Forget storage comparison. Even the same storage can sound different with different file copying methods

[davide256]

Can you confirm that the SD cards used for comparison were identical? If storage size (default block size) and class (latency) were different I could understand as the characteristics of the read data stream would be different. If same, this would be a quandary.

[sphinxsix]

This is nonsense. I have hard drives with data that was written in the '90s, and they're still perfectly fine. Magnetic hard drives do not simply fade. High temperatures or strong external magnetic fields might of course cause data corruption, but that doesn't appear to be what this is about.

 

Flash based storage is a different matter. Regular NAND flash such as found in SD cards and phones typically specifies a data retention of at least 10 years although abnormally high temperatures can reduce this. High-performance SSDs might use flash memory with shorter retention. If this is the case, the built-in controller will move data around regularly to avoid losing any with no need for manual maintenance. There have been reports of SSDs suffering corruption after being left unpowered for several months, though some questioned their veracity.

 

No common storage devices require any kind of maintenance to retain data when used normally.

 

 

Thx mansr, I was counting on your opinion on this subject.

 

 

As for :

 

'In the case of music, this can be heard by an increase in hiss, a loss of fidelity, and a loss in volume. The main problem with digital data is the loss of volume. This is the main method the drive uses to separate 1’s from 0’s.'

 

That's ridiculous indeed.

[mansr]

This is nonsense. I have hard drives with data that was written in the '90s, and they're still perfectly fine. Magnetic hard drives do not simply fade. High temperatures or strong external magnetic fields might of course cause data corruption, but that doesn't appear to be what this is about.

 

Flash based storage is a different matter. Regular NAND flash such as found in SD cards and phones typically specifies a data retention of at least 10 years although abnormally high temperatures can reduce this. High-performance SSDs might use flash memory with shorter retention. If this is the case, the built-in controller will move data around regularly to avoid losing any with no need for manual maintenance. There have been reports of SSDs suffering corruption after being left unpowered for several months, though some questioned their veracity.

 

No common storage devices require any kind of maintenance to retain data when used normally.

That said, hard drives do eventually fail. Especially on a lightly used drive, a periodic scan may detect beginning deterioration in time to recover most of the data. This will not, however, prolong the life of the drive. As always, a good backup strategy is highly recommended.

[sphinxsix]

That said, hard drives do eventually fail. Especially on a lightly used drive, a periodic scan may detect beginning deterioration in time to recover most of the data. This will not, however, prolong the life of the drive. As always, a good backup strategy is highly recommended.

What kind of scan (program) would you recommend?

[Paul R]

I just find it interesting. I'm not convinced to think it's true or not. But yeah, magnetic signal shouldn't affect playback volume, at least from SPL measurement. Not sure about SNR though.

 

Have you tried Ultracopier software with my suggested configuration yet? I'd love to hear your test result.

 

Regards,

Keetakawee

 

I found it very interesting that you and your friends heard a difference at all. I remain unconvinced that the same files on the same media sound different though.

 

-Paul

[mansr]

What kind of scan (program) would you recommend?

If it's FLAC files, verifying them with a decoder is guaranteed to spot any errors. It is also good practice to monitor the SMART status of hard drives and replace them if any errors are reported regardless of whether data corruption has been seen.

[alfe]

I found it very interesting that you and your friends heard a difference at all. I remain unconvinced that the same files on the same media sound different though.

 

-Paul

 

Read my link P11&P14, I wasn't pulling your leg in the other thread:)

[Windows X]

Has anyone tried this yet? Allow me tell you step-by-step to test this out.

 

1. Download and install ultracopier from https://ultracopier.first-world.info/download-all.html

 

2. Go to tray icon, select options and configure performance like this.

 

 

3. Reboot

 

4. Click on music file, press Ctrl-C then Ctrl-V. You should get 'music - Copy' file. I recommend WAV format because uncompressed should be easier to notice than lossy/lossless.

 

5. Drag 'music' and 'music - Copy' files into player and listen.

[alfe]

Has anyone tried this yet? Allow me tell you step-by-step to test this out.

 

1. Download and install ultracopier from https://ultracopier.first-world.info/download-all.html

 

2. Go to tray icon, select options and configure performance like this.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28609[/ATTACH]

 

3. Reboot

 

4. Click on music file, press Ctrl-C then Ctrl-V. You should get 'music - Copy' file. I recommend WAV format because uncompressed should be easier to notice than lossy/lossless.

 

5. Drag 'music' and 'music - Copy' files into player and listen.

 

You didn't like my link about buffer size, host drive bus, SD bus, host controller synchronising SDCLK and duty cycle distortion.

You prefer the volume control of your link:)

BTW do not extrapolate to HDD and SSD different beasts.

[Windows X]

You didn't like my link about buffer size, host drive bus, SD bus, host controller synchronising SDCLK and duty cycle distortion.

You prefer the volume control of your link:)

BTW do not extrapolate to HDD and SSD different beasts.

