William Lowe of Audioquest places both feet in his mouth

[plissken]

"So AQ is saying I could take a cable, one not even theirs, and they could tell me which one was the 'broken in cable'?"

 

Yes, but you need 2 pairs of the same exact cable. You break one of them in and insert the other, un-broken in pair just for the test.

 

"Does anyone here believe this and would they let me send them two sets of cables. One set burned in and another never used? Randomly labeled?"

 

It might work, but it wouldn't be the best way to do it. Once you disconnect a cable, it reverts back to its original un-broken in state.

 

That isn't what Mr. Lowe is saying:

 

You know that dielectrics don't "form" quickly, and don't un-form or become amorphous again quickly either

[wgscott]

The idea one needs nothing better than the cables BJC sells strikes me as a wildly inflated claim. I see that more like the pitch a snake oil salesman would make.

 

Except in this case every double-blind test provides evidence in favor of the "wildly inflated claim."

[esldude]

Prove me wrong then. If I give you the specs on a cable will you be able to tell me what it sounds like? No BS. I want to know what the cable sounds like before I put it in the system. You can say I'm wrong all you want, but I put my money where my mouth is. I can sit you down in front of my system and show you the differences between cables. You can claim outside factors like humidity, blood sugar level, mood, lunar phase and whatever else you can come up with, as an excuse for what I'm hearing, but if we're just swapping out cables and nothing else, you need to show me why we just can't look at the obvious. Maybe the difference we hear when we swap out different cables is because the cables are different. Go figure.

 

If you insist on sighted differences you hear I can't be of help. The cables construction has nothing to do with that.

 

Do I really need to show you why you can't look at the obvious? Do I? You seem to be quite insistent that what you hear is due to cable quality and equally insistent not to divorce it from knowing construction details and price. Maybe I am getting you mixed up with someone else, but wasn't it you who said the idea cheap BJC cables could equal cables costing thousands was ridiculous on its face or something similar? Yes it was you:

 

To say a $20 or $30 cable is the equal to one for several hundred, or even thousand, is an outrageous claim. Its common sense. You get what you pay for.

 

Sorry, but you don't get what you pay for if you are buying signal quality. Maybe you are just buying that feel good feeling knowing you have the good (i.e. expensive) stuff. Until you understand why the outrageous part is claiming something expensive gives better signal quality than belden you aren't going to get it.

[sandyk]

Until you understand why the outrageous part is claiming something expensive gives better signal quality than belden you aren't going to get it.

 

I used to say the same about expensive power cables, until along with several others, I heard the differences for myself under non sighted conditions.

[NOMBEDES]

@1762v2

 

Did you not read post #59 where I gave you an example of hyperbolic ad copy? You do yourself a disservice by skipping my rather informative post. As others have noted, you have twisted the concept of snake oil to an absurd degree. You are stating that the absence of an outragous claim is ... well, outragous.

 

Please understand that no one is claiming that one wire monger is better than any other.

We are providing an example of a company which provides a low cost, well built alternative to other cables.

[NOMBEDES]

The idea one needs nothing better than the cables BJC sells strikes me as a wildly inflated claim. I see that more like the pitch a snake oil salesman would make.

 

But you're right, it's not BJC making these claims.

 

I think that most of the participants on this thread would admit that the cable which sounds the best to them in their system is the perfect solution, I have not read any claims on this thread that "one needs nothing nothing better than the cables BJC sells".

[17629v2]

If you put the battery in reverse polarity do you have to (or should you) reverse the cables directional insertion against it's marking arrow? Where are the magnets? LOL

 

The dbs system is at one end of the cable. It connects to the upstream component.

[17629v2]

@1762v2

 

Did you not read post #59 where I gave you an example of hyperbolic ad copy? You do yourself a disservice by skipping my rather informative post. As others have noted, you have twisted the concept of snake oil to an absurd degree. You are stating that the absence of an outragous claim is ... well, outragous.

 

Please understand that no one is claiming that one wire monger is better than any other.

We are providing an example of a company which provides a low cost, well built alternative to other cables.

 

I didn't see it at first, but I did take the time to give you this answer in one of my other posts.

 

"I just saw your post on the Nordost cables. Don't know how I missed it. I asked you for an example, and you really came through. If there was ever a ridiculous claim, that's it. What the hell were they thinking?"

 

It looks like we're in agreement on this one.

[mordante]

Why does the anti-cable fetishists get their panties in a knot each time a cable companies does something?

 

Just get of your high horse and let it be.

