Clean power should have it's own subforum

[whoozwah]

Mexicans like clean power too.

[christopher3393]

Mexicans like clean power too.

 

Clean Power to the People!

 

 

Sorry, back to topic.

[alfe]

Clean Power to the People!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28542[/ATTACH]

 

Sorry, back to topic.

 

You are kidding? 241.85 tons of CO2 to manufacture and about 30% efficiency.

[christopher3393]

You are kidding? 241.85 tons of CO2 to manufacture and about 30% efficiency.

 

Sorry, it's my understanding that wind power, in spite of its inefficiency, is still part of the package in clean energy proposals... must have dreamed this...I stand corrected...happy to see your solution...on another thread. Bye now.

[Jud]

You are kidding? 241.85 tons of CO2 to manufacture and about 30% efficiency.

 

At 2 pounds of CO2 per kwh, and 11,000kwh per year used in the average American home, that's 22 tons per home per year. So powering 11 homes for a year would completely make up the turbine's "carbon debt." One wind turbine powers about 1500 homes per year, so it makes up its full carbon debt in 11/1500 of a year, or about 2 days and 16 hours.

 

Isn't math wonderful?

[One and a half]

A wind turbine consists of a rotor (the prop we see), a gearbox and motor. The motor has voltage applied, since it's driven by the wind acts as a generator, and the excess power is transferred to the grid via a 4 quadrant variable speed drive, typically an LCI design. The wind turbine needs voltage from the grid, it cannot generate power without it.

 

The power out of a turbine is several MW, which leads to a considerable mechanical problem. The motor and gearbox are large devices weighing several tons with extremely small tolerances for movement, typically 0.5-10 mm/s vibration on the ground. Now transfer that tolerance to 30m in the air, swinging in the breeze, plus variable axial loads caused by the prop, and already the MTBF tanks not in tens of thousands of hours anymore.

 

Add on the effect of lightning and bird strikes, the NIMBY effect, it means that larger arrays end up in the ocean. Literally, add salt into the wounds, the MTBF is lower again due to corrosion.

 

Wind power is not so free after all, it's about 1.5 x + the cost of a coal fired power station to run. As a consumer, we then pay quite a bit more for a renewable energy source, renewable with spare parts!

 

I'd like a small turbine for my house, but the red tape of local council and environmental compliance are not worth the bother.

[alfe]

At 2 pounds of CO2 per kwh, and 11,000kwh per year used in the average American home, that's 22 tons per home per year. So powering 11 homes for a year would completely make up the turbine's "carbon debt." One wind turbine powers about 1500 homes per year, so it makes up its full carbon debt in 11/1500 of a year, or about 2 days and 16 hours.

 

Isn't math wonderful?

 

 

https://stopthesethings.com/2015/07/20/the-wind-power-fraud-in-pictures-part-1-the-south-australian-wind-farm-fiasco/

https://stopthesethings.com/2015/07/21/the-wind-power-fraud-in-pictures-part-2-the-whole-eastern-grid-debacle/

 

To be clear I believe that global warming is a fact and that we should fight for our planet.

[YashN]

with at least half a dozen threads on the front page of the general forum and most likely countless more, it seems a reasonable statement to say that there's enough conversation around this topic to merit it.

 

caveats; imo/ymmv/wtfbbqlol and so on

 

I must have missed the half a dozen threads about it, but there's a big thread about it:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/ac-filtering-grounding-boxes-linear-power-supply-unit-and-balanced-power-24916/

[Jud]

https://stopthesethings.com/2015/07/20/the-wind-power-fraud-in-pictures-part-1-the-south-australian-wind-farm-fiasco/

https://stopthesethings.com/2015/07/21/the-wind-power-fraud-in-pictures-part-2-the-whole-eastern-grid-debacle/

 

To be clear I believe that global warming is a fact and that we should fight for our planet.

 

Certainly wind power is not above criticism. I just like criticisms to be made for logical reasons because other criticisms distract from a clear discussion of the significant issues. Carbon cost of manufacture is not one of the logical criticisms of wind power because the energy the turbines generate offsets it so quickly.

[gstanley75]

Other part of clean is the waveform/distortion in the power. Anyone have good info on noise/distortion from solar power inverters. I was told last year that levels from solar power inverter were 10 to 50x higher than mains. But info was sketchy. Anyone know better? Same question for local wind power?

 

Final thought- nice clean DC off solar and bypass all the power supplies in my system.

[alfe]

Certainly wind power is not above criticism. I just like criticisms to be made for logical reasons because other criticisms distract from a clear discussion of the significant issues. Carbon cost of manufacture is not one of the logical criticisms of wind power because the energy the turbines generate offsets it so quickly.

 

Except that you are exaggerating your numbers, a wind turbine powers 332 american homes per year, and you happily forget the carbon cost of maintenance, plus depending if you use gas or coal the balance will be different.

