"Essence of Music" CD treatment

[sandyk]

It isn't. Whatever people experienced, something else caused it.

 

RUBBISH !

Just because you can't conceive of any possible mechanism doesn't mean it isn't true !

 

Even the conversion to .flac by the Record companies for download purposes causes, has been noted by Cookie Marenco and other members as having it's reconstituted version a little degraded in comparison with the original converted file, despite the checksums of the original and reconstituted versions remaining the same..

[Hailey]

RUBBISH !

Just because you can't conceive of any possible mechanism doesn't mean it isn't true !

 

Even the conversion to .flac by the Record companies for download purposes causes, has been noted by Cookie Marenco and other members as having it's reconstituted version a little degraded in comparison with the original converted file, despite the checksums of the original and reconstituted versions remaining the same..

 

But there should be a plausible theory to account for it, don't you think?

[sandyk]

But there should be a plausible theory to account for it, don't you think?

 

Whatever the cause, it appears to involve additional low level wideband noise. Whether this is present in the saved file ,or is a result of waveform irregularities and additional processing needed for less than optimum recovered data , I am not qualified to answer .

Any plausible theory would have to come from somebody with suitable engineering qualifications.

Alfe is presently the only suitably qualified member willing to get off his arse and do further research in this area.

This has already resulted in several tutorials that he has posted in another area of this forum, as well as confirmation that using a Linear PSU with a Samsung EVO MLC SSD for internal music storage resulted in less measurable "Jitter", and an offer in this thread to discuss "write clock" for SSD and HDD storage .

 

Alex,

You want to discuss the write clock of HDD and SSD?

You are going to end up in bit positioning jitter.

[Maldur]

Whatever the cause, it appears to involve additional low level wideband noise.

 

Flac and any other lossless codec can compress and restore that "wideband" signal effectively. But with flac, sometimes realtime playback from archived/packed file can be affected, i personally experienced that in the past. If someone repack that file before listening, all things are in place. Because any sw players can play directly from file, nobody don't care about repacking manually.

That was about 15-12 years ago, after that finding i personally use only Wavpack or Apple lossless when needed.

[alfe]

Hi Alfe

Another tutorial may be of interest to some members.

Alex

 

To be called moron again?

[sandyk]

To be called moron again?

 

Hi Alfe

Sometimes it doesn't pay to say too much in some forums, no matter how much confirmation you have, or in your case how experienced you are. When you present some with further confirmation of what you have found , they sometimes don't even acknowledge receipt of the information if it doesn't confirm their own beliefs.(e.g. "gold and silver" results.)

 

Kind Regards

Alex

[alfe]

Hi Alfe

Sometimes it doesn't pay to say too much in some forums, no matter how much confirmation you have, or in your case how experienced you are. When you present some with further confirmation of what you have found , they sometimes don't even acknowledge receipt of the information if it doesn't confirm their own beliefs.(e.g. "gold and silver" results.)

 

Kind Regards

Alex

 

Trying to tickle me with gold and silver?

Never mind if you think it's better fine but keep it for you as personal secret:)

[sandyk]

Trying to tickle me with gold and silver?

Never mind if you think it's better fine but keep it for you as personal secret:)

 

The disc colour only Alfe, NOT the actual material in the reflective layer or the quality of the CD -R manufacture . The Laser would likely have an easier time tracking one version, would it not ?

 

G'night !

[Hailey]

Some of this stuff, it seems to me, borders on religion.

 

Ok I see they offer a 30-day money back guarantee. I'll spring for it, and report my findings here.

 

Maybe.

[alfe]

Some of this stuff, it seems to me, borders on religion.

 

Ok I see they offer a 30-day money back guarantee. I'll spring for it, and report my findings here.

 

Maybe.

 

My religion is simple: if I can hear it, I can measure it.

[mansr]

My religion is simple: if I can hear it, I can measure it.

 

Exceptions to that (nerve implants and MRI aside) are hallucinations and tinnitus.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Exceptions to that (nerve implants and MRI aside) are hallucinations and tinnitus.

 

Too good :~)

[The Computer Audiophile]

Has anyone heard of this?

 

Essence of Music CD Treatment Review - Dagogo | A Unique Audiophile Experience

 

The idea that any kind of cleaning fluid or solvent could somehow enhance the sq of a CD is just...well, it makes no sense: Either you're ripping a bit perfect copy of the data file on the CD...or you're not, right?

 

I have come to accept the logic of USB cables and their effect on jitter, etc. But that gets into the challenges of real-time data processing.

 

This is just...copying a file.

 

Has anyone had any experience to the contrary?

 

My bottom line is this: If ripping the disc with and without the magic potion results in the same checksum, the magic potion does nothing.

