A good subwoofer cable recommendation needed

[Kal Rubinson]

So we do not agree with each other.

I think we knew that already.

[sphinxsix]

I think we knew that already.

So you agree that different cables can sound different also as far as bass is concerned and at the same time you insist that they sound the same when they conduct low frequencies only. Doesn't it seem strange.? Would you be able to suggest some theoretical explanation of such a phenomenon.?

[Kal Rubinson]

So you agree that different cables can sound different also as far as bass is concerned and at the same time you insist that they sound the same when they conduct low frequencies only. Doesn't it seem strange.? Would you be able to suggest some theoretical explanation of such a phenomenon.?

The complex impedance of coaxial cables can interact with source and/or load and affect FR over a wide bandwidth. Narrow the band and it becomes trivial.

[17629v2]

"Would you be able to suggest some theoretical explanation of such a phenomenon.?"

 

We're far more sensitive to mids and highs. There's usually a lot more going on in the upper frequencies. Also, consider the fact that frequencies become more directional as you go up. Your main speakers shoot mids and highs directly at you, while a sub is diffuse and offers much less detail. That's why you hear little to no difference with sub cables.

[plissken]

Except from the fact that what matters most in this case (some people shouldn't read on..) is its bass response.

 

WTF are you talking about? A cable doesn't have 'bass response'. It has L/C/R as properties and hopefully good shielding and adequate wire gauge.

[plissken]

The complex impedance of coaxial cables can interact with source and/or load and affect FR over a wide bandwidth. Narrow the band and it becomes trivial.

 

Like Mhz range. 0-20Khz? Not so much.

 

Belden doesn't even start listing attenuation for the 1505F until 1 Mhz and that is at 100ft. Sure some idiot outfit can make a cable that purposefully will sound different. I'll trust the likes of Belden vs some other outfits like the ones that place directional arrows on Ethernet cables.

[gmgraves]

Hi All:

I am using a PI3 and Hiberry Digi+ with a old Harman Kardon Signature 2.0 PreAmp and Carver amp with a pair of NHT zeros. This was a living room setup mainly to listen classical, new age through a Roon Bridge installed on the Pi. Just bought a SVS SB-1000 to complement the Zeros. I have audioquest RCA cable laying around but thinking of buy a subwoofer cable. I am thinking of getting a Soundpath cable from SVS (SoundPath RCA Subwoofer / Audio Interconnect Cable – SVS ). I have to say, I am huge monoprice fan. Do you have any help for a Noob?

Thanks,

Ahmed

 

Don't spend more than about US$30 for a cable, and make sure that said cable is well made with quality connectors. Don't worry about the coaxial cable used, it will take care of itself.

[sphinxsix]

The complex impedance of coaxial cables can interact with source and/or load and affect FR over a wide bandwidth. Narrow the band and it becomes trivial.

If you don't mind I will remain unconvinced

[sphinxsix]

"Would you be able to suggest some theoretical explanation of such a phenomenon.?"

 

We're far more sensitive to mids and highs. There's usually a lot more going on in the upper frequencies. Also, consider the fact that frequencies become more directional as you go up. Your main speakers shoot mids and highs directly at you, while a sub is diffuse and offers much less detail. That's why you hear little to no difference with sub cables.

I agree, the peak of human ear sensitivity is in the midrange. It is much less sensitive to low frequencies. At the same time most subwoofers are boomy and slow. It is much easier to hear bass differences with a sub that is rhythmically fast and able to reveal the timbral, textural nuances of bass at the same time. And such devices are rare and usually quite expensive. That can explain the whole matter IMO.

[mansr]

WTF are you talking about? A cable doesn't have 'bass response'. It has L/C/R as properties and hopefully good shielding and adequate wire gauge.

 

And no cable has a series capacitance, which is what it would take to alter the low-frequency response.

[Speedskater]

The complex impedance of coaxial cables can interact with source and/or load and affect FR over a wide bandwidth. Narrow the band and it becomes trivial.

 

The Radio Frequency Characteristic Impedance of a coaxial cable has nothing to do with an analog audio interconnect.

But high total interconnect capacitance can make the output stage unhappy.

[Kal Rubinson]

And no cable has a series capacitance, which is what it would take to alter the low-frequency response.

 

Agreed. It was a casual reference to the possibility that varying HF roll-off might give the subjective impression of more bass in a full-range application.

[semente]

Any well made interconnect should work fine. No reason to spend a lot of money. In order to hear differences between sub cables, you need super revealing equipment.

Do you mean hearing equipment?

[plissken]

Any well made interconnect should work fine. No reason to spend a lot of money. In order to hear differences between sub cables, you need super revealing equipment.

 

A vivid imagination works also.

[Iain]

My requirement is for a sub placed within 3-5 feet of the system.

 

Why?

 

To properly integrate your sub with the rest of your system, you should be ready to place the subwoofer anywhere in the listening room. The point of this is, you don't want LFE to sound as if it's coming from the subwoofer; LFE should sound as if it's coming from front/rear speakers. This is why proper room placement of sub and AVR distance settings are crucial here.

