PlayClassics TRT v2.0 master file giveaway for CA members

[Mario Martinez]

Hah, I forgot about commas versus decimal points momentarily and was wondering why I would need to have my speakers miles apart!

 

Mario, very nice indeed to see you back here with these files of very beautiful music. Though I'm traveling and can only listen through headphones for a while, I would very much appreciate the code for the new Albeniz Iberia and Cabrera Debussy.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Thanks Jud, its nice to see you too.

 

I sent you a PM with everything, the two albums and the experimental samples.

 

I cannot wait until you are able to hear this on your regular setup

[Nikhil]

So does it work? Do the drums produce a real size image on your system?

 

 

The drums imaged beautifully as per your description

Having information like this really makes listening enjoyable.

 

My speakers are set 7 ft apart.

 

After hearing the drum test tracks the Rock track was a little underwhelming.

The drums in the rock track are muted in comparison and seem somewhat restrained.

The musicians also seem to be a little tentative at the beginning before settling in later.

Rock may not be suited for this setup in my opinion.

[Mario Martinez]

The drums imaged beautifully as per your description

Having information like this really makes listening enjoyable.

 

My speakers are set 7 ft apart.

 

After hearing the drum test tracks the Rock track was a little underwhelming.

The drums in the rock track are muted in comparison and seem somewhat restrained.

The musicians also seem to be a little tentative at the beginning before settling in later.

Rock may not be suited for this setup in my opinion.

 

 

Hi Nikhil,

 

thanks so much for the feedback

 

I understand what you are saying about the rock sample…

 

Please keep in mind that this kind of experiment has never been done before. Yes, there might be some rock recordings that have been made without the use of close miking, but even if they were recorded using only two microphones, they were mixed/mastered to try to achieve the particular rock sound that the engineer/producer had in mind. This mixing/mastering process is not a choice, it is a must. When you record any instrument on any room, hall or studio, the sound of the take is always deformed by the acoustics of that particular venue. You need to mix/master it to make it sound "good". Plus you also have to take into account the fact that, if they were recording an album, the musicians probably spent countless hours trying different settings in their instruments to get the best possible sound out of them.

 

Here we have something different. We are not mixing or mastering anything. What you are hearing is just the "true" sound of the instruments. Getting our setup to produce that "true" sound is what has taken us 8 years of research. The hall has been worked during years of trail and error to try to minimize all the acoustic problems and the calibration has been developed specifically for that hall to take care of whatever acoustic problems were left. That way, when you record any instruments in this setup, you know that what you are hearing on the recording is the "true" sound of the instrument without any coloration or deformation. This does not mean that the sound on the recording is going to be "pretty" it just means that it is the sound that the musicians produced (by themselves without the intervention of any engineer, producer…) That should justify the fact that this particular sample is never going to sound like the "rock" we all have in mind.

 

I also have to say that the musicians actually did a great job. They are not recording artists. They do live gigs. They are used to having an engineer construct their sound at the mixing table. When I told them we were going to record this way (that means that they were going to be completely exposed without the help of any touch up) they had the courage to do it and I am really grateful for that.

[francisleung]

I have now A/B compared 5 tracks with 2.0 calibration to their predecessors. I would say the 2.0 process is a total success bringing improvements in varying degrees of improvement to the 5 that I have compared. I have described three in previous posts, namely, the soprano, the tenor and Iberia piano tracks. Now the remaining two.

*The drum solo, track 3. The overall sound of the 2.0 has a little more gain and is more transparent. The kick drum has more impact and the drum head sound is clearer now. The higher gain and transparency of the snare and cymbals make them sound more balanced with the kick drum (previously they were subdued and duller in comparison). I am even able to hear the mechanical noise of the high hat and occasional ringing of the cymbals. A revelation! Those who have ribbon and diamond tweeters are likely to get what I have described. This track has usurped the Sheffield drum track that has reigned for a long time in my playlist. The Sheffield one was apparently recorded with multi microphones with cymbals sounding too widely distanced. The 2.0 recording with two microphones has the drum set pieces grouped together like a real one. The only problem is that it was recorded from the back of the drummer and the cymbals still sound more subdued than if they were placed in front nearer to the microphones (and to the listener when reproduced in an audio system).

