Chord DAVE

[stvc]

Some how i don't like Dave Pre-amp, i only used it with DAC mode for my loudspeaker setup, probably i too lean toward tube.

[Astralark]

The DAC parts are quite advanced but the analog circuit output is just OK. And this is the problems of Mojo and Hugo as well. Say "Chord taste", the tone between Mojo Hugo and Dave are the same.

 

 

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[ecwl]

Chord DACs are designed to minimize distortions and reproduce the original analog waveforms as much as possible (obviously according to the designer Rob Watts' vision of what distortions matter most). So the analog circuit is "simple" with as few elements as possible to minimize distortion. I guess Astralark doesn't like it and thought the analog circuit output was okay. Although I'm not sure what Astralark thinks would make it better. I'm still waiting for some more reviewers' measurements of Chord DAVE (only one available is from Hi-Fi News and Record Review). But you can go to a DAC Astralark recommended, say Rockna Wavedream DAC and you see the company proudly displaying their RD-0 + analog stage 1kHz @ -90dB output with a noise floor of -180dB which is great but you can also see more distortions (harmonic and non-harmonic). By that I mean you can go to the Stereophile review measurements of Chord Mojo with the same measurement off the iPad 2 and the noise floor is -150dB (not as good as Rockna although Rob Watts would argue there is no noise floor modulation) but you see fewer harmonic and non-harmonic distortion. Obviously, whether these distortions are audible are often debated. I personally think they actually affect the sound of DACs (otherwise we'd all be listening off our iPhones and iPads since their distortions are probably also below the threshold of hearing in theory based on our current scientific understanding of hearing thresholds). Ultimately, I really think people should just try to listen to DACs they are interested in and then make their own decisions. I mean some people like tube amps, others like solid state and some prefer class A, others high-power class AB or class D. They all have different distortion profiles and most of the distortions are below -90dB so theoretically below threshold of hearing and ultimately we all have our preferences (or we don't and say they all sound the same). I think the diversity of preferences is what makes the hobby interesting. But I would also say, if you're going to spend Chord DAVE money or more on a DAC, you should definitely audition Chord DAVE if possible before making your purchase.

[Astralark]

Chord DACs are designed to minimize distortions and reproduce the original analog waveforms as much as possible (obviously according to the designer Rob Watts' vision of what distortions matter most). So the analog circuit is "simple" with as few elements as possible to minimize distortion. I guess Astralark doesn't like it and thought the analog circuit output was okay. Although I'm not sure what Astralark thinks would make it better. I'm still waiting for some more reviewers' measurements of Chord DAVE (only one available is from Hi-Fi News and Record Review). But you can go to a DAC Astralark recommended, say Rockna Wavedream DAC and you see the company proudly displaying their RD-0 + analog stage 1kHz @ -90dB output with a noise floor of -180dB which is great but you can also see more distortions (harmonic and non-harmonic). By that I mean you can go to the Stereophile review measurements of Chord Mojo with the same measurement off the iPad 2 and the noise floor is -150dB (not as good as Rockna although Rob Watts would argue there is no noise floor modulation) but you see fewer harmonic and non-harmonic distortion. Obviously, whether these distortions are audible are often debated. I personally think they actually affect the sound of DACs (otherwise we'd all be listening off our iPhones and iPads since their distortions are probably also below the threshold of hearing in theory based on our current scientific understanding of hearing thresholds). Ultimately, I really think people should just try to listen to DACs they are interested in and then make their own decisions. I mean some people like tube amps, others like solid state and some prefer class A, others high-power class AB or class D. They all have different distortion profiles and most of the distortions are below -90dB so theoretically below threshold of hearing and ultimately we all have our preferences (or we don't and say they all sound the same). I think the diversity of preferences is what makes the hobby interesting. But I would also say, if you're going to spend Chord DAVE money or more on a DAC, you should definitely audition Chord DAVE if possible before making your purchase.

 

The distortion is a kind of THD. The measurement of THD of DAVE is far better than other companies. This means the DAC parts are so good and to the aim of High-Fidelity. The jitter measurement is so good as well from Hifi news review. However, Hi-Fidelity doesn't mean good sound or good tone. A certain degree of THD and jitter can makes the sound just "different" and that kind differences are good tones to someone's preferences. I heard DAVE at headphone show. The sound is very good but not my favorite. But I decide to order DAVE because DAVE did good with simple set-ups especially when you see the size of DAVE just equal to a linear power supply unit of a headphone amplifier.