Anyhow I'm not a specialist of renewable energy but we should spend more money in R&D for clean power, instead we prefer to spend more in weapons R&D.

[christopher3393]

Except that you are exaggerating your numbers, a wind turbine powers 332 american homes per year, and you happily forget the carbon cost of maintenance, plus depending if you use gas or coal the balance will be different.

Anyhow I'm not a specialist of renewable energy but we should spend more money in R&D for clean power, instead we prefer to spend more in weapons R&D.

 

Alfe: Do you think clean power should have its own subforum?

[alfe]

Alfe: Do you think clean power should have its own subforum?

 

No, "bit-perfect" power is more important for the coming generations.

[Jud]

Other part of clean is the waveform/distortion in the power. Anyone have good info on noise/distortion from solar power inverters. I was told last year that levels from solar power inverter were 10 to 50x higher than mains. But info was sketchy. Anyone know better? Same question for local wind power?

 

Final thought- nice clean DC off solar and bypass all the power supplies in my system.

 

Don't know about wind. Have been looking into solar, and especially 50x sounds like either an exaggeration or old news. There are some (though certainly not all) inverters that match the distortion figures required of electrical utilities in the US (which IIRC is around 2% THD coming into the home; there are other requirements but that's the primary one I was looking at).

 

So clean power (in the audio sense) wouldn't be a reason to use solar, but with at least some of the available inverters it doesn't look like a reason *not* to.

[Iain]

Clean Power to the People!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28542[/ATTACH]

 

Sorry, back to topic.

 

You are kidding? 241.85 tons of CO2 to manufacture and about 30% efficiency.

 

Indeed.

 

Solar panel manufacturing have the same problems:

Solar Energy Isn’t Always as Green as You Think - IEEE Spectrum

 

[/OT]

[christopher3393]

Indeed.

 

Solar panel manufacturing have the same problems:

Solar Energy Isn’t Always as Green as You Think - IEEE Spectrum

 

[/OT]

 

Yes,yes,yes, the USA should be doing most of its own manufacturing of these products to rigorous standards, etc, etc. And there has to be continued development to improve this tech, explore further alternatives for reducing carbon footprint, etc., etc. Nothing surprising. These criticisms have been rehearsed often enough. Solutions? Get rid of the humans? Start with the audiophiles?

[Hailey]

You mean ITS, not IT'S.

 

Grammar should have its own subforum

[Iain]

[OT]

 

Yes,yes,yes, the USA should be doing most of its own manufacturing of these products to rigorous standards, etc, etc. ...

 

... as well as Britain and the EU.

 

[/OT]

[Jud]

You mean ITS, not IT'S.

 

Grammar should have its own subforum

 

Auto-correct is the bane of correct use of its and it's.

 

Yes, let's have a sub-forum for grammar - we can call it the "No Fun" section.

[alfe]

Yes,yes,yes, the USA should be doing most of its own manufacturing of these products to rigorous standards, etc, etc. And there has to be continued development to improve this tech, explore further alternatives for reducing carbon footprint, etc., etc. Nothing surprising. These criticisms have been rehearsed often enough. Solutions? Get rid of the humans? Start with the audiophiles?

:

 

As a first step stop being the leader of this list:

 

Average household electricity use around the world – shrinkthatfootprint.com

[Jud]

:

 

As first step top being the leader of this list:

 

Average household electricity use around the world – shrinkthatfootprint.com

 

Yes, the easiest, cheapest, and most accessible (low tech and expense) way to make less CO2 is to use less energy, particularly for heating and cooling.

 

My wife and I are in the middle of working with a builder on designing our future home in a location that luckily gets a lot of sun. All the alternatives are exciting, and at the same time challenging to choose among wisely.

[christopher3393]

:

 

As a first step stop being the leader of this list:

 

Average household electricity use around the world – shrinkthatfootprint.com

 

Blame Canada.

[rrwwss52]

That a pretty decent average household use stat. I make 10Kw annually from solar, and have a outstanding balance to my electric company of $200-$400 per year.

[sandyk]

:

 

As a first step stop being the leader of this list:

 

Average household electricity use around the world – shrinkthatfootprint.com

 

In the case of my family, the failure of the clothes dryer was a godsend. It made them get used to having to stop washing clothes only hours before they were needed, and start putting all washed clothes on the existing clothesline !

It has saved as high as $300 a quarter !!! (a family of 6, with 3 teenagers)

[alfe]

In the case of my family, the failure of the clothes dryer was a godsend. It made them get used to having to stop washing clothes only hours before they were needed, and start putting all washed clothes on the existing clothesline !

It has saved as high as $300 a quarter !!! (a family of 6, with 3 teenagers)

 

Funny all your posts are about cleaning devices