The end of digital audio.?

[mansr]

As long as your TT is set up properly, its pretty hard to wear out a record. You'd really have to put some effort into it.

 

You might still accidentally damage it.

[Sal1950]

Primarily for the sake of time, effort, expense and convenience, I haven't embarked on ripping my LPs (somewhere between 500 and 1000). I'd have to purchase an ADC, but the biggest factor is just time, in big enough chunks to get an album or two or three digitized. Right now my time is way too broken up. And even after I retire I can think of more enjoyable ways to spend extended periods.

 

And for what purpose would I be performing this task? To avoid putting a record on my turntable and playing it (which I'm not attached to as a ritual, but don't especially mind)? Taking 30 seconds occasionally to do this is fine with me. I do admire the folks who've got everything digitized and metadata'd to a fare-thee-well (though I suspect them of obsessive tendencies ).

It is a heavy task. In my case after my retirement I spent about 6 months involved in the process of sprucing up my 33 year home for sale, selling the majority of it's contents on ebay, etc; then packing up what I was bringing with me in the move.

I first prepared with a complete tuneup of my TT, new belt, cleaning, lube, etc. And then most days as I worked on the above chores I would walk in and out of the computer room where I had moved the TT and carry out the whole vinyl side playing ritual for approximately 500 LP's, PHEW. Since I've always been a whole album listener, I never played around with slicing up the sides into separate tracks. Just a Side A and Side B file created almost automatically as I stop and started the ripping process for flipping. I do retain the original Audacity files if the urge should come over me. (NOT!) LOL

 

Beyond the convenience of playback, the space gained from loss of the TT and accessories, the LP's them selves, nothing to clean and dust, etc, etc. The more I write and think the happier I am.

[17629v2]

You might still accidentally damage it.

 

You're right. I can't imagine anything worse than scratching a record. My whole life would be ruined.

[bluesman]

I first prepared with a complete tuneup of my TT, new belt, cleaning, lube, etc. And then most days as I worked on the above chores I would walk in and out of the computer room where I had moved the TT and carry out the whole vinyl side playing ritual for approximately 500 LP's...Beyond the convenience of playback, the space gained from loss of the TT and accessories, the LP's them selves, nothing to clean and dust...

...no art for enjoyment and no notes for reading and learning. I can't imagine the vinyl experience without the add-ons, and I often take out the corresponding album to read and look at the jacket and liner while listening to the content from a digital file.

 

TT setup is critical for best performance, so I assume you optimized your tonearm & cartridge parameters too. But the most important step before ripping well played vinyl is thorough cleaning.

 

Sadly, I can't find any source for liner notes - there are a few websites with very limited snatches, but I assume that the reproduction of enough album jackets to make the effort worthwhile would require huge resources and big payments to the record companies. There is also no source for cover art beyond limited, genre-specific books. This is a major lack.

 

 

 

[Sal1950]

...no art for enjoyment and no notes for reading and learning. I can't imagine the vinyl experience without the add-ons, and I often take out the corresponding album to read and look at the jacket and liner while listening to the content from a digital file.

 

TT setup is critical for best performance, so I assume you optimized your tonearm & cartridge parameters too. But the most important step before ripping well played vinyl is thorough cleaning.

 

Yes sadly their is that. But in reality that ended when I got my first CD player and no longer purchased new LP's.

I also lament the fact that I didn't add any metanotes as to the provenance of the LP, label, pressing, and all that so in discussions I know which versions I own.

 

Of course my TT was optimally set up, I'd only been learning and doing such for 30 years.

[firedog]

Pretty good source for album covers: albumartexchange.com

[mansr]

Pretty good source for album covers: albumartexchange.com

Some good stuff there. Unfortunately, it seems to be geoblocking most of the world at the moment.