 

You'll need a long and well-screened subwoofer cable to accomplish this. For example, My BJC LC-1 is 9 metres in length to account for proper room placement of sub.

[chilledbongo]

That's exactly opposite most sub placement theory

 

Sent from my SM-T810 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[17629v2]

A vivid imagination works also.

 

Or actual experience. They didn't make actual sub cables at the time, but you can clearly hear the differences on the Kinergetics Research SW800's I had paired with my Martin Logan's. But those subs are clearly in a different league than what the OP has. Imagination may cut it for you, but it doesn't for me. No experiance = no opinion.

[sphinxsix]

@ gmgraves

@ mansr

@ 'WTF'plissken

 

Obviously..

 

You have a right to remain..

 

 

 

 

..unconvinced

[robocop]

I've always found the better cables you use on subs the better the sound.

 

Its a myth that you can get away with cheap cables, well you can use cheap cables but if you care about better sound!!!

 

My JLAudio12 subs came with Mogami Pro cables which I used for about a year. When I finally tried Nordost Blue Heaven's I was so surprised at the improvement in not only the bass but also the treble. In fact the whole sound improved.

 

I now run Nordost Heimdall II's to all my speakers(active). This was another upgrade in sound.

 

Clean accurate bass is critical to the whole sound. Bass harmonics influence higher frequencies.

 

Robert

[sphinxsix]

The complex impedance of coaxial cables can interact with source and/or load and affect FR over a wide bandwidth. Narrow the band and it becomes trivial.

 

It was a casual reference to the possibility that varying HF roll-off might give the subjective impression of more bass in a full-range application.

 

I'm not an audio measurements specialist as far as cables or any other audio gear are concerned. Some guys here are much better in theoretical field than I am. Somebody here (I don't recall who) even professionally measures electrical properties of cables claiming that sonic differences between them are just a figment of imagination which proves to me that his (!) measurements aren't simply good enough to explain the differences that so many people are easily able to hear.

 

Kal says - a cable 'HF roll-off'. My intuition and experience with equalisation tells me that this might be more than just HF roll-off. If I was to draw what an extremely bright cable FR (audible range) the way I 'hear' it, it would probably look approximately like this :

 

 

An extremely dark cable FR would obviously look like this:

 

 

 

I bet we don't have to do with just HF roll-off here. And if my theory is true this could explain the subwoofer cables sonic differences - obviously different proportions of high- to mid- to low-bass could be their cause.

 

I remember how (quite unexpectedly for me) my system's bass changes with as little as 0,1 - 0,2 db eqalisation in 20 - 60 Hz (my subs) range. At the same time I know not all subwoofers will reveal these differences so vividly. And not all ears will grasp them too.

 

Any reflexions on that, guys.?

[plissken]

Or actual experience. They didn't make actual sub cables at the time, but you can clearly hear the differences on the Kinergetics Research SW800's I had paired with my Martin Logan's. But those subs are clearly in a different league than what the OP has. Imagination may cut it for you, but it doesn't for me. No experiance = no opinion.

 

Then it should either show measurement wise or disappear when sighted evaluations are nixed from the equation.

[mansr]

I'm not an audio measurements specialist as far as cables or any other audio gear are concerned. Some guys here are much better in theoretical field than I am. Somebody here (I don't recall who) even professionally measures electrical properties of cables claiming that sonic differences between them are just a figment of imagination which proves to me that his (!) measurements aren't simply good enough to explain the differences that so many people are easily able to hear.

 

Kal says - a cable 'HF roll-off'. My intuition and experience with equalisation tells me that this might be more than just HF roll-off. If I was to draw what an extremely bright cable FR (audible range) the way I 'hear' it, it would probably look approximately like this :

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28901[/ATTACH]

 

An extremely dark cable FR would obviously look like this:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28902[/ATTACH]

 

 

I bet we don't have to do with just HF roll-off here. And if my theory is true this could explain the subwoofer cables sonic differences - obviously different proportions of high- to mid- to low-bass could be their cause.

 

A cable of basic construction, i.e. two metal conductors separated by an insulator, has a small series resistance, a very large parallel resistance, a series inductance, and a parallel capacitance. The result of this is an attenuation that increases with increasing frequency. There is no way it can produce a low-frequency roll-off. The only way that can happen is if there is a series capacitance, and that simply doesn't occur. "Cables" with filter boxes at one or both ends can of course do pretty much anything, but then we're not really talking about cables any more.

[sphinxsix]

A cable of basic construction, i.e. two metal conductors separated by an insulator, has a small series resistance, a very large parallel resistance, a series inductance, and a parallel capacitance. The result of this is an attenuation that increases with increasing frequency. There is no way it can produce a low-frequency roll-off. The only way that can happen is if there is a series capacitance, and that simply doesn't occur. "Cables" with filter boxes at one or both ends can of course do pretty much anything, but then we're not really talking about cables any more.

What makes some cables' bass 'fat' and others' 'lean' for example then.?

[mansr]

What is the reason then of some cables' 'fat' and others' 'lean' bass for example?

Imagination, most likely.

[sphinxsix]

Imagination, most likely.

The right to remain unconvinced is a basic right of any human being