* the flamenco track 2. I have archived the previous version because in my system the singer was too soft in comparison with the guitar. In this regard, the singer is positioned aback and the guitar accompaniment sounded like he was the soloist in focus.

The 2.0 calibration has brought about a little more gain and transparency and the singer seems to be standing slightly forward now. If someone asks me to play a flamenco guitar track, this is the one I would use.

[Nikhil]

Mario,

 

Thank you for the explanation.

 

What we have done is develop a new calibration on the gear side of things (the physical setup remains the same) We have run that calibration on all our previous recordings (except the Debussy Preludes because that was recorded long ago with a different physical setup)

 

Can you explain this a little more? The reason I ask is that I am struggling to find differences between the two "Cabrera Plays Debussy" versions. I have to qualify that my setup is stand mount speakers that do not go below 47Hz.

 

If anything I am finding the v1.0 version to be a tad more open.

[Mario Martinez]

I have now A/B compared 5 tracks with 2.0 calibration to their predecessors. I would say the 2.0 process is a total success bringing improvements in varying degrees of improvement to the 5 that I have compared. I have described three in previous posts, namely, the soprano, the tenor and Iberia piano tracks. Now the remaining two.

*The drum solo, track 3. The overall sound of the 2.0 has a little more gain and is more transparent. The kick drum has more impact and the drum head sound is clearer now. The higher gain and transparency of the snare and cymbals make them sound more balanced with the kick drum (previously they were subdued and duller in comparison). I am even able to hear the mechanical noise of the high hat and occasional ringing of the cymbals. A revelation! Those who have ribbon and diamond tweeters are likely to get what I have described. This track has usurped the Sheffield drum track that has reigned for a long time in my playlist. The Sheffield one was apparently recorded with multi microphones with cymbals sounding too widely distanced. The 2.0 recording with two microphones has the drum set pieces grouped together like a real one. The only problem is that it was recorded from the back of the drummer and the cymbals still sound more subdued than if they were placed in front nearer to the microphones (and to the listener when reproduced in an audio system).

* the flamenco track 2. I have archived the previous version because in my system the singer was too soft in comparison with the guitar. In this regard, the singer is positioned aback and the guitar accompaniment sounded like he was the soloist in focus.

The 2.0 calibration has brought about a little more gain and transparency and the singer seems to be standing slightly forward now. If someone asks me to play a flamenco guitar track, this is the one I would use.

 

 

Thank you Francis for your very detailed feedback.

 

I am really happy to hear about the improvements on all five pieces.

 

This is great news for us!

[Mario Martinez]

I do not understand how and what you actually do to compare the 1.1 or 2.0 versions with the LIVE SOURCE. Anyway I do not need to know because I am not making any recording. You know how to improve step by step is suffice for users like me.

 

i am not sure what is meant by the 'calibration' that you have posted about, but whatever it entails, you seem to have perfected it to an extent that is quite uncommonly found in commercially available piano recordings. Now, if you could also achieve the same results in other instrumental settings, say a string quartet or a jazz piano trio . . .

 

Can you explain this a little more? The reason I ask is that I am struggling to find differences between the two "Cabrera Plays Debussy" versions. I have to qualify that my setup is stand mount speakers that do not go below 47Hz. If anything I am finding the v1.0 version to be a tad more open.

 

See if this makes sense:

 

Say we built a full range instrument designed to PRODUCE the same color on everyone note. If you allowed that instrument to vibrate freely (without the constrains of any walls around it) you would be able to HEAR that same color on every note. (Let's name this sound "A")

 

Now imagine you take that instrument into a room. The walls on that room will constrain the way the instrument vibrates. Depending on where on that room you place the instrument the distances from the different walls will affect each note in a different way. So the color of the instrument will not be homogeneous any more. It will now PRODUCE a slightly different color on every note. (Let's name this sound "B").