[sandyk]

I have not read any claims on this thread that "one needs nothing nothing better than the cables BJC sells"

 

That is basically what Dennis is saying in post 103, and I doubt that several other of the "usual suspects" would be in disagreement with those sentiments either.

[sandyk]

Why does the anti-cable fetishists get their panties in a knot each time a cable companies does something?

 

Just get of your high horse and let it be.

 

See post 7. It's a personal vendetta by the OP.

[plissken]

Why does the anti-cable fetishists get their panties in a knot each time a cable companies does something?

 

Just get of your high horse and let it be.

 

Because we take the same evidence based, methodical, approach to cabling that I took to figuring out why your Auralic Aries wasn't working.

 

Even the at the end when time ran out the educated guess turned out 100% correct.

 

I think if it's ok that someone solves your problem it's ok to let them solve some one else's, no? Because a $1000 3ft cable doesn't solve a problem that a $30 3ft cable doesn't.

[mordante]

Because we take the same evidence based, methodical, approach to cabling that I took to figuring out why your Auralic Aries wasn't working.

 

Even the at the end when time ran out the educated guess turned out 100% correct.

 

I think if it's ok that someone solves your problem it's ok to let them solve some one else's, no? Because a $1000 3ft cable doesn't solve a problem that a $30 3ft cable doesn't.

 

 

You did a great job at helping me out. I do appreciate that. When you are in the neighborhood you can come by any time and we'll have a drink.

 

Some people think that cables are an essential part of the SQ others don't. I'm fine with either. While I think sharing experiences, debating and disagreeing is all great. I think sometimes things go too far. The cable debates always derail, maybe I'm guilty of inflammatory posts as well. But at some point it has to stop.

 

If someone really likes his cables he should be able to post his findings without behind flamed that cables cannot make a difference. But people with no tech back ground should no make grand posts in tech talk why expensive cables are all frauds.

 

The same is true for DSD vs PCM, NOS vs resampling, tubes vs SS

 

There is no universal truth just different experiences.

[r_w]

LOL, "wire monger", love that term.

 

:-)

 

 

 

Please understand that no one is claiming that one wire monger is better than any other

[NOMBEDES]

So how about a way to end all future cable debates? (and the pain)

 

Every time a member brings up cables we will respond with the following statement:

 

"Cables are like tubes. We enjoy rolling tubes and we enjoy rolling cables."

 

No more snark, snipe or hurt feelings.

[esldude]

So how about a way to end all future cable debates? (and the pain)

 

Every time a member brings up cables we will respond with the following statement:

 

"Cables are like tubes. We enjoy rolling tubes and we enjoy rolling cables."

 

No more snark, snipe or hurt feelings.

 

Can't roll that way bro. Tubes are not like cables. Tubes do indeed perform differently in a circuit. Cables not so much.

[mansr]

So how about a way to end all future cable debates? (and the pain)

 

Every time a member brings up cables we will respond with the following statement:

 

"Cables are like tubes. We enjoy rolling tubes and we enjoy rolling cables."

 

No more snark, snipe or hurt feelings.

I thought the usual advice was not to roll up excess cable.

[NOMBEDES]

Can't roll that way bro. Tubes are not like cables. Tubes do indeed perform differently in a circuit. Cables not so much.

 

 

 

I have no doubt you are correct. My suggestion, however, was intended to encourage members to swap out cables in order to determine which cable set they like the best. (

 

Cable agnostics, cable fans, and cable haters all get the same answer; roll and enjoy! There is so much oil of viper in the cable business, only your ears matter.

[NOMBEDES]

I thought the usual advice was not to roll up excess cable.

 

 

My lamp cord comes in 100ft rolls. Sounds great!

[plissken]

You did a great job at helping me out. I do appreciate that. When you are in the neighborhood you can come by any time and we'll have a drink.

 

Some people think that cables are an essential part of the SQ others don't. I'm fine with either. While I think sharing experiences, debating and disagreeing is all great. I think sometimes things go too far. The cable debates always derail, maybe I'm guilty of inflammatory posts as well. But at some point it has to stop.

 

If someone really likes his cables he should be able to post his findings without behind flamed that cables cannot make a difference. But people with no tech back ground should no make grand posts in tech talk why expensive cables are all frauds.

 

The same is true for DSD vs PCM, NOS vs resampling, tubes vs SS

 

There is no universal truth just different experiences.