 

 

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[EVOLVIST]

The distortion is a kind of THD. The measurement of THD of DAVE is far better than other companies. This means the DAC parts are so good and to the aim of High-Fidelity. The jitter measurement is so good as well from Hifi news review. However, Hi-Fidelity doesn't mean good sound or good tone. A certain degree of THD and jitter can makes the sound just "different" and that kind differences are good tones to someone's preferences. I heard DAVE at headphone show. The sound is very good but not my favorite. But I decide to order DAVE because DAVE did good with simple set-ups especially when you see the size of DAVE just equal to a linear power supply unit of a headphone amplifier.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

I could only wish that my DAVE could be powered by a linear power supply as some of my other gear. But yes, keep the DAVE simple and I can call out no others that bests it.

 

And when the time comes, yes, I will upgrade to the DAVE2, or whatever it will be. First things first, though; I need to get my Focal Utopias in, because oddly enough, if there's a bottleneck in my system it is my HD800s.

[mavwong]

Why would one want a complicated system if simple system sound best already?

 

I just heard DAVE directly connected to MacBook Pro via USB without any expensive cables, headphone amplifier, power conditioner. The SQ is amazingly good. This is the main advantage of DAVE (i.e. To build a simple and good system). If I want to build a complicated system, I won't consider DAVE because for the position of DAC, I can choose from other brands (Totaldac, NADAC, Rockna, Prismsound 8XR etc) at the same price.

 

 

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[PANURUS]

Some impression about Dave.

 

I try to find the better source for my Dave.

I try bluenode 2. The worst result.

I try OPPO BDP-103D with optical.

The Oppo needs Jitter bug with some Hard disk.

The result is enjoyable with very good files.

Actually, my Dave works with a Samsung galaxy S3. I use the usb cable from Chord.

 

The Dave is connected with XLR WIREWORLD ECLIPSE GOLD cables to Monoblock Pass labbs X260.5.

The speaker's cables are WIREWORLD ECLIPSE GOLD and the speakers B&W804D3.

 

I am a b&W supporter since the first B&W 801 in 1979. I plan to construct a new auditorium with the 800 D3.

Last week in a show in Bruxelles, i listen to these new B&W ( 30000 Euro) connected to DCS Vivaldi with audioquest cable.

I enjoy the new 800 but I prefer the details in the sound coming from my setup in my auditorium.

 

The first time i listen the Dcs Vivaldi and the Dave, I find each was very good but i can not make a valid evaluation

because the amplifier and the cable used in the showroom was not good relative to my taste and standard.

My conclusion was: if i had need to find a difference in favor of the DCS, the price of this setup was unjustifiable.

This seller must to think more how to help the customer to select the best of this kind of product.

[ecwl]

I think over at the Head Fi forum, most people think the best source for Chord DAVE is microRendu but then I think MicroRendu is considered the best source for any USB DAC. Too bad it's too cumbersome for me to get one and set it up.

As for speaker upgrades, I find the biggest challenge is that the deeper a speaker goes, the more likely it'll start inducing a bass peak in the room that we didn't previously know. And then we have to measure it and figure out room treatment or DSP to tame the new resonance. It's a bit of a crap shoot.

[PANURUS]

I think over at the Head Fi forum, most people think the best source for Chord DAVE is microRendu but then I think MicroRendu is considered the best source for any USB DAC. Too bad it's too cumbersome for me to get one and set it up.

As for speaker upgrades, I find the biggest challenge is that the deeper a speaker goes, the more likely it'll start inducing a bass peak in the room that we didn't previously know. And then we have to measure it and figure out room treatment or DSP to tame the new resonance. It's a bit of a crap shoot.

Most people but not the conceptor of the Dave.

he is very diplomatic. He explains that he disconnect the power cable of the alimentation of the PC or use a Jitter bug.

He said gently that the usb is the only interface where the bitstream is resended if an error checksum occur.

So i traduce for me that he don't care about the Microrendu because he knowns his solution.

Actually, i am searching on web if the " resend fonctionnality " comes from the Asio driver or if WASAPI is working the same.

Nobody speak about these fonctionnalities and that why I came on this forum. The name "Computer Audiophile" looks good.

Wich software exploits this feature? Rob Watt use HQPlayer

I you have informations, thank you for it. Maybe i would start a new subject?

Maybe a debugging tools would be a solution :Debugging Common USB Issues - Total Phase.

