Ethernet vs usb

[mourip]

 

Also keep in mind anything more than 30 cents per foot worth of single mode fiber cable will be throwing money in the wind. Anything upstream of the fiber switch or FMC in the system will have absolutely no impact on the end quality. Not a single server tweak, cable, power supply or ANYTHING! 100% top performance will be possible from the cheapest cables on the market. As long as it's functioning, it will sound at peak performance.

 

This digital bridge will have an ST fiber Ethernet input.

 

And please don't think of degrading performance with external re-clockers. They will only add jitter and noise. If you want less jitter upgrade the internal clock that will be located mere millimetres from the FPGA.

 

Glad to hear about the fiber input. Most of us who are using Rednet have found that the server tweaks that are obligatory with USB make little or no difference when using the Dante ethernet output to the Rednet interface.

 

Regarding the external reclocker that of course makes sense and an all-in-one unit built to purpose will have that advantage but one is not for sale ...yet. BTW. The Mutec USB makes a nice difference after the Rednet devices for those who are early adopters.

 

Glad to hear that you are listening and incorporating all of the best parts that have been discovered so far...

 

It is a good time to be in this hobby.

[Tand]

My little report from the Rednet tread at Head-Fi.org - Headphone forums and reviews for audiophiles.

 

"After 3 weeks burn-in the Rednet 16R and Mutec MC3 + USB truly devastates my old USB chain (Berkeley usb converter, 0.8 Curious/Regen+JS-2+/Curious link/3 x Jitterbugs). I compared the two again this weekend and it took 30 seconds-ish to comfirm I did the right thing getting the Rednet and Mutec. The speed of the transients is much faster, the USB chain sounded muffled and slow compared to the Rednet 16R/Mutec.

 

I use a Synergistic Reasearch Tungsten/Cobber AC cable on my Mutec and an old gen Nordost on my Rednet. The Mutec responds better to the AC cable than the Rednet. I have both placed on a S.R. Tranquility Basic platform and the Mutec is connected to a S.R. Grounding Block with HD usb cable. The result is lower noise and better dynamic contrast.

 

I also use FMCs with the Rednet end connected to my JS-2 and a 1 foot Blue Jeans 6a ethernet to the Rednet.

 

My AES cables are Shunyata Anaconda 1.5 meter and a Straight Wire InfoLink 1.5 meter. Both will be replaced with S.R. Atmosphere Level 3 AES 1.5 meters next week or so."

 

The sound is so good now !

 

 

[jon2020]

My little report from the Rednet tread at Head-Fi.org - Headphone forums and reviews for audiophiles.

 

"After 3 weeks burn-in the Rednet 16R and Mutec MC3 + USB truly devastates my old USB chain (Berkeley usb converter, 0.8 Curious/Regen+JS-2+/Curious link/3 x Jitterbugs). I compared the two again this weekend and it took 30 seconds-ish to comfirm I did the right thing getting the Rednet and Mutec. The speed of the transients is much faster, the USB chain sounded muffled and slow compared to the Rednet 16R/Mutec.

 

I use a Synergistic Reasearch Tungsten/Cobber AC cable on my Mutec and an old gen Nordost on my Rednet. The Mutec responds better to the AC cable than the Rednet. I have both placed on a S.R. Tranquility Basic platform and the Mutec is connected to a S.R. Grounding Block with HD usb cable. The result is lower noise and better dynamic contrast.

 

I also use FMCs with the Rednet end connected to my JS-2 and a 1 foot Blue Jeans 6a ethernet to the Rednet.

 

My AES cables are Shunyata Anaconda 1.5 meter and a Straight Wire InfoLink 1.5 meter. Both will be replaced with S.R. Atmosphere Level 3 AES 1.5 meters next week or so."

 

The sound is so good now !

 

 

 

A good listening comparison. Thanks for sharing.

[tboooe]

What happened to Mivera's posts??? Did Mike get banned (again)???

[semente]

Sorry, but that is a false myth.

 

I've been in the high-end industry for over 20 years. During my years as co-founder of Hovland Company, we had our amps and preamps reviewed dozens of times, with 10+ cover-photo features around the world (including the cover of Stereophile and major German and Asian magazines). And as UpTone we have had web and print reviews.

 

Never once have I ever had to pay for a review, nor have I ever been asked to do so.

The most we have ever done is to provide a modest industry accommodation discount on purchase of the product--after the review was published and the reviewer decided they wanted to keep the product for their reference system (an obvious benefit to us as it results in ongoing mentions-- but never coerced in any way).