[Confused]

I read a while ago that many of the lower priced TT's being bought by the 'younger generation' result from a kind of curiosity resulting from finding a large box of vinyl, most likely in their parents, or even grand parents loft. Whilst in a very optimistic mood, I have a vision of a small percentage of kids doing this maybe getting hooked, interested in what they are doing. They have their TT, maybe some old Led Zeppelin album they found, so what do they do now? Hook it up to the living room surround amp maybe, feed it stereo to the best speakers that happen to be around? If just 0.5 percent of the kids doing this get interested, maybe weaned off their computer speakers and 320kbs downloads, eyes (and ears) opened to the possibilities, this can only be a good thing? Maybe a small number will end up gracing this forum in a few years time, hooked on beautifully reproduced music.

 

For me, I long ago gave up any notion that vinyl was top dog for sound quality, strange then that I recently bought what some might consider quite an expensive turntable. Why? I have a house (and garage) full of thousands of vinyl albums, 12" singles, 7" singles, all sorts of stuff, so I need something to play them on! It has been a while since I've actually bought anything new on vinyl, it's both expensive and pointless, digital is king now except for very irrational considerations. I still love my vinyl though, it is very precious.

[mansr]

digital is king now except for very irrational considerations.

 

Irrational like digital releases, whether CD or downloads, being compressed to death while the vinyl is reasonable.

[Confused]

Irrational like digital releases, whether CD or downloads, being compressed to death while the vinyl is reasonable.

I wouldn't argue with that! A case of the format itself being far less importatant than the skill and care taken during mastering. But that's another story I guess....

[firedog]

Some good stuff there. Unfortunately, it seems to be geoblocking most of the world at the moment.

 

I use a VPN with my location as Japan and it lets me in

[sphinxsix]

I use a VPN with my location as Japan and it lets me in

VPN often seems to work with geoblocking music downloads sites too.

[One and a half]

LP and digital files can co-exist, depends on the user's preference. As for which format sounds better, the spec for digital on paper is far better for digital, but exceptional recordings are rare, the majority is hobbled by poor technical, artistic and commercial management. New vinyl is based on digital file content, so add clicks, pops, scratches, lower DR, wear an tear..... Some people are happy with this, no problems, enjoy.

 

I gave up on vinyl in the 80's, so 30 years later, I don't miss it, one iota.

[sphinxsix]

 

I gave up on vinyl in the 80's, so 30 years later, I don't miss it, one iota.

I don't miss it either. I downloaded a couple of 24bit vinyl rips just to check them out sonically. The moment I hear the 'frying eggs' noise of worn out vinyl I press the 'stop' button as fast as I can. I believe a good TT can sound great but old vinyl can't. And the new releases use usually digital masters so they in fact should be called 'digital vinyl' or 'digital analogue'...

[Cornan]

LP and digital files can co-exist, depends on the user's preference. As for which format sounds better, the spec for digital on paper is far better for digital, but exceptional recordings are rare, the majority is hobbled by poor technical, artistic and commercial management. New vinyl is based on digital file content, so add clicks, pops, scratches, lower DR, wear an tear..... Some people are happy with this, no problems, enjoy.

 

I gave up on vinyl in the 80's, so 30 years later, I don't miss it, one iota.

I am in the same camp. However, I think it is unfair that LP's in general have better quality recordings than digital files. IMO the quality of the recordings is actually just as important (if not more important) than the choise of DSD, WAV, FLAC or lossless FLAC. Just my 2 cents.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Kimo]

Lately, it seems like I can't find a new vinyl release of interest not cut from a digital file. I would say digital is alive and well.

[loop7]

Like others have remarked, conventional computer audio (using productivity computers for audio) may fade over time, replaced with specialty devices.

 

The vinyl resurgence will likely continue to grow but never surpass digital listening or, if it does, I think a lot of us will be flabbergasted.

[new_media]

Lately, it seems like I can't find a new vinyl release of interest not cut from a digital file. I would say digital is alive and well.

 

Peter Buck of R.E.M. has released a couple of solo albums cut directly to vinyl from analogue tape, and he talked about how hard it is to even find the equipment for that workflow in recent years:

[Sal1950]

This little vinyl hiccup is quite quaint and Kool too.

