Best (reasonable) CD Ripping Practice

[mansr]

Isn't it true that the data is transferred using a usb protocol, whether between the SuperDrive to my hard drive or from my hard drive to my DAC. If one accepts the debatable premise that various constructions of USB cable can influence the sonic picture, and that various file transfer protocols may have inherent noise, it may follow that the jitterbug may also influence the rip...dunno.

If one accepts that premise, one ought also believe that using fancy cables should give better weapons in games or better finances in spreadsheets.

[sandyk]

If one accepts that premise, one ought also believe that using fancy cables should give better weapons in games or better finances in spreadsheets.

 

At least you haven't come up with the usual crap, about planes falling out of the sky etc.

[wdw]

If one accepts that premise, one ought also believe that using fancy cables should give better weapons in games or better finances in spreadsheets.

 

No not at all...but since we tend to trust visual acuity over aural, it should yield cleaner video. I asked a pro photographer friend of mine if they are involved in any of this crazy talk about data fidelity but he looked at me like I was nuts.

[ElviaCaprice]

Isn't it true that the data is transferred using a usb protocol, whether between the SuperDrive to my hard drive or from my hard drive to my DAC. If one accepts the debatable premise that various constructions of USB cable can influence the sonic picture, and that various file transfer protocols may have inherent noise, it may follow that the jitterbug may also influence the rip...dunno.

 

It's not the data that is being changed. It's the interferences that stream with the data and effect the DAC.

When you copy data, those interferences get dropped. Just like if you copy to memory and then stream.

[sandyk]

When you copy data, those interferences get dropped. Just like if you copy to memory and then stream

 

Dream on !

According to your reasoning, if you copied your music data to another CD-R , the new copy should sound identical to the original.

Highly trained ears such as Cookie Marenco's say otherwise !

The comparison CD-Rs that Dennis is sitting on will say otherwise too, just as those sent to Martin Colloms for evaluation did too. Even the different types of CD-R supplied sounded different too,

with the expensive MAM-A with exactly the same binary content sounding quite a bit better than the brand name supermarket type when Martin evaluated them.

[ElviaCaprice]

Dream on !

According to your reasoning, if you copied your music data to another CD-R , the new copy should sound identical to the original.

Highly trained ears such as Cookie Marenco's say otherwise !

The comparison CD-Rs that Dennis is sitting on will say otherwise too, just as those sent to Martin Colloms for evaluation did too. Even the different types of CD-R sounded different too,

with the expensive MAM-A sounding quite a bit better than the brand name supermarket type.

 

Sounding??? Again your confusing streaming with data transfer. When will you ever get it??

Yes, the data would be exactly the same. As a data transfer and you verify with checksums. But streaming from a CD is far different than streaming from a hard drive.

[plissken]

Isn't it true that the data is transferred using a usb protocol, whether between the SuperDrive to my hard drive or from my hard drive to my DAC. If one accepts the debatable premise that various constructions of USB cable can influence the sonic picture, and that various file transfer protocols may have inherent noise, it may follow that the jitterbug may also influence the rip...dunno.

 

Just so I'm clear:

 

Using the jitterbug on USB DVD/CD-R drive will produce an identical MD5 rip vs no jitterbug and the rip with the jitterbug will sound better?

 

Does this also apply to the Regen also?

[kumakuma]

Dream on !

According to your reasoning, if you copied your music data to another CD-R , the new copy should sound identical to the original.

Highly trained ears such as Cookie Marenco's say otherwise !

The comparison CD-Rs that Dennis is sitting on will say otherwise too, just as those sent to Martin Colloms for evaluation did too. Even the different types of CD-R sounded different too,

with the expensive MAM-A with exactly the same binary content sounding quite a bit better than the brand name supermarket type when Martin evaluated them.

 

Different CD-Rs can sound different when played in a CD player for any number of reasons that have nothing to do with the underlying data itself.

[sandyk]

Sounding??? Again your confusing streaming with data transfer. When will you ever get it??

Yes, the data would be exactly the same. As a data transfer and you verify with checksums.

 

No, it's you that don't get it .

The files on the comparison CD-R were burned from 2 different INTERNAL locations using system memory and EAC !

They weren't obtained by streaming, and the .md5 checksums for both versions, on both types of CD-R media are identical as verified by ripping to HDD/SSD where some differences are still audible, despite being played from the same folder, and using System Memory for playback.

[ElviaCaprice]

Different CD-Rs can sound different when played in a CD player for any number of reasons that have nothing to do with the underlying data itself.

 

exactly

[wdw]

Just so I'm clear:

 

Using the jitterbug on USB DVD/CD-R drive will produce an identical MD5 rip vs no jitterbug and the rip with the jitterbug will sound better?

 

Does this also apply to the Regen also?

Seriously, dunno...I haven't done anymore than try a few rips: mac using iTunes, mac using dBPowerAmp, then dB using a jitterbug. Totally subjective response, first order listening only and the third option seemed to sound better...more to heaven and earth than is imagined....no idea about the Regen

[sandyk]

Different CD-Rs can sound different when played in a CD player for any number of reasons that have nothing to do with the underlying data itself.

 

That is correct, and despite identical binary data being exported via SPDIF from the correctly functioning player when used as a transport.

In this case I am talking about pairs of tracks on the SAME CD-R sounding different, yet having identical check sums when ripped to HDD/SSD again.

I guess that like Admin, you wouldn't accept or believe the results of the comparisons either if I offered to provide them ?

Don't want to know , do you, because it would challenge many of the things you have been taught to accept as being 100% correct ? Bury your head in the sand, and hope that these reports that are now coming from other members too, will all go away ?

[kumakuma]

In this case I am talking about pairs of tracks on the SAME CD-R sounding different, yet having identical check sums when ripped to HDD/SSD again.

 

That isn't what you said in the post I responded to:

 

According to your reasoning, if you copied your music data to another CD-R , the new copy should sound identical to the original. Highly trained ears such as Cookie Marenco's say otherwise !

[One and a half]

Another CD ripping thread in chaos caused by sandyk, pushing his own barrow, yet again. Bickering right from the beginning. You know what, I might just start my own thread on CD ripping and have any posts by sandyk thrown in the bin as soon as they are posted, Admin, is this possible?

[One and a half]

Isn't it true that the data is transferred using a usb protocol, whether between the SuperDrive to my hard drive or from my hard drive to my DAC. If one accepts the debatable premise that various constructions of USB cable can influence the sonic picture, and that various file transfer protocols may have inherent noise, it may follow that the jitterbug may also influence the rip...dunno.

 

In the case of a portable drive, usually USB is used as a transport to move ripped data from the CD to say a hard drive. The data integrity between the two means that the data arrives on the hard disk in much the same manner, given astronomical odds that there's an error and checking for that is what checksums are all about. Adding a jitterbug to the USB trasnport may clean up some noise that resides on the serial data, but it's ignored by the storage medium.

Playing back that same data to the DAC is another kettle of fish, where the serial data is affected by noise and data integrity in the DAC's receiver, and yes USB cables do make a difference in that regard.

[sandyk]

That isn't what you said in the post I responded to:

 

The fact remains that you, just like 1 1/2 and several others ,don't want to know, even when proof is offered for their evaluation. Neither has anybody even expressed an interest in seeing reports from a highly experienced EE and technical writer who has far more world recognised experience in this area than any member of this forum.

What I have posted is completely on topic AND verifiable by others !

Perhaps 1 1/2 should stick to AC mains related problems where he DOES actually know what he is talking about ? He is now advocating CENSORSHIP to silence those he doesn't agree with . Try using the IGNORE facility.

[plissken]

Seriously, dunno...I haven't done anymore than try a few rips: mac using iTunes, mac using dBPowerAmp, then dB using a jitterbug. Totally subjective response, first order listening only and the third option seemed to sound better...more to heaven and earth than is imagined....no idea about the Regen

 

Can you zip up these files and put them on drop box? Or could I make a google drive account available to you? That way I could at least MD5 them or use the Windows command line utility 'File Comp'.

 

I would take a guess that the files won't be identical with the way you are ripping them.

[wdw]

The fact remains that you, just like 1 1/2 and several others ,don't want to know, even when proof is offered for their evaluation. Neither has anybody even expressed an interest in seeing reports from a highly experienced EE and technical writer who has far more world recognised experience in this area than any member of this forum.

What I have posted is completely on topic AND verifiable by others !

Perhaps 1 1/2 should stick to AC mains related problems where he DOES actually know what he is talking about ? He is now advocating CENSORSHIP to silence those he doesn't agree with . Try using the IGNORE facility.

Sandyk

A tad over the top....as Chris has said, we're not killing Klingon babies, or words to that effect....relax,

Best

[wdw]

Can you zip up these files and put them on drop box? Or could I make a google drive account available to you? That way I could at least MD5 them or use the Windows command line utility 'File Comp'.

 

I would take a guess that the files won't be identical with the way you are ripping them.

Sure...would be interesting to get your review. Let me assemble a dropbox. Best wdw

[The Computer Audiophile]

@sandyk - I've received requests to remove your posts from this thread. I'm going to leave them alone for now, but I'd like you to tone it down a bit. You've made your statements. There's nothing else to say.

 

P.S. This isn't debate club and you don't have to get the last word.

 

P.P.S. I'm not sure why you think nobody wants to know the "truth" about this. We all want the best sound. Whatever helps achieve that, we are all ears.

[sandyk]

Sandyk

A tad over the top....as Chris has said, we're not killing Klingon babies, or words to that effect....relax,

Best

 

Why don't you try listening to those files you reported hearing differences with under non sighted conditions, and if you do hear repeatable differences, then see if the binary data is still identical or not ?

2 other posters in this thread have already independently challenged the notion that provided the checksums are identical, then nothing else matters. I am not the only one that some members would like to silence, but manage to silence me, and very few infrequent posters would dare to voice an opinion that goes against the mainstream.

You only need to look at how people who dare to report hearing differences between various cables get jumped on from a great height, which then causes others to think twice before saying something similar.

[sandyk]

@sandyk - I've received requests to remove your posts from this thread. I'm going to leave them alone for now, but I'd like you to tone it down a bit. You've made your statements. There's nothing else to say.

 

P.S. This isn't debate club and you don't have to get the last word.

 

P.P.S. I'm not sure why you think nobody wants to know the "truth" about this. We all want the best sound. Whatever helps achieve that, we are all ears.

 

Chris

Then why aren't you in the least interested in seeing the report by Martin Colloms about similar comparison CD-Rs that I went to the trouble of making available to USA members, but haven't yet been passed on ? The report should at least give further food for thought.

I have other more recent findings that will not see the light of day in this forum due to the hostility from a few members, where others could try similar for themselves to see if they can replicate my results.

Alex

[The Computer Audiophile]

Chris

Then why aren't you in the least interested in seeing the report by Martin Colloms about similar comparison CD-Rs that I went to the trouble of making available to USA members, but haven't yet been passed on ?

Alex

If it would make you happy, I'll take a look.

[kilroy]

Another CD ripping thread in chaos caused by sandyk, pushing his own barrow, yet again. Bickering right from the beginning. You know what, I might just start my own thread on CD ripping and have any posts by sandyk thrown in the bin as soon as they are posted, Admin, is this possible?

 

deleted

[YashN]

P.P.S. I'm not sure why you think nobody wants to know the "truth" about this. We all want the best sound. Whatever helps achieve that, we are all ears.

 

But then this is key, right?

 

Instead of that, we see many people here and elsewhere avoiding it altogether because it is contentious. And bashing Alex-sandyk because that's the easy way out of the conundrum and the cognitive dissonance when people have a shallow understanding.

 

So, all in all, glad that you want to give it a try, Chris

 

Actually, I mentioned in a couple of threads that what I believe is a 'proxy' for this effect is to try the BugHead player creator's 'Rewrite Data' software.

 

This is quite mind-boggling (as it was to me when I tried it although I'm a Systems Engineer myself): if you look at what the software does, by the description of its maker himself, it is not much different from just a file copy.

 

Same file contents, same checksum, same thing in the end right (as it should be, right ?, right?!)

 

Ah well....

 

So don't fall for the vocal minority, nor the vocal majority.

 

Nowadays, you can try odd things for yourself.

 

I'll never see Alex as someone who is blabbering just because 'he's everywhere' for the simple reason that I have tried things myself, heard things myself and have described probable causes for these (and not invented all by myself but based on what John Swenson has described).

 

You may not like that he is present several times in several threads saying something contentious (I also did notice that he was several places saying the same things). But that doesn't mean he's wrong, he may be pointing something less known to you (as are others).

 

Plus: you don't have to believe him at all. Try yourself.

 

Just try 'Rewrite Data', because that's the embryo of everything that is contentious with what Alex is saying, it's the same essence of contention.

 

Why 'Rewrite Data' is contentious: it is really a file copy at its core. So, what if you try to copy an audio file and play the fresh copy back, same file right?

 

Why BugHead is contentious: it uses different memory or memory type storage for playback and this affects the sound. Same file, right? Only avoiding cache memory and the effect is dramatic, to the extent you hear people breathing, moving their lips and moving their chairs before performing. Same file, right? Checksum the same, right? Bit-Perfect, right?

 

It's the same essence that you will find in the thread "Beyond Bit-Perfect" here.

 

Any time you find hidden D/A and A/D processes hiding in our 'digital' system which uses binary and 'digital' as shortcuts and there are real, tangible, auditory, effects based on electrical activity, there is a difference in SQ (now, potentially not in systems which are built impervious to these with proper grounding/isolation/clean power, etc... but that's still uncommon).