 

I just posted about how to test with ultracopier. How is it related to me not liking your link? That's just the theory paper. You need to look into physical equipment and see how it actually work. Interference during writing data can also affect data reading accuracy you know? Sony didn't release Premium Sound micro sd card to reduce measured noise for nothing.

 

I recommend you to try ultracopier first. I know most engineers and google doctor don't like to bother works outside google search if it doesn't make sense to them but that way of thinking is really wrong and most pointless arguments in this world came from such people being too stubbornly lazy to verify the cause themselves.

 

Regards,

Keetakawee

[alfe]

I just posted about how to test with ultracopier. How is it related to me not liking your link? That's just the theory paper. You need to look into physical equipment and see how it actually work. Interference during writing data can also affect data reading accuracy you know? Sony didn't release Premium Sound micro sd card to reduce measured noise for nothing.

 

I recommend you to try ultracopier first. I know most engineers and google doctor don't like to bother works outside google search if it doesn't make sense to them but that way of thinking is really wrong and most pointless arguments in this world came from such people being too stubbornly lazy to verify the cause themselves.

 

Regards,

Keetakawee

 

Well I see, even if I confirm and give an explanation why it happen you still attack me.

Then bye.

[Windows X]

Well I see, even if I confirm and give an explanation why it happen you still attack me.

Then bye.

 

Seriously? I shared step-by-step method to test with ultracopier and you told me I didn't like your link. I'm not sure who's trying to attack first. I read into it and explained it to you why it doesn't work that way. Some people in past caused a ruckus because they kept arguing but never try to do something for real.

 

I apologize if you find it offensive. I didn't meant to refer that you're causing that situation. I'm just trying to warn you that debating without the same experience will never see the same thing but as I've been trying to convince you and other people to try this for a long while without success, I may have said something unpleasant to you.

 

It's OK if you want to stop here if you don't feel like to continue talking. We'll never see the same thing without trying the same test so it might actually be better to stop at this.

 

Regards,

Keetakawee

[plissken]

Not buying for a second that MD5 files sound different.

[sandyk]

Not buying for a second that MD5 files sound different.

 

Who cares what you believe ?

[plissken]

Who cares what you believe ?

 

So far I'm batting 1000 with what I believe and I have the threads to back it up.

[sandyk]

So far I'm batting 1000 with what I believe and I have the threads to back it up.

 

You couldn't organise a fair, unbiased and scientifically meaningful test if your life depended on it !

[sphinxsix]

If it's FLAC files, verifying them with a decoder is guaranteed to spot any errors. It is also good practice to monitor the SMART status of hard drives and replace them if any errors are reported regardless of whether data corruption has been seen.

I will check the SMART status of my HDs. They are only 3-5 years old but I like peace of mind..

[Sal1950]

Not buying for a second that MD5 files sound different.

 

Who cares what you believe ?

 

Us folks who don't believe in Santa Claus and Magic Dust delustions.

[davide256]

Not buying for a second that MD5 files sound different.

. This is a playback media discussion. Please cease and desist with off topic troll comments

[sandyk]

Us folks who don't believe in Santa Claus and Magic Dust delustions.

 

Perhaps if you had been riding your bike with your helmet on you wouldn't be so deaf now ?

 

"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD,

you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist. - Cookie Marenco"

[Sal1950]

Perhaps if you had been riding your bike with your helmet on you wouldn't be so deaf now ?

 

"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD,

you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist. - Cookie Marenco"

 

Oh, I know, just trust your ears, the numbers mean nothing. LOL

[mansr]

Oh, I know, just trust your ears, the numbers mean nothing. LOL

 

No, trust Cookie's ears.

 

Now here's the thing, I do trust her ears to produce great-sounding recordings. I just don't trust her explanations for why they sound great.

[sandyk]

No, trust Cookie's ears.

 

Now here's the thing, I do trust her ears to produce great-sounding recordings. I just don't trust her explanations for why they sound great.

 

In case Sal and yourself haven't noticed, there are now quite a few members who have reported a preference for the sound of .wav over flac, and an increasing number of members who now report hearing things that hard line Objective members like yourselves insist is impossible, and they are also just as Cookie has stated.

Windows X is just the most recent to say so here.

[mansr]

In case Sal and yourself haven't noticed, there are now quite a few members who have reported a preference for the sound of .wav over flac, and an increasing number of members who now report hearing things that hard line Objective members like yourselves insist is impossible, and they are also just as Cookie has stated.

Windows X is just the most recent to say so here.

 

I still trust the maths behind FLAC as well as the fact that an encode/decode cycle demonstrably doesn't alter the sample values. Whatever you lot are hearing, it's caused by something else.

[alfe]

I still trust the maths behind FLAC as well as the fact that an encode/decode cycle demonstrably doesn't alter the sample values. Whatever you lot are hearing, it's caused by something else.

 

It's time to learn how to use a measuring tape:)