DAC with XLR output + volume control

[Sam Lord]

*After* you solve the noise issue, you will have many more choices if you control volume with software. HQPlayer sounds fantastic, whether sending DSD or PCM out, and it has great volume control. HQP (and Roon) should simply be mandatory for music lovers, IMO. That said, I'm impressed by Emotiva's offerings though I haven't heard them: they say all the right things about sound and circuitry.

 

EDIT: I haven't found a noise problem I couldn't solve; of course I had training. But with help from various forums like this one or DIYAudio, you'll fix it. You'll need to describe your system in complete detail up front, listing every connection. But really, you *need* to deal with this before you spend a lot on a new component(s).

[Cornan]

*After* you solve the noise issue, you will have many more choices if you control volume with software. HQPlayer sounds fantastic, whether sending DSD or PCM out, and it has great volume control. HQP (and Roon) should simply be mandatory for music lovers, IMO. That said, I'm impressed by Emotiva's offerings though I haven't heard them: they say all the right things about sound and circuitry.

 

EDIT: I haven't found a noise problem I couldn't solve; of course I had training. But with help from various forums like this one or DIYAudio, you'll fix it. You'll need to describe your system in complete detail up front, listing every connection. But really, you *need* to deal with this before you spend a lot on a new component(s).

 

+1 True that! I have personally learned a hard lesson with a ground loop a couple of years ago which made me change all my interconnects plus finally my Windows 10 computer to an Auralic Aries without actually curing the problem (but improved the sound). I finally realized that my Fostex TH900 had a faulty (previously badly repaired) cable. With too many devices & (especially) cables in the chain noise issues could be a hassle to solve without help from others.

[ctsooner]

+1 True that! I have personally learned a hard lesson with a ground loop a couple of years ago which made me change all my interconnects plus finally my Windows 10 computer to an Auralic Aries without actually curing the problem (but improved the sound). I finally realized that my Fostex TH900 had a faulty (previously badly repaired) cable. With too many devices & (especially) cables in the chain noise issues could be a hassle to solve without help from others.

 

I think any one would agree that you need to find the noise issue first. Then you can get what sounds best. It costs a lot of money to implement a true balanced circuit to get the benefits. You need to double up on everything in the output section. Very few components under 1k USD can afford to do this. There are a few, but it limits your choices by 90% I bet.

 

IRT HQplayer, I personally have heard it in a few high end systems, including my own and have not been impressed with it. It's a flavor of the day and in most of our systems it hasn't lived up to it's billing. There are threads on this site discussion HQplayer and it's not 100% that it works great. It changes the sound, but maybe not always for the better. Upsampling isn't always a good thing either. Some swear by it, but when you listen on a resolving system, it's not always the best answer. Going to listen for yourself is the best and only way to figure that out.

 

As for Roon, it really is a blast to play with. I finally got to play with it two weeks ago when auditioning the new Ayre QX5 Twenty DAC/Headphone amp on Vandersteen 7's and the Ayre reference amp stack. Highly resolving, even though the Ayre needed about 400 more hours to break in fully. Roon took us, music wise, to placed we didn't think we'd go. A lot of fun to play with for sure, but it also will cost you as much as your DAC to purchase, plus then you need a Roon end point DAC as well as some place to use Roon core on your NAS or drive.

 

Personally, I'd just stay within budget and stretch to get he best component and not worry as much about the software at this time. That's just me.

 

*go find out why you have noise in your system and get it fixed before doing anything else*

[JFraser]

Thanks to everyone who has responded re the noise issue. I agree with you - it makes sense for me to get this sorted first. I did actually start a thread on here a while ago to sort the issue - and whilst I thought I had sorted it out in the end (buy buying RCA to XLR cables!) - it didn't take me very long to realise that I had only reduced the noise and not eliminated it all together! It's still uncomfortably loud.

 

If you want to, you can view the thread here.

 

I've tried so many things, but obviously not enough. There must be a solution, I just haven't found it.

 

I might need to see if I can get an electricians help as it may be a problem further down the electrical chain. I live in an apartment block...

 

p.s. Roon looks really interesting.

[JFraser]

"I feel like I have to use balanced because I have a pretty major issue with noise in my system currently, hence wanting to use optical and xlr."

 

You can do those upgrades and sill have a noise issue. You need to find the problem first. Can you tell me exactly the type of IC's you use to connect your speakers?

 

This is explained (but only partially) in the 'Noise' thread I posted above. So I'll explain in more detail here:

 

PC > USB cable to DAC > unbalanced RCA passive volume control > [RCA to XLR] cables from the volume control to the subwoofer (KRK 10s) > XLR to both satellite speakers (KRK VXT6) from the subwoofer.

[Cornan]

This is explained (but only partially) in the 'Noise' thread I posted above. So I'll explain in more detail here:

 

PC > USB cable to DAC > unbalanced RCA passive volume control > [RCA to XLR] cables from the volume control to the subwoofer (KRK 10s) > XLR to both satellite speakers (KRK VXT6) from the subwoofer.