If we can prove that the traffic is without error why would we buy a source for 20k Euro or a microrendu or a cable for 1k Euro?

With the dave I am " USBcable " save. A excellent starting point.

 

I am very surprised that on the planet HIFI, many people are speaking about medication and few diagnostic.

Rob Watt do it so I choose Chord Mojo and Chord Dave.

[TubeLover]

I think they are beautiful, especially DAVE.

 

+1. I love the Chord styling, especially their high end pieces. I just can't afford any of them!

 

JC

[PANURUS]

correction : Rob Watts use Jriver.

[Miska]

By that I mean you can go to the Stereophile review measurements of Chord Mojo with the same measurement off the iPad 2 and the noise floor is -150dB (not as good as Rockna although Rob Watts would argue there is no noise floor modulation) but you see fewer harmonic and non-harmonic distortion.

 

This is one of the common misunderstanding about measurements. The noise level is not -150 dB, but instead it depends on measurement bandwidth and FFT parameters as you can see if you compare noise floor levels between the different measurements having different measurement bandwidth.

 

Audibility depends whether noise contains discrete tones and how it fits in relation to the masking band of the fundamental.

[ecwl]

This is one of the common misunderstanding about measurements. The noise level is not -150 dB, but instead it depends on measurement bandwidth and FFT parameters

You're absolutely correct Miska. Except I was commenting on the dithered 1kHz tone at –90dBFS at 24-bit spectrum of Mojo vs Rockna where Rockna has more distortions but a lower noise floor. Or are you trying to tell me that the Rockna spectrum is not generated at 24-bit? Either way, thank you for your insight.

[ctsooner]

The one area that Chord DAC's excel is in the upper mids on up. For some, their highest extension can often sound harsh even on well recorded music. I know many don't want to hear that, but it's just my opinion and in speaking with others, they've said the same so I don't think it was just the room I heard it in. The area that Chord just doesn't get right IMHO is bass. It just doesn't go low or with authority. I've found that it is like that in their whole line. That's not a knock and I'm sure there will be plenty of posts telling me that it goes very low and it's the best down in the nether regions. I thought my last DAC went really low, however once I got the Ayre QX 5 Twenty in the system I heard bass that I haven't heard in my system before. I have had many top rated DACS under 25k or so in my house and none have sounded better than the Ayre so far and I'm not nearly burned in yet. Again, JMHO

 

As for running direct, if you have a GREAT pre amp already, just stay with it and do side by side. I know some have said that side by side the direct route is more transparent, however I have not heard that with my Ayre AX5 Twenty integrated. I ran it direct and through the pre. With the pre, it was much much more musical and focused. Everything was better IRT soundstage, imaging and sound quality. Timber, length of notes, air around the notes etc... All much better with a pre,however if you are just staring off or have a preamp that isn't top quality, then maybe direct is the best way to go and then get a great pre later if you feel you need/want one. I've run an Empirical Audio ODSE/SE direct and felt the same way about using the pre in the AX5 which is the best pre I've personally heard in any integrated and yes, I've heard many of the 20k plus integrated's before I purchased mine.

 

I hear the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty gives the DAVE a run for its money at $8950 but that is just hearsay.

[Miska]

Except I was commenting on the dithered 1kHz tone at –90dBFS at 24-bit spectrum of Mojo vs Rockna where Rockna has more distortions but a lower noise floor.

 

OK, I see. Where is the measurement for Rockna? I couldn't find it with quick search. As long as the measurement is made same way with same parameters, the noise floor delta is completely comparable, just not the absolute levels. For discrete tones the absolute levels should be largely comparable anyway (because they don't spread over multiple FFT bins).

 

Usually random noise is less audible than discrete tones (distortion/spurious tones).

[ecwl]

Where is the measurement for Rockna? I couldn't find it with quick search.

 

http://www.rockna-audio.com/products/wavedream-dac

[Miska]

Wavedream DAC | Rockna Audio

 

Noise floor between that and Stereophile's measurements are certainly not comparable... Bandwidth is different and also FFT parameters are likely different. Only the discrete tones may be comparable.

[ecwl]

Noise floor between that and Stereophile's measurements are certainly not comparable... Bandwidth is different and also FFT parameters are likely different. Only the discrete tones may be comparable.

 

Ah. I get it now. Thanks.

[Miska]

Here's my Chord Mojo measurement for the 1 kHz -90 dBFS tone at 44.1k input sampling rate and 20 kHz measurement bandwidth:

 

Yet another result...