 

The other myth deserves to be dispelled is the notion that most manufacturers set their products' retail prices at 6-to-10 times their bill of materials cost. Even for brands that include room for dealer/overseas distributor margins, this is total BS.

 

Just FYI.

Would you happen to know/remember the price of a full page ad in a print magazine, or an online one for that matter?

[Jud]

What happened to Mivera's posts??? Did Mike get banned (again)???

 

I was kind of wondering how he got back on in the first place. Was it without informing Chris at all, or did he promise to be good this time?

 

The "righteous" thing for him to do, IMHO, would be to see if Chris is amenable to him having his own (paid) spot in the industry forum section.

[tboooe]

 

The "righteous" thing for him to do, IMHO, would be to see if Chris is amenable to him having his own (paid) spot in the industry forum section.

Good idea. The Ravenna Pro does sound like a great device, offering an option to the Rednet.

[matthias]

IMO, the Rednet has two drawbacks:

 

1.) Limited to PCM 24/192

2.) Limited to AES/EBU or SPDIF output.

 

Because AES/EBU or SPDIF has much higher jitter than I2S there is need for reclocking devices like Mutec and expensive external clocks. Ravenna seems to provide both DSD support and a much cleaner I2S output.

 

Matt

[jon2020]

IMO, the Rednet has two drawbacks:

 

1.) Limited to PCM 24/192

2.) Limited to AES/EBU or SPDIF output.

 

Because AES/EBU or SPDIF has much higher jitter than I2S there is need for reclocking devices like Mutec and expensive external clocks. Ravenna seems to provide both DSD support and a much cleaner I2S output.

 

Matt

 

+1.

[tboooe]

IMO, the Rednet has two drawbacks:

 

1.) Limited to PCM 24/192

2.) Limited to AES/EBU or SPDIF output.

 

Because AES/EBU or SPDIF has much higher jitter than I2S there is need for reclocking devices like Mutec and expensive external clocks. Ravenna seems to provide both DSD support and a much cleaner I2S output.

 

Matt

 

Hopefully, we will start seeing more DACs with I2S input.

[Superdad]

Would you happen to know/remember the price of a full page ad in a print magazine, or an online one for that matter?

 

For Stereophile, full page ads used to run between $4,000-$6000. A lot depended upon insertion frequency (every month or less frequently) and if color or b/w.

Money went really fast that way...

[jon2020]

Hopefully, we will start seeing more DACs with I2S input.

 

Hopefully, too, the implementation of I2S in a dac will not be too much of an issue amongst the many hardware manufacturers.

Or we will be back to comparing I2S implementation just as we are now with ethernet and usb.

[Superdad]

What happened to Mivera's posts??? Did Mike get banned (again)???

 

Well Mike/Blizzard/Mivera--having been banned from a half-dozen forums--can make up whatever BS he likes over on his own forum. He has been pulling stuff out of his ass and attacking/disparaging other manufacturers for quite a while.

 

[Don't hold your breath for too long for the Ravenna revolution he has been promising for close to 2 years now. It will come, and plenty of DAC/interface OEMs with real engineers will then have access to the same modules he is going to be using. I still think the hold-up is going to be supported/licensed virtual sound card software.]

 

Oh, and if you think I am kidding about his Trumpian tendencies, here is a gem from him from earlier today:

 

"Awesome Tboooe! Yes it's going to be great. If you noticed Chris from CA banned me and deleted all of my posts. The reason being he's business partners with Alex Crespi and friends. He doesn't want anyone knowing about this little box."

and

"Ha ha yeah I know why. Because it will kill the interest of power supply and little USB box sales he makes money off of."

Mike has posted much nastier ones elsewhere on his forum, but I won't bother digging them up.

 

He also spouts about how most manufacturers set their retail prices at 10-12 times parts cost. That too is a crock.

 

It is sad, because he knows some good people, has some good ideas, and could make friends--if only he knew how. It is a thing called maturity. Might come with age; might not.

[AlainGr]

Well Mike/Blizzard/Mivera--having been banned from a half-dozen forums--can make up whatever BS he likes over on his own forum. He has been pulling stuff out of his ass and attacking/disparaging other manufacturers for quite a while.

 

[Don't hold your breath for too long for the Ravenna revolution he has been promising for close to 2 years now. It will come, and plenty of DAC/interface OEMs with real engineers will then have access to the same modules he is going to be using. I still think the hold-up is going to be supported/licensed virtual sound card software.]