 

Call me a rube, but I don't buy into the whole thing about two identical (checksum) files sounding different.

[alfe]

My bottom line is this: If ripping the disc with and without the magic potion results in the same checksum, the magic potion does nothing.

 

Call me a rube, but I don't buy into the whole thing about two identical (checksum) files sounding different.

 

Except if Packets jitter are involved:)

[ron spencer]

Some people here really need to spend some time over on Hydrogenaudio...sprays...LOL...Flac vs WAV...LOL...no science behind them...just enjoy what you have. Or buy a turntable and enjoy some warmth with the odd pop or click. I wonder if there is a "Essence of Vinyl" spray one could use on an LP? or an "Essence of Reel to Reel" for the tape crowd?

[Don Hills]

... I wonder if there is a "Essence of Vinyl" spray one could use on an LP? or an "Essence of Reel to Reel" for the tape crowd?

 

Why would you want a spray to make your music like it's coming from vinyl, when it *is* coming from vinyl?

[Hailey]

Why would you want a spray to make your music like it's coming from vinyl, when it *is* coming from vinyl?

 

No, the purpose of that spray is to make your vinyl sound digital.

[ron spencer]

Why would you want a spray to make your music like it's coming from vinyl, when it *is* coming from vinyl?

 

So as far as this spray is concerned you would say:

 

"Why would you want a spray to make your music like it's coming from CD, when it *is* coming from CD?"

[Don Hills]

Ah, I stand corrected. I had forgotten the specifics of the OP.

[Hailey]

So I couldn't resist: They have a 30-day money back guarantee so they're standing by their product so I figured "why not."

 

So this afternoon I ripped three CDs, then did the Essence of Music baptism according to the instructions, then ripped them again.

 

Ok a couple of quick observations:

 

1) I've never seen such clean CDs in my life post-essencing. Stuff that wouldn't really come off my old way of cleaning--a breath fogging and a t-short wipe-just vanished under the EOM onslaught. The CDs appeared a bit more iridescent as well. Very cool.

 

2) Somebody please explain this to me: The ripped post-EOM'd ripped files were, of course, check sum identical to the pre-EOM ripped files because "bits are bits," right? BUT...

 

The file sizes were different. Not by much. Generally the EOM'd files were 20 to 30 bytes larger than the baseline files--although in one case they were smaller--so this hardly qualifies as a rounding error. Nevertheless, it's there and since "bits are bits" why a file size discrepancy of any degree given the fact that these files are "check sum identical"?

 

And, in case your wondering, I tested this for consistency. After I noticed it on the first CD, I ripped the second CD twice, first untreated (obviously), then treated, just to make sure this didn't reflect some funky variance in my CD drive. Nope. The numbers were the same in both rips and the variance was still there. Then, just to be doubly sure, I repeated the process on a third CD in a second drive on another computer.

 

Same thing.

 

Is there some easy-peasy explanation for this? Something that anyone who knows anything about data storage can readily answer? Cuz it really surprised me.

 

So did it effect SQ?

 

Yeah, I think it did. But it was late by the time I got around to listening, and I was tired and cranky. I don't trust my ears on this at all. I don't see how goo-in-bottle can have any effect but...but...but...I seem to have detected a quantitative effect, as infinitesimal as it may be, when there should be (to the best of my knowledge) no such effect at all. So this product makes no sense, and I'm having a hard time evaluating it objectively.

 

So I've sent a couple of files to an audiophile friend who's opinion I value. I haven't said what it's about, shared with him no background. I just said, "do these files sound the same to you?"

 

Looking forward to his response.

[sandyk]

Hailey

Do the files ripped by both methods definitely still have identical .md5 checksums ?

Anything that affects readability of the disc can make a small difference in how the file sounds.

How did you send the files? Did you upload them?

 

Alex

[kumakuma]

Did you use AccurateRip and, if so, do both rips match what's in the AccurateRip database?

[Hailey]

Hailey

Do the files ripped by both methods definitely still have identical .md5 checksums ?

Anything that affects readability of the disc can make a small difference in how the file sounds.

How did you send the files? Did you upload them?

 

Alex

 

Well they both checked out identically in AccurateRip. Is that the same thing?

 

I encoded the files as AIFF and uploaded to Dropbox.

[Hailey]

Did you use AccurateRip and, if so, do both rips match what's in the AccurateRip database?

 

Yes.

[Hailey]

Ok I heard back from my friend. He heard a slight difference and between the two files--one labeled "this" and the other labeled "or this"--he chose the EOM-treated file as being slightly more dynamic, this without knowing anything about the source of these files or what, if anything, had been done to them.

 

So that's something, I guess. It could be a coincidence--a data sample of one is hardly conclusive--but it deepens the mystery a bit, at least from where I sit.