 

If you want to listen to it you will have to place yourself somewhere within that room. Depending on where on that room you place yourself the distances from the different walls will deform the sound of each note in a different way. This color deformation will not be homogeneous. For each note, you will now HEAR a different color from the one the instrument produced. (Let's name this sound "C")

 

But it does not stop there, because you are not listening live, we are making a recording. So instead of your ears, we are using two microphones and some gear to record that sound. Depending on your choice of mics, mic arrangement and gear the recording chain will also deform the sound. This color deformation will not be homogeneous either. So for each note, you will RECORD a different color from the one your ears would have heard. (Let's call this sound "D")

 

So, what are we doing? Our project is about getting as close to "A" as possible. We worked the hall to minimize the differences between "A", "B" and "C". Then we developed a calibration to took care of the rest.

 

How do we know if we actually got to "A"? We are using our setup to record voice, piano, guitar and drums. These instruments are extremely different from each other. Yet, we are recording them all the same way. They could have all been recorded on the same take. The fact that the sound quality is transparent across all those instruments means we have been successful on achieving our goal of actually recording that "A" sound (call it "true" sound, "absolute" sound… you name it)

 

So if you are comparing versions, you should focus your attention on the color of the instruments. I do not know if it helps, but I like the way Guido explained it:

 

It's not only the clarity and detail, but also the balances across the frequency spectrum from bass to treble that seem more convincing than in v 1.0. When 1.0 was indeed excellent, 2.0 is simply stunning.

[wouterk]

Now having listened to the Iberia 1.0 and 2.0 I can say:

- you notice the volume increase by 2 dB

- I have attached screenshots of the first track of the Iberia analysed by JRiver

In practical terms you sense a bigger soundstage with v2.0 compared to v1.0 while retaining the level of detail and ease of listening. The performance itself is excellent too. After several switching between the two options it was easy to stay with the new v2.0 as my preferred choice. Therefore the new calibration is definitely successful .

[Mario Martinez]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28686[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]28687[/ATTACH]

Now having listened to the Iberia 1.0 and 2.0 I can say:

- you notice the volume increase by 2 dB

- I have attached screenshots of the first track of the Iberia analysed by JRiver

In practical terms you sense a bigger soundstage with v2.0 compared to v1.0 while retaining the level of detail and ease of listening. The performance itself is excellent too. After several switching between the two options it was easy to stay with the new v2.0 as my preferred choice. Therefore the new calibration is definitely successful .

 

Hi Wouter,

 

thanks so much for listening

 

Yes, that is very interesting about the soundstage. You can hear that here in the studio too. The previous version had some issues on some frequencies. It is very interesting to see that just fixing those issues affects that sense of soundstage.

[Mario Martinez]

We have had some more reports of people having problems with the downloads.

 

I have reported this issues to our hosting service to see if they could fix it.

 

As a backup plan, I have uploaded the Albeniz Album to Dropbox.

 

If anybody else is having trouble with the download please tell me and I will send you a direct link to download the Dropbox file.

 

I am really sorry for the inconvenience this is causing.

[odelay]

Thanks so much Mario!

Great to hear the new versions.

 

Sadly, I have limited equipment on hand here, but could nonetheless hear an improvement. Couldn't say much beyond that timbres seemed better. The few samples of Iberia and Debussy I played were all more enjoyable with the new calibrations (albeit playing in crappy old Sennheisers).

I will be happy to post more impressions once I get my decent headphones in a couple weeks.

[PGRPGRPG]

We have had some more reports of people having problems with the downloads.

 

I have reported this issues to our hosting service to see if they could fix it.

 

As a backup plan, I have uploaded the Albeniz Album to Dropbox.

 

If anybody else is having trouble with the download please tell me and I will send you a direct link to download the Dropbox file.

 

I am really sorry for the inconvenience this is causing.

 

 

Hi Mario,

 

Downloading for me was a total no brainer...

 

I've listened to your Albeniz recording and samples and did found them very enjoyable.

My office set up is not adjusted as per your suggestion. The sound was crystal clear, smooth.

Should I say very precise, detailed ? Yes.

Too much? not exactly, but I've felt like some life was missing. Probably due to focus and lack of distance between my B&W speakers.

 

I will try on my other setup asap to check difference with a more usual and valid configuration for a more pragmatic assessment.

 

I've a piano reference disk I've discovered 10 years ago thanks to lesmen website : Mirror Canon (Beethoven, Schoenberg, Webern, Berg. Aspaas) . Don't say it is the best...only the one that give me real emotion...Don't ask me why...intensity? presence? pehraps

https://www.amazon.fr/Mirror-Canon-Beethoven-Schoenberg-Aspaas/dp/B0017KVRZY

 

. For violins, I do specificaly enjoy the french confidential "Studio Passavant" label, doing very realistic recordings in natural environments (some are excellent, some others are in average +...).

PassavantMusic – La musique naturellement..

 

Don't know if you've already heard about these frenchies, but I would suggest you to compare as a benchmark (don't say who will be benchmarked but might worth a try). I'm sure you'll bring a very valuable offer to your demanding customers ... Keep on the good job and hard track !

 

Thanks again to provide us with this opportunity to enjoy our passion a little bit more every day. I do hope ther's a future for quality recordings despite loudness and compression war... for iphones and the likes...

 

Best regards

[Mario Martinez]

Thanks so much Mario!

Great to hear the new versions.

 

Sadly, I have limited equipment on hand here, but could nonetheless hear an improvement. Couldn't say much beyond that timbres seemed better. The few samples of Iberia and Debussy I played were all more enjoyable with the new calibrations (albeit playing in crappy old Sennheisers).

I will be happy to post more impressions once I get my decent headphones in a couple weeks.

 

Thanks Luke,

 

well, that is good news so far!

 

I cannot wait until you get the good ones

[Mario Martinez]

Hi Mario,

 

Downloading for me was a total no brainer...

 

I've listened to your Albeniz recording and samples and did found them very enjoyable.

My office set up is not adjusted as per your suggestion. The sound was crystal clear, smooth.

Should I say very precise, detailed ? Yes.

Too much? not exactly, but I've felt like some life was missing. Probably due to focus and lack of distance between my B&W speakers.

 

I will try on my other setup asap to check difference with a more usual and valid configuration for a more pragmatic assessment.

 

Thank you very much

 

We use an ORTF mic arrangement. That means the image that you see on playback is formed by volume differences and timing differences.

 

If the arrangement of the stereo playback system is very precise (the distances between the speakers and the listening point) then the ORTF offers a perfect image, but if the distances are not correct, then the timing differences will not make sense any more and that will not just affect the image but it will also affect other aspects of the sound too.

 

If you do have a chance to play them on a "regular" stereo configuration please do try. This recordings are very sensitive to the stereo arrangement of the playback system.

[Mario Martinez]

Here is how we are doing so far:

 

We have given out 54 albums. 25 for Albeniz Iberia, 23 for Cabrera plays Debussy, 3 for Chopin Polish Songs and 3 for Songs of Paolo Tosti.

 

In addition to the Gift Codes we have also received some donations; I want to tell you I am really grateful for that too.

 

Please feel free to post your impressions. Should you have any questions about the recordings, the web page, ...anything, please do ask, I will be happy to answer all your questions.

[noirx7]

Mario, I would love to have both the Albeniz Iberia and the Cabrera plays Debuts.

 

Gracias

Arturo

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[livelistenlearn]

@Mario Martinez,

 

Thank You for taking the trouble. Have listened a few times to be sure. Enjoyed it very much.