I own a mint 1925 Atwater Kent Model 20 in good original working condition. Kind of incredible really, it worked when I bought it from a collector in the late 70s. Looking inside it has 5 very old RCA 01A tubes and nothing on the breadboard appear to have ever been touched. I used to file it up now and then for friends when there was a radio station in Chicago that would replay some old radio shows of the 20-30s. A real hoot but I haven't bothered with it in years. Hi Fi 91 years ago LOL.

 

I also have a mint 1939 Zenith 5-S-319. I had it recapped a few years back and it plays well. In remembrance of those who died in WW2 I usually fire it up around Dec 7 Pearl Harbor Day. I think back to this radio being the centerpiece of some families living room with all members gathered around it listening to reports of the attack, President Roosevelt's most famous speech, and all the reports/Fireside Chats that came after.. HiFi 77 years ago

 

Also used to have a couple classic tube systems in different rooms of my old digs. Dynaco ST70, Altec horns, stuff like that.

Sadly no room for all that after the move to retirement digs and all that now sold. HiFi approx 57 years ago

 

Point being that to think this little vinyl hump will last in any numbers beyond the next decade or so is misguided, CD's are dead and downloading files is grasping for air. The immediate future probably now looks to be for instant gratification via streaming like Tidal offering anything you desire with a click or two.

 

We won't recognize what the music distribution thing will look like in another 50-90 years.

[sphinxsix]

Contrary to what the fact that I have begun this thread could suggest I'm a digital guy. In the old 'vinyl days' I couldn't afford anything more than a low-to-mid-fi TT and cessette deck system. The begining of the new 'digital era' was a (a first word that comes to my mind) relief for many reasons.

 

That's right - the early CD players sounded slightly 'mechanica' I think would be the right word in comparison to LPs but you could forget about the whole vinyl noise, clicks, starting playback time consuming rituals and what's maybe most important - wearing out of the medium!

 

Since then I had very rarely an occasion to listen to vinyl. Recently only one friend of mine uses a TT. He's not an audiophile. Sometimes I ask him to make a comparison between CD and LP. Well, I can't really draw a conclusion from this comparison for a couple of reasons. First of all - his TT was 5 times more expensive than his Marantz CD player. Both are quite old BTW. Secondly his Mission speakers do have a character of their own. They are on the bright-and-thin side of neutral let's say. Anyway I have to admit in most cases I do prefer his vinyl system. The warmer, more fullbodied, smoother sound compensates for slightly too warm and too slow (for me) bass, and worse dynamics. Well, it's pretty sure his TT is a better match for his speakers. I'm not mentioning his Sonneteer amp as it is a very neutral device.

 

For me the limitations of Redbook are clear. I'm not only a 'digital guy', I'm also a 'hi-res' one. I can easily believe that a good gramophone can sound better than a CD player. What I'm curious about as I don't have chance of comparing a real high-end gramophone with a high-end DAC playing 24bit/DSD is why the analogue guys prefer LP to hi-res digital. Could you please describe the differences you hear that are the reason for your preference using as precise terms as possible as far as timbral, rhythmic, dynamic, spatial etc. qualities of sound are concerned (sorry I won't accept expressons like 'wellll...the sound is simply analogue..' ). Thx in advance for sharing your impressions on the subject.

[livelistenlearn]

Contrary to what the fact that I have begun this thread could suggest I'm a digital guy.

 

Since then I had very rarely an occasion to listen to vinyl. Recently only one friend of mine uses a TT. He's not an audiophile. Sometimes I ask him to make a comparison between CD and LP. Anyway I have to admit in most cases I do prefer his vinyl system. The warmer, more fullbodied, smoother sound compensates for slightly too warm and too slow (for me) bass, and worse dynamics. Well, it's pretty sure his TT is a better match for his speakers. I'm not mentioning his Sonneteer amp as it is a very neutral device.

 

As Uncle Einstein said: it is all relative.

A good CD set-up can sound better than a vinyl set-up.