 

Oh, and if you think I am kidding about his Trumpian tendencies, here is a gem from him from earlier today:

 

"Awesome Tboooe! Yes it's going to be great. If you noticed Chris from CA banned me and deleted all of my posts. The reason being he's business partners with Alex Crespi and friends. He doesn't want anyone knowing about this little box."

and

"Ha ha yeah I know why. Because it will kill the interest of power supply and little USB box sales he makes money off of."

Mike has posted much nastier ones elsewhere on his forum, but I won't bother digging them up.

 

He also spouts about how most manufacturers set their retail prices at 10-12 times parts cost. That too is a crock.

 

It is sad, because he knows some good people, has some good ideas, and could make friends--if only he knew how. It is a thing called maturity. Might come with age; might not.

 

Maturity... And respect... I would not do any business with someone like him... Some people need to go through hard times to open their eyes... And even so, they can't help it but keep on the same pattern...

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - I was unaware that Mike / Blizzard / Mivera had returned to CA until I was notified recently. Due to his behavior previously, that got him banned from CA, and his return without notice or a private conversation, and his vested interest in pushing his own products against forum rules, I banned him again.

 

This has nothing to do with anything else. Period. In fact, if I had ulterior motives like he suggests, I would have tried to get him to pay for a sponsored forum and make money. However, that's not how I live my life.

[davide256]

Hopefully, we will start seeing more DACs with I2S input.

 

 

Sigh...another wired connection with LRC anomalies... wonder why I can't get excited.

[jon2020]

From an innocent thread like this, we just got a glimpse of the industry side of this hobby. And things can get pretty ugly.

 

Boy, am I glad I am not on the other side of this very pleasureable hobby.

[One and a half]

Hopefully, too, the implementation of I2S in a dac will not be too much of an issue amongst the many hardware manufacturers.

Or we will be back to comparing I2S implementation just as we are now with ethernet and usb.

 

The sad reality is I2S is a very short like 2cm worth of protocol used internally in DACs.

 

To transport I2S for longer distances, like 0.5-2m+, I2S needs to be bundled with a transport, LVDS is a good choice. But there's then another layer of serial data to encode and then decode. It's really messy, and of course since it's audio, there's no clear cut or widely adopted pioneer to set a standard.

[jon2020]

The sad reality is I2S is a very short like 2cm worth of protocol used internally in DACs.

 

To transport I2S for longer distances, like 0.5-2m+, I2S needs to be bundled with a transport, LVDS is a good choice. But there's then another layer of serial data to encode and then decode. It's really messy, and of course since it's audio, there's no clear cut or widely adopted pioneer to set a standard.

 

Thanks for the heads up.

Good to know but sad to hear it.

[Jud]

From an innocent thread like this, we just got a glimpse of the industry side of this hobby. And things can get pretty ugly.

 

Boy, am I glad I am not on the other side of this very pleasureable hobby.

 

My experience of folks in the industry is that it's much like other industries - some truly wonderful people, some horses' rear ends, and a whole bunch of just regular folks.

 

I'd say things only "get ugly" around the small number of industry folks who act ugly.

[jon2020]

My experience of folks in the industry is that it's much like other industries - some truly wonderful people, some horses' rear ends, and a whole bunch of just regular folks.

 

I'd say things only "get ugly" around the small number of industry folks who act ugly.

 

Good to know and glad to hear it.

[Jud]

Hi Guys - I was unaware that Mike / Blizzard / Mivera had returned to CA until I was notified recently. Due to his behavior previously, that got him banned from CA, and his return without notice or a private conversation, and his vested interest in pushing his own products against forum rules, I banned him again.

 

 

I am amazed (edit - at Mike's actions) but not surprised.

[semente]

Hopefully, we will start seeing more DACs with I2S input.

What kind(s) of connection(s) or connector(s) are used for this link?

Can you connect a Raspberry Pi board to a stand alone DAC?

 

R

[semente]

For Stereophile, full page ads used to run between $4,000-$6000. A lot depended upon insertion frequency (every month or less frequently) and if color or b/w.

Money went really fast that way...

Thanks.

So at least some manufacturers are paying for reviews, their own and those of others.

Magazines must make a profit, however small that may be.

 

R

[matthias]

What kind(s) of connection(s) or connector(s) are used for this link?

R

 

RJ-45(CMOS) or HDMI(LVDS)

 

Matt