 

Yes there is universal truth. It's why I never bothered to ask what brand of cabling or wireless you were using.... It was not material. Universal truth about how networks operate are what led me to the correct conclusions. Please don't let this be lost on you.

 

It's ok to post findings of fact. In your thread I posted 3 findings and two possible culprits and out of the two the one I thought most likely.

 

It was based on understanding the overall tenet's of how this stuff works. Accepting that it works, Accepting that there are standards, and accepting that after you have a cable with really good balance of L/C/R (low as you can get it), Shielding, Terminations and termination technique that unbacked claims of extrusion, pouring, annealing etc... the shape of the conductor, the biasing of the dielectric are with out merit in the face of measurements with an $20,000 analyzer showing zero difference.

 

Unless a group of subjectivists want to get together and show there is a difference and that the difference tracks with the $$ spent with a bias controlled scenario then we are simply left with empirical data.

 

AQ is un-equivocating in their dogma that the dielectric maintains its state for awhile. This presents the perfect opportunity to get people at a show for a sit down with a highly resolving, minimalist system, and see if anyone can follow the ball under the cup in regards to AQ's claim.

[Sal1950]

It was based on understanding the overall tenet's of how this stuff works. Accepting that it works, Accepting that there are standards, and accepting that after you have a cable with really good balance of L/C/R (low as you can get it), Shielding, Terminations and termination technique that unbacked claims of extrusion, pouring, annealing etc... the shape of the conductor, the biasing of the dielectric are with out merit in the face of measurements with an $20,000 analyzer showing zero difference.

 

Unless a group of subjectivists want to get together and show there is a difference and that the difference tracks with the $$ spent with a bias controlled scenario then we are simply left with empirical data.

 

AQ is un-equivocating in their dogma that the dielectric maintains its state for awhile. This presents the perfect opportunity to get people at a show for a sit down with a highly resolving, minimalist system, and see if anyone can follow the ball under the cup in regards to AQ's claim.

 

Yep.

IMO the bigger issue remains that under different and more dire circumstances, AQ and the other boutique cable marketers could be considered prosecute-able under consumer fraud laws.

It's 85% BS and the other 15% made up of cables that purposely insert LCR conditions that make them sound very different in conjunction with some gear. (different but not more accurate).

I for one will not sit quietly by while new users are coned into joining this religious cult and watch their pockets get picked.

[esldude]

Plissken, you and Sal act as if this cable business is akin to three card Monte.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[plissken]

Plissken, you and Sal act as if this cable business is akin to three card Monte.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

I certainly think there is ample information to back a position that the claims in AQ's case is a shell game.

[Sal1950]

Plissken, you and Sal act as if this cable business is akin to three card Monte.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

I certainly think there is ample information to back a position that the claims in AQ's case is a shell game.

That's a mild way to discribe it. LOL

[17629v2]

If you insist on sighted differences you hear I can't be of help. The cables construction has nothing to do with that.

 

Do I really need to show you why you can't look at the obvious? Do I? You seem to be quite insistent that what you hear is due to cable quality and equally insistent not to divorce it from knowing construction details and price. Maybe I am getting you mixed up with someone else, but wasn't it you who said the idea cheap BJC cables could equal cables costing thousands was ridiculous on its face or something similar? Yes it was you:

 

To say a $20 or $30 cable is the equal to one for several hundred, or even thousand, is an outrageous claim. Its common sense. You get what you pay for.

 

Sorry, but you don't get what you pay for if you are buying signal quality. Maybe you are just buying that feel good feeling knowing you have the good (i.e. expensive) stuff. Until you understand why the outrageous part is claiming something expensive gives better signal quality than belden you aren't going to get it.

 

I said that to make a point. Everyone is so quick to jump on companies like AQ without giving any consideration to the actual products. Not only that, they defend companies like BJ's because they're cheap. The truth is, sometimes you put BJ's cables in the system and they don't sound as good as some of the more expensive options. Sorry, but that's just the way it goes.

 

"If you insist on sighted differences you hear I can't be of help. The cables construction has nothing to do with that."

 

I insist on nothing and I ask for no help. I'm not trying to be mean, its just a simple fact. I'm pretty clear in how I approach equipment selection. I choose components based on the results I get. If a piece performs well, I keep it. If not, I get rid of it. I see no logic in doing things any other way. This is what works for me. And when I used to do this for a living, I could't just argue my way out of a problem and refer them to some articles to read. There's never been an issue I couldn't resolve. It wasn't always easy, but I put the work in until I got results. If you don't do it this way for yourself, that's fine. Use whatever methods work for you.