 

As I understand by the thread it is not a ground loop sound you´ve got....but a crackling and ticking noise that you hear when you use your computer. You still have the very same noise now as it was before. Have I understood it correct?

 

In general I would blame the plugs, interconnects, cables or pc for these noises.

I would start by removing all other cables from the computer....leaving just the ones that you´ll need for sound (ie. USB and power). Clean the plugs on all your connected cables by inserting and removing them several times (5-6 times). I would also start by unistalling (+restart pc) and installing the sound drivers in your pc. You could also try the free (no charge) fidelizer http://www.fildelizer-audio.com to limit the work load of the PC. Make sure to use your software player with no upsampling or additional features (bare). If no change use another software player to see if the noises goes away. Make sure that all the power leads in your equipment are connected to the same power wall outlet (direct or via a power strip)...but I think you have already got this advice on the previous thread!

Well, there is something to start checking out. Good luck!

 

BTW. It is also useful to know which software player and sound driver you are using to get the whole picture.

 

Ps. One more thing. If you can use headphones be sure to check if you´ve got the same noises there as well. This could possibly limit the cause. Ds.

[JFraser]

As I understand by the thread it is not a ground loop sound you´ve got....but a crackling and ticking noise that you hear when you use your computer. You still have the very same noise now as it was before. Have I understood it correct?

 

In general I would blame the plugs, interconnects, cables or pc for these noises.

I would start by removing all other cables from the computer....leaving just the ones that you´ll need for sound (ie. USB and power). Clean the plugs on all your connected cables by inserting and removing them several times (5-6 times). I would also start by unistalling (+restart pc) and installing the sound drivers in your pc. You could also try the free (no charge) fidelizer http://www.fildelizer-audio.com to limit the work load of the PC. Make sure to use your software player with no upsampling or additional features (bare). If no change use another software player to see if the noises goes away. Make sure that all the power leads in your equipment are connected to the same power wall outlet (direct or via a power strip)...but I think you have already got this advice on the previous thread!

Well, there is something to start checking out. Good luck!

 

BTW. It is also useful to know which software player and sound driver you are using to get the whole picture.

 

Ps. One more thing. If you can use headphones be sure to check if you´ve got the same noises there as well. This could possibly limit the cause. Ds.

 

When I disconnect the PC and connect another source such as my phone for example, to the speakers, I don't have any noise. Does this mean it's all down to my PC?

[Cornan]

When I disconnect the PC and connect another source such as my phone for example, to the speakers, I don't have any noise. Does this mean it's all down to my PC?

If you connected your phone with the same USB cable you have narrowed it down to a pc issue (incl software installed). If you connected it with another cable it could still be the USB cable as well. How did you connect your phone?

 

Most likely a sound driver issue IMO judging by the sound of your noises. However dirty cable plugs and/or inlet connectors can also create these type of noises.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[JFraser]

If you connected your phone with the same USB cable you have narrowed it down to a pc issue (incl software installed). If you connected it with another cable it could still be the USB cable as well. How did you connect your phone?

 

Most likely a sound driver issue IMO judging by the sound of your noises. However dirty cable plugs and/or inlet connectors can also create these type of noises.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

I just connected the phone with a 3.5mm jack to 2xRCA adapter, straight into the passive volume control, which connects to my speakers. (I removed the DAC completely)

 

I've tried different USB cables so it's not that.

[Cornan]

I just connected the phone with a 3.5mm jack to 2xRCA adapter, straight into the passive volume control, which connects to my speakers. (I removed the DAC completely)

 

I've tried different USB cables so it's not that.

What sound driver are you using for your DAC? Asio, Wasapi or KS?

Try to update the current driver to the latest release (see DAC manufactorers website). You could also try to install Asio Bridge http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Cable/ or Asio4All http://www.asio4all.com to see if that helps.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Cornan]

Here s a good link for trouble shooting pc sound issues that I have used in the past: http:// https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/209571729

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[JFraser]

Just did some interesting tests. I have a Pioneer DDJ-SR (I like to DJ as a hobby) that works in same way as a DAC as you connect to the PC via USB and acts as a soundcard and it has both Balanced TRS and RCA outputs.

 

So I connected that, first of all by the RCA and i was getting the same problem.

 

I then flicked the ground switch on the subwoofer from lift back to ground and the problem was even worse, which proves the lift switch must be doing something at least! So I switched it back to lift.

 

I then disconnected the RCAs and connected the TRS cables instead and that made a big difference. I still have a slight noise there, but not really that audible and you have to put your ear quite close to the speakers to hear it, maybe that's just a normal level of noise I don't know - considering these speakers are active so I have the volume/gain switch on the back of them set to 0 (maximum), which is not what you'd normally have by default in a set up with seperates amp, pre amp, etc. end set up.

 

Does anyone here get ANY noise at all? Or is a little noise normal?

 

Doing this test has (I think) told me that getting a DAC with balanced out is a good idea.

[17629v2]

This is explained (but only partially) in the 'Noise' thread I posted above. So I'll explain in more detail here:

 

PC > USB cable to DAC > unