How much of your music do you actually listen to?

[89reksal]

I fall in the random play camp for all my listening. I only have one system and it's set up in the family room which is open to our kitchen. This means I'm rarely sitting by myself while listening to music so there's an element of compromise in what's listened to except during the rare times I'm listening alone. Random play seems to be the simplest way to achieve this compromise since the chance of a succession of songs coming up randomly that someone in the family really dislikes is pretty remote, although my wife may have a different opinion on that.

 

I use J River to create 100 song random playlists. I probably average 3 hours or so a day of listening this way. It may take 2 or 3 days to get through a playlist. With 50K plus songs, it could take up to 5 years or more before even playing 50k songs, not taking into account repeats of songs throughout that time. it's pretty easy to see that I'm lucky if I'm listening to 2 or 3% of my collection on a regular basis, if even that. That's kind of depressing when I actually write it out like this.

[Jud]

FWIW, the 2 new CDs are both rare Bonnie Raitt recordings. The Lost Broadcast was a radio concert played by her in 1972 for WMMR. It was held at & broadcast live from Sigma Sound Studios, which was one of the finest and most loved recording studios in the world for many years - and they recorded the concert! I can't wait to hear it when I get home tonight. The other disc is "Ultrasonic Studios 1972" - it's another live recording, this time with Lowell George and John Hammond (!!). The reviews suggest that this is a poor quality recording - but I'd listen with joy and rapture to anything played by that trio, even if I had to do it through a snorkel or a cardboard mailing tube.

 

WMMR (in Dave Herman days) and Lowell George are two of my favorite musical subjects.

[Jud]

Jud,

 

As we are of similar age and "suffer" from the same sleep apnea thing, one recommendation is to ensure that you, assuming your doctor clears or has cleared you is a very strenuous exercise regimen. While I have always exercised relatively vigorously, for the last 8 years I have been exercising using shorter interval sessions but extremely high intensity and the weight I lost is a healthier weight loss and my sleep is much better with much less episodes of apnea and snoring.

 

 

I'm way out of shape, which I'm quite certain contributes to the sleep apnea. I'm really looking forward to moving, having gotten my employer to agree to my working from home in the new location. This will save two-plus hours every workday now spent sitting in a car on my daily commute. I've also ordered a sit-stand desk that should arrive next month, which should help during working hours.

 

I've now got to look for a gym in the new location, or decent home exercise equipment, or both.

[fragoulisnaval]

Ι hear approximately two hours a day and usually I listen to three albums per week so as to actually get a glimpse of what the artist intended to do with each album

[semente]

Yes, I really do feel the squeeze in available listening time from a practical point of view.

 

Earlier this year my wife persuaded me to get a test and I was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea. (I was blissfully unaware of not breathing for up to 70 second periods, being asleep at the time; and I thought feeling sleepy in the afternoon was just common to everyone.) I got a CPAP machine and feel much better. Along with getting more restful sleep, I also get more hours of sleep. The CPAP has an app that scores you on your sleep, and to get the full 100 score you've got to use it at least 7 hours a night. I've become pretty assiduous about getting that 7 hours, while fully realizing it's a little ludicrous allowing a number on an app to assume so much importance. Of course it's for my own benefit. As I get up at 4 am workdays, that means getting to bed at 9, so activities like listening to music stop at around 8:30-8:40. It's usually not until 7:30-8 that I'm done with dinner, playing with the dog, watching a TV show with my wife, etc., so it doesn't leave a lot of time.

 

So your 6 or 7 hours probably beats me. I'm guessing that means I might listen to, in round numbers, 20 hours of music a month. If my collection holds about 30 days' worth, that's 720 hours, so 20 hours is a little less than 3% of my computerized collection. If we take a rough estimate that perhaps 5%-10% of my total music collection is computerized (about 5-10% of my CDs, none of my LPs, all of my downloads), that's .15-.3% of my total collection I hear each month, or between 1.8-3.6% per year. And that's only if all the songs I played were different, which isn't the case.

 

Anyone else want to work this out on an hours-per-week basis and see what they come up with?

 

4am is tough enough already and apnea on top of that.

Great that you're sleeping well now.

I should also look into it but the perspective of a surgical intervention is putting me off...

 

R

[Jud]

4am is tough enough already and apnea on top of that.

Great that you're sleeping well now.

I should also look into it but the perspective of a surgical intervention is putting me off...

 

R

 

Are you meaning that you have had surgery and that gives you concern about consulting a doctor again, or that you're worried that a recommendation for surgery might be a possibility?

 

Bluesman will know more, but my impression is that a CPAP unit is a far more common recommendation these days.

 

In any case, here's food for thought: Blood oxygen level while sleeping ought to be in the nineties, and below 87% is considered unsafe. Mine was around 83%. That can't be good for brain cells. My mother had dementia the last dozen years of her life, and there's no good reason to elevate the risk of an outcome like that.

[Priaptor]

I'm way out of shape, which I'm quite certain contributes to the sleep apnea. I'm really looking forward to moving, having gotten my employer to agree to my working from home in the new location. This will save two-plus hours every workday now spent sitting in a car on my daily commute. I've also ordered a sit-stand desk that should arrive next month, which should help during working hours.

 

I've now got to look for a gym in the new location, or decent home exercise equipment, or both.

 

You will get lots of recommendations from different people and I will be one of them. I have always built or had gyms in my homes and have had all types of equipment of varying expense. Of course I would recommend you first get the OK from your doctor. The ultimate goal of high intensity interval exercise is to increase your stroke volume (blood volume per beat) to its maximum capability before your increase in heart rate kicks in to make up the difference for your oxygen needs. It is obviously not that simple and most people's physiology varies to a point, but, as a general rule this is what you want for heart healthy exercise for the long term.

 

At our age, running doesn't cut it. I gave it up almost two years ago as it destroyed my right hip. It is high impact. Without starting a fight with the "long distance" runners who basically jog, studies have shown, that long distances can in some cases hurt both peripheral and cardiac muscle, joints and as we know can take up tremendous amounts of time. Those who love it would never do without it. Cyclists love it and get great exercise and can achieve great interval training and those studied have some of the best stroke volumes around. However, to get there, it can be hard on our old joints and perineal regions. You can get great interval training from some of these new elliptical type trainers, that are a cross between elliptical, stair stepping and running on air, such as the Precor AMT but it too I have found can place a strain on the joints. What I have found after all these years, after I hurt my hip, was rowing. I am hooked. It gives the best whole body workout I have ever done, uses almost all core muscles, has minimum stress on joints and is cheap and easy to store. I love it so much that I am ordering a scull for my "retirement home" in MT which is on a lake. I would recommend the WaterRower, although the "standard" is the Concept C2. I have both, the former in FL and the latter in MT and both give a great workout. I augment this with dynamic weight training and various resistance bands, the latter also very cheap. So literally for less than 1K you can get what I consider the best indoor exercise equipment available, a rower and variable resistance bands (recommend the red, blue and black). In my best days of running my resting heart rate was 54-58 whereas now it is 46-50. As I said above, this is indicative of more efficient stroke volume (SV) to meet your 02 needs rather than a higher heart rate.

 

Lastly the endorphin kick from these high intensity exercise programs is awesome. I like it better than my favorite Vodka

[coot]

You folks who "can't wait to retire so I'll have time to listen more" I have one word: "fuggetaboutit". You won't. You'll have more time indeed, but you'll be busy traveling and fixing things around the house, or indeed building and/or moving. The list goes on and on more than you ever imagined. Retirement is a busy time but it's the most fun you ever had in your life!

[realhifi]

I personally listen to new music more than anything else. I'm always looking for a new band or a new release from an old favorite. I have my albums sorted by year in descending order so the newest stuff it always at the top of the list. However I do go back and listen to a few select albums frequently.

 

 

Amen. New music, mo music.

[Priaptor]

You folks who "can't wait to retire so I'll have time to listen more" I have one word: "fuggetaboutit". You won't. You'll have more time indeed, but you'll be busy traveling and fixing things around the house, or indeed building and/or moving. The list goes on and on more than you ever imagined. Retirement is a busy time but it's the most fun you ever had in your life!

 

I tried retirement for 4 months. I drive my wife crazy, my dogs crazy and me crazy. I now found the right balance between work and time off.

 

My way is not for everyone but the life of the retiree I don't think would work for me. I am almost 64 and when I go to the movies (very rarely) I just can't go the "senior" route and definitely refuse the early bird and senior specials in restaurants.

 

I know you can't take it to the grave BUT I think if I retire I would head for the grave a lot sooner.

 

That is just me

[Jud]

You folks who "can't wait to retire so I'll have time to listen more" I have one word: "fuggetaboutit". You won't. You'll have more time indeed, but you'll be busy traveling and fixing things around the house, or indeed building and/or moving. The list goes on and on more than you ever imagined. Retirement is a busy time but it's the most fun you ever had in your life!

 

My wife is retiring when we move, but I'll need to work a few more years to keep her in the style to which she wishes to become accustomed.

 

We'd like to do some traveling, particularly after I retire. Fixing (or maintaining) things, hopefully quite a bit less than currently. First, where we're moving to has xeriscaping ordinances and covenants, so no lawn mowing! Water use is controlled, so we'll be using all desert-adapted plants - little or no watering! Such plants are for the most part slow growing, so little to no landscape maintenance! Regarding the home itself, we by sheer luck happened on the builder with perhaps the best reputation for quality in the area we are moving to. He lives barely 3 miles from the building site, has been building in the area for over 40 years, and is the former chair of the state Green Building Council. (I will always remember a conversation I had about 30 years ago with a "green" architect. He asked me "What do you think is the most important factor in building a green home?" After I went through a litany of stuff like days of sunshine, location, etc., all of which he shook his head at, he said: "Quality of construction!") The builder's been great about advising us regarding reliability and life expectancy for various home systems. The home is being designed to help minimize maintenance, from LED bulbs down to things like a "snail shower" so there are no shower doors to clean or shower curtains to replace.

 

So yes, I am (perhaps naively) hoping to have more time for both exercise and listening to music.

[bluesman]

Bluesman will know more, but my impression is that a CPAP unit is a far more common recommendation these days.

I appreciate the confidence, Jud - but free advice is usually worth almost what it costs, and no one wants to consider the OSA management that is best supported by sound evidence. Interestingly enough, this is of great importance to audiophiles because there are strong links between OSA and hearing loss (see below). Rather than be the bad guy yet again, I'll offer this excellent summary from Harvard Health Publications about current management methods - it presents the latest recommendations from the American College of Physicians, which start with

 

"...weight loss for people who are overweight and obese. The link between excess weight and sleep apnea is well established. People who are overweight have extra tissue in the back of their throat, which can fall down over the airway and block the flow of air into the lungs while they sleep. Though losing weight is easier said than done, it can yield real results. 'If we can get people to lose weight, it would make both sleep apnea and other health problems [such as heart disease] go away,' says Dr. Epstein. Losing just 10% of body weight can have a big effect on sleep apnea symptoms. In some cases, losing a significant amount of weight can even cure the condition."

 

"CPAP is typically the first-line treatment for people with sleep apnea, because weight loss can be so hard to achieve."

 

I'm a facial plastic surgeon who is certified by the American Board of Otolaryngology, so I've operated on many OSA patients although I did not treat it. My team conducted a prospective study in our Patient Testing Center that I designed to validate a commonly used OSA screening tool as a risk predictor for major surgical complications - here's a link to the PubMed abstract. We showed that people who are at high risk for having OSA have a 20% incidence of major cardiorespiratory complications during and after surgery, while those scoring "low" have a 1% risk (p=0.001). All patients with complications were ASA class 3 (which means significant medical compromise using the American Society of Anesthesiologists' assessment tools). One of our most significant findings was that "[o]bese patients...had a higher rate of postoperative complications (17.6% vs 5.9%; P = .04)" - this is no joke.

 

CA'ers really should take this seriously, especially if you value your hearing and want to be able to enjoy all the dormant music waiting in your closet or hard drive per this thread. Studies show a clear association between OSA and hearing loss! It may come as a surprise, but obesity in isolation carries a significantly higher than normal risk of hearing loss. A recently published study on 60,000 people [Relationship Between Obesity and hearing Loss. Kim et al. Acta Otolaryngol. 2016 Oct;136(10):1046-50] found that the odds ratio for developing hearing loss in the obese group compared to the normal group was 1.312 (i.e. there's a 30% greater risk of developing hearing loss if you're obese). Another study (done at Harvard on 68,000 nurses over 20 years) showed a 17% increase in development of hearing loss in those with BMIs between 30 and 34 and a 25% increase in those with BMIs of 40 or over (compared to those with BMIs of 25 or less).

 

Overall, the evidence is strong enough that if I were overweight (my BMI is 21.6, so it's easy for me to say), I'd do something about it yesterday to maintain the lowest risk of losing my hearing as well as having a heart attack or stroke etc.

[Bob Stern]

Jud & Priaptor:

 

If you're interested to see in more detail what apnea events you're having during the night to help you learn what measures reduce their incidence, the donation-ware program "SleepyHead" displays graphs of the data stored on the SD memory card of your CPAP machine.

 

It seems you're both lucky enough to not have any CPAP adaptation issues. For those who do, two great discussion forums are:

http://www.apneaboard.com

http://www.cpaptalk.com/

 

I started CPAP 5 weeks ago. It's definitely improved my mental focus, but it's been a real struggle with masks that either leak or injure my nose, and with sleep interruptions typically three times nightly. I solved the first problem but not the second.

 

I suppose any further discussion should be offline to avoid hijacking this thread.

[ElviaCaprice]

"How much of your music do you actually listen to?" Just one song at a time.

 

All neatly organized and accessible thru JRiver on one hard drive. I cull my library from time to time if I don't ever listen to certain artists, they are relegated to the B-library or non active. Keeping your library up to date and organized is very important. Often during listening sessions I do just that.

 

I could never go back to actually playing CD's or Vinyl for listening experiences. What for? To me these physical mediums are just that and get sold back onto the open market. Also I never subscribe to online services. What for? 80 percent of my collection wouldn't even be available in a service like Tidal. I rarely purchase music these days. Maybe one CD this past year. But gain tons of old obscure gems from public blogs. All my music is lossless. I never listen to lossy. Life is too short to waste on subpar formats.

[tmtomh]

I might be in the minority here because my music collection is relatively small, which means that over the course of, say, two years, I listen to well over 80% of it, maybe even more than 90%.

 

I have about 300 discs (mostly CDs, with maybe 15% SACDs and DVD-As). I've ripped every CD and DVD-A, and maybe 1/3 of my SACDs, for backup/archive purposes, and about 2/3 of them are in my iTunes library. The rest of my iTunes library, which totals about 7500 songs, is stuff I don't own on disc, and I think I listen to that stuff at about the same rate as the discs - 80-90% of it listened to at least once over the course of a year or two.

 

I have only about a dozen or a dozen and a half LPs, and most of those are part of Super Deluxe or vinyl+digital disc packages - in other words, I don't have any music on vinyl that I don't also have in some digital format. So while I don't listen to any of the LPs themselves, I do listen to the songs from those LPs.

 

I'm fortunate to be able to listen to music through my primary stereo for at least a little while 6 or 7 days a week for much of the year, and at least 5 days a week when work gets really busy. And 3-4 days a week I can get a little listening time in via my iPhone in my car stereo.

[semente]

Are you meaning that you have had surgery and that gives you concern about consulting a doctor again, or that you're worried that a recommendation for surgery might be a possibility?

 

Bluesman will know more, but my impression is that a CPAP unit is a far more common recommendation these days.

 

In any case, here's food for thought: Blood oxygen level while sleeping ought to be in the nineties, and below 87% is considered unsafe. Mine was around 83%. That can't be good for brain cells. My mother had dementia the last dozen years of her life, and there's no good reason to elevate the risk of an outcome like that.

I haven't had surgery... Yet.

But I've heard of a few horror stories which are putting me off, all first hand.

 

My problem is not overweight (I have a BMI of 20.6); my nasal septum is misaligned.

 

R

[mocenigo]

About 4.5K discs, of which 300 are SACDs. Almost all classical music, from Perotinus to van der Aa. I have ripped all the SACDs (using a PS3 and a Pioneer 170) and I have ripped about 450 CDs to lossless and about 600 to MP3/AAC (320kbps), the latter when I was only concerned about getting them onto my iPhone.

 

Now I have a 2 year plan to rip everything and a much longer term plan to listen to it all with my Raspberry Pi feeding a Gustard DAC.

 

I found a lot of discs that I listened just once. I am probably giving them away.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Jud]

I haven't had surgery... Yet.

But I've heard of a few horror stories which are putting me off, all first hand.

 

My problem is not overweight (I have a BMI of 20.6); my nasal septum is misaligned.

 

R

 

Ah, got it.

[Sal1950]

About 6 years ago I ripped all my CD's and vinyl to my computer as the physical bulk wouldn't have been viable in my new retirement home. Now between Clementine media player access of those files and my Spotify subscription I'm in love with the convenience. Being able to instantly access just about anything I could want from the comfort of my recliner, using a Andriod tablet remote, has me totally and irreversibly spoiled beyond any thought of ever going back.

 

I try to listen fairly closely each night for a couple hours before bed, most often nodding off while doing so. I do put playing the music I love at a much higher priority than worrying about it's playback quality.

I probably listen to around 15% of my home library on a regular basis. Maybe growing ever less as my use of Spotify increases, and for whatever reason I tend to look mainly to the familiar and most loved music of my life. I don't think I've added more than a couple dozen albums from new-unfamiliar artists in many a year. The sheer volume of music that I love, created over and before my lifetime, leaves little room/time/desire to investigate the unknown.

[beerandmusic]

people spend more time reading/writing on this forum than they spend time in their listening chair attentively listening to music....smile

[TubeLover]

I haven't had surgery... Yet.

But I've heard of a few horror stories which are putting me off, all first hand.

 

My problem is not overweight (I have a BMI of 20.6); my nasal septum is misaligned.

 

R

 

I understand your concern about the surgery. My best friend of over 30 years had it done, and it went badly enough that it and some additional factors contributed to leading to his suicide. Certainly, that has to be a worst possible case scenario, but all I know is that I lost my dearest friend. And he may have been tired due to sleep apnea, but he led a happy, full life before struggling trying to live with using a CPAP, eventually, the surgery, and what came after.

 

JC

[TubeLover]

 

"...weight loss for people who are overweight and obese. The link between excess weight and sleep apnea is well established. People who are overweight have extra tissue in the back of their throat, which can fall down over the airway and block the flow of air into the lungs while they sleep. Though losing weight is easier said than done, it can yield real results. 'If we can get people to lose weight, it would make both sleep apnea and other health problems [such as heart disease] go away,' says Dr. Epstein. Losing just 10% of body weight can have a big effect on sleep apnea symptoms. In some cases, losing a significant amount of weight can even cure the condition."

 

Overall, the evidence is strong enough that if I were overweight (my BMI is 21.6, so it's easy for me to say), I'd do something about it yesterday to maintain the lowest risk of losing my hearing as well as having a heart attack or stroke etc.

 

Bluesman, I have no doubt that everything you are putting out there is well considered, and good advice from someone who has the necessary knowledge. I don't even know if I have sleep apnea, but I may (an eye surgery that had a later difficulty may well be contributing to the tiredness though, per my surgeon). I do fit the bill of most of the elements that lead to sleep apnea. According to my ex fiance, I didn't have it when we were together, but that was some years ago and some things have changed. I do snore loudly (but that is a trait associated with all of the males in my line and none had/have sleep apnea. I'm not sure I honestly would want to know if I did have it, as I am certain I would not be able to sleep with a CPAP device, and would absolutely not consider surgery for reasons I noted in my previous post.

 

The key for me though, is dealing with the overweight element, which I realize is critical. About seven years ago, I went all out to eliminate that issue. I spent three years literally busting my ass to get back into good shape. My regimen consisted of two extremely intense spinning classes and six to eight hours of high level racquetball week. After thirty six months of that, and trying hard to eat well, I had dropped fifty pounds and was within ten pounds of my optimum weight and condition. Then everything blew up. I was first hit with Sciatica (for the first time ever) and went to rehab for that. Just as I was successfully completing that, I blew out a knee and had to have surgery. While recovering and rehabbing that, I was forced to have major eye surgery due to a problem that occurred related to the genetic shape of my eye. There was then a long recovery period from that. That was followed by my other knee giving out, and yet another major surgery, followed by recovery and very extended rehab. Finally, there was yet another major eye surgery, this one very serious, which had a complication during recovery. All in all, this added up to forced inactivity for almost four years and added 60 pounds back onto to my frame.

 

I've been back to spinning classes at least twice a week for the past twelve months. And while that has helped, it's not nearly enough. What I am truly struggling with now, is the fact that what has always gotten me through these struggles is competitive sports activity. I burned a ton of calories playing racquetball which was key to my last weight loss. Competition allows me to push myself far header that I would otherwise, and always has. Unfortunately, with my knees now limited, no high impact activities can be undertaken. In fact, I've been warned by my knee surgeon that I have only have so much left on these two knees, and that "if you overuse them, you will lose them". Of course, he then also told me that losing the weight was key to helping the knees to hold up longer, but it's essentially a catch 22. I cannot take part in any competitive sports activities that allow me to burn massive amounts of calories and I am absolutely not one of those individuals who can just get on a machine (of any kind) and mindlessly workout for long periods of time. You either are one of those people, or you aren't. I once forced myself to work out on things like ellipticals or similar devices for six months, and it got so bad I walked away and know I can never return to that kind of activity.

 

So, I'm currently at as to what to do and really struggling desperately to come up with an answer. Out of desperation, I even tried using the rowing machines at the club where I work out. If they were actual sculls, out on a lake, I think that might work for me, but I don't have the financial means, or the necessary vehicle, for that, and, as they say in Games of Thrones, "Winter is coming" anyway. Also, I would want something that worked like the old Roman war galleys did, with rowing happening from a fixed, seated position and dependent on your upper body. The sliding back and forth of the seat on today's rowing machines impacts my knees too much, especially if I have worked out the day before. I've spent the last year trying to find an answer to the dilemma of what I can turn to now to help me get back in shape, and neither I, nor anyone I've consulted has any answers.

 

JC

[Musicophile]

My play count tells me I've listened to about 45% of my 100k+ tracks library at least once since everything got digitized about 4 years ago.

 

My plan is to get to 80% eventually. Unfortunately the Qobuz sublime subscription isn't really helping, there is also so much new stuff worthy of discovering.

[cbee]

I have 8700 tracks in my library, of which 2682 I have rated as 4 or 5 stars in Jriver. I have a smartlist for 4 or 5 star tracks not listened to for more than 450 days. That contains 751 tracks as I write. That is way too big, just not enough spare hours in the day.

[bluesman]

people spend more time reading/writing on this forum than they spend time in their listening chair attentively listening to music....smile

The two are not mutually exclusive.