Depends on which set-up, what album, where/how… and who is listening.

Same conditions apply for CA systems.

IME, good systems with good front-ends sound different for different good reasons.

However, when it comes to 'dollar-to-dollar accuracy’, the (theoretical) argument may be in favour of today’s CA systems... which are still evolving rapidly.

That said,

in all honesty,

how many of us (consciously or unconsciously) ‘tune’ our listening systems for as flat a frequency response as possible?

[Norton]

What I'm curious about as I don't have chance of comparing a real high-end gramophone with a high-end DAC playing 24bit/DSD is why the analogue guys prefer LP to hi-res digital. Could you please describe the differences you hear that are the reason for your preference using as precise terms as possible as far as timbral, rhythmic, dynamic, spatial etc. qualities of sound are concerned (sorry I won't accept expressons like 'wellll...the sound is simply analogue..' ). Thx in advance for sharing your impressions on the subject.

 

I use both formats daily so have no axe to grind and, having spent a similar significant sum on replacements for both my digital and vinyl front ends in the past 12 months, no particular expectation bias.

 

But as you asked, the following is what I hear in my system, listening almost 100% to orchestral classical and with mainly original vinyl from the late 50s to 70s:

 

with vinyl there's more sense that you're listening to live music with the performers and instruments sharing your listening room and located individually in the space. Separation of instruments and notes is clearer and "airier", whereas digital can sound muddy by comparison.

 

Specifically ( and this is difficult to process when you first hear it) the sound is "bigger" without being louder, in other words the sound is solid, textured, 3d, so it gives a sense that you can almost touch it. A plucked string for example has much more weight and complexity of sound as it decays. Bass is cleaner and more powerful, so that drums have much more "slam"; while percussion and brass in particular can be truly breathtaking in scale and realism. Low level detail retrieval is also significantly better.

 

For me, vinyl is a vivid, realistic, dynamic and immersive experience that demands your attention, in no sense"easy listening", while digital offers a cool, orderly, polite representation of the music.

 

If digital is a ride in the back seat of a luxury saloon, then vinyl is piloting a 70s Italian superbike down a twisty B road. Sometimes I prefer the limo...

[sphinxsix]

I use both formats daily so have no axe to grind and, having spent a similar significant sum on replacements for both my digital and vinyl front ends in the past 12 months, no particular expectation bias.

 

But as you asked, the following is what I hear in my system, listening almost 100% to orchestral classical and with mainly original vinyl from the late 50s to 70s:

 

with vinyl there's more sense that you're listening to live music with the performers and instruments sharing your listening room and located individually in the space. Separation of instruments and notes is clearer and "airier", whereas digital can sound muddy by comparison.

 

Specifically ( and this is difficult to process when you first hear it) the sound is "bigger" without being louder, in other words the sound is solid, textured, 3d, so it gives a sense that you can almost touch it. A plucked string for example has much more weight and complexity of sound as it decays. Bass is cleaner and more powerful, so that drums have much more "slam"; while percussion and brass in particular can be truly breathtaking in scale and realism. Low level detail retrieval is also significantly better.

 

For me, vinyl is a vivid, realistic, dynamic and immersive experience that demands your attention, in no sense"easy listening", while digital offers a cool, orderly, polite representation of the music.

 

If digital is a ride in the back seat of a luxury saloon, then vinyl is piloting a 70s Italian superbike down a twisty B road. Sometimes I prefer the limo...

Do you also happen to listen to hi-res vinyl rips? To what degree they retain the sonic qualities of the original vinyl?

[Norton]

Do you also happen to listen to hi-res vinyl rips? To what degree they retain the sonic qualities of the original vinyl?

 

Not part of my listening experience so can't report. I do have a number of the same analogue recordings in both vinyl and CD re-issue and one or two also on SACD. While some of these CDs are amongst my favourite digital listening, everything I've outlined above still applies.

[kilroy]

Convenience will always win, period. Nothing convenient about records and turntables.