the shelf if the value was as evident to all as the difference between SD/HD TV. In 2016 nobody would ever consider buying a SD only TV. But how do we get there? I would contend that we have an adult generation emerging that has only known music from white ear buds. Going to a concert includes taking a low res video of your favorite song instead of listening to it. As Cookie mentioned, in the mass music business, a lot of music is produced in the bedroom with samples of low res samples looped. Acoustic instruments are often hard to find in music.

 

My point - We simply do not know what real instruments and music sound like. Of course, this CA audience yearns for that and we love it whether it's Brahms, Prince, or Joshua Redman. The lifestyle of most music consumers does not lend itself towards consuming music in a way that emphasizes quality and the exposure to live music in a focused experience has been diminished. The kids focused on concert bands, chorus, drum corps, and youth orchestra get it. They get it because they are playing instruments, know what they sound like, and have a musical vocabulary. We need to cultivate the music consumption experience for them in a way that gives an alternative to the iphone/ear pod experience. That's our next generation.

 

All the best with your business Cookie (I love Cecile also!!, Mack Avenue does a great job and are certainly a common ally in this discussion)

I am not singling you out. But I have read variations on this set of ideas for about 35 years. I don't think it is at all correct. It seems like it makes good sense to me too. But I don't think this is the reason.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Computer Audiophile mobile app

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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Great thread here, and I have enjoyed the discussion. I wanted to offer a couple things that might point us to the root cause for the low demand.

 

I think that if we set price/genre/format aside for a moment and look to our lifestyles, there is a good point to be made. Chris (CA) made a very good point earlier that Hi Res would fly off the shelf if the value was as evident to all as the difference between SD/HD TV. In 2016 nobody would ever consider buying a SD only TV. But how do we get there? I would contend that we have an adult generation emerging that has only known music from white ear buds. Going to a concert includes taking a low res video of your favorite song instead of listening to it. As Cookie mentioned, in the mass music business, a lot of music is produced in the bedroom with samples of low res samples looped. Acoustic instruments are often hard to find in music.

 

My point - We simply do not know what real instruments and music sound like. Of course, this CA audience yearns for that and we love it whether it's Brahms, Prince, or Joshua Redman. The lifestyle of most music consumers does not lend itself towards consuming music in a way that emphasizes quality and the exposure to live music in a focused experience has been diminished. The kids focused on concert bands, chorus, drum corps, and youth orchestra get it. They get it because they are playing instruments, know what they sound like, and have a musical vocabulary. We need to cultivate the music consumption experience for them in a way that gives an alternative to the iphone/ear pod experience. That's our next generation.

 

All the best with your business Cookie (I love Cecile also!!, Mack Avenue does a great job and are certainly a common ally in this discussion)

 

Thank you!

Cookie Marenco

Blue Coast Records

Cookie Marenco[br]founder and producer[br]Blue Coast Records[br]http://www.bluecoastrecords.com/

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