 

Comment:

 

Albéniz Iberia

Luis Grané, Piano

 

Some reference recordings try to sound overtly ‘hi-fi’. This one does not. The piano sounds superb, but the more one listens, the less one focuses on the instrument. One appreciates the insight ...into the music and the musicianship. Well done.

[Mario Martinez]

Some reference recordings try to sound overtly ‘hi-fi’. This one does not. The piano sounds superb, but the more one listens, the less one focuses on the instrument. One appreciates the insight ...into the music and the musicianship. Well done.

 

Thank you, ...what else could we hope for

 

this is from the about on the PlayClassics page:

Music is communication.

It is communication between the artist and the listener. The more obstacles there are between the artist and the listener the more the message will deform and the worse the communication will be.[/Quote]

 

All we want to do is provide that direct communication with a natural sound, so you can enjoy the artists!

[Mario Martinez]

Here is an SPL file you can use to calibrate the volume of your system to the volume of the actual performance.

 

You can download it on any of our regular formats (Master, DVD, CD, MP3)

 

While playing this file in stereo, adjust the volume of your system until your SPL meter reads 75dB at your listening point.

 

All our recordings (except for the drums and rock) are recorded with the same level, so once you calibrate your playback system you will be hearing all the recordings at real live level.

 

The drums and rock are 24dB louder than this. If you wanted to get real live levels of the drums and rock you would have to turn the volume up by 24dB. But I would not recommend trying to achieve that volume on your systems for the safety of your ears.

 

Here are the links to the files:

 

TRTv2.0.master_SPL75dB

TRTv2.0.dvd_SPL75dB

TRTv2.0.cd_SPL75dB

TRTv2.0.mp3_SPL75dB

 

Have fun

[Mario Martinez]

We are happy to announce we have a new release on our catalogue:

 

"Conversations" by Enrique Bernaldo de Quirós, piano.

 

This album contains works by Beethoven, Schubert and Liszt.

 

I hope you do find it enjoyable.

[Guidof]

Hello Mario:

 

Most of the comments in the thread, including mine, have naturally focused on the recorded sound, but I would also like to stress my appreciation for the superb piano playing by Grané and Cabrera. When all is said and done, excellent recording quality would be for naught, if the music making weren't also of the highest caliber.

 

Best regards,

 

Guido F.

[qdwieertteyrujpo]

Hello Mario:

 

Most of the comments in the thread, including mine, have naturally focused on the recorded sound, but I would also like to stress my appreciation for the superb piano playing by Grané and Cabrera. When all is said and done, excellent recording quality would be for naught, if the music making weren't also of the highest caliber.

 

Best regards,

 

Guido F.

 

I fully agree with that statement. Also the new album "Conversations" is superbly played; a joy to listen to!

Dieter

[odelay]

Thanks Mario for the fabulous music!

 

My limited time to enjoy the new calibration has been enough to hear that you've managed to take already excellent recordings up to a whole new level.

 

I always thought your recordings were technically excellent. With the new calibration, I engage more with the music itself.

 

The more we can get lost in the music itself, the less we fret over the technical stuff (recording process/audio gear).

 

Thanks for the music [emoji846]

[PGRPGRPG]

We are happy to announce we have a new release on our catalogue:

 

"Conversations" by Enrique Bernaldo de Quirós, piano.

 

This album contains works by Beethoven, Schubert and Liszt.

 

I hope you do find it enjoyable.

 

 

Hi Mario,

Just sent a donation for your new album "conversations" . Download is in progress and should take 30 minutes

;-)

[PGRPGRPG]

Hi Mario,

Just sent a donation for your new album "conversations" . Download is in progress and should take 30 minutes

;-)

 

 

Less than 30 minutes of download and a fantastic recording I'm enjoying right now.

Piano is in my room, even with my modest setup.

Great Job Mario and Team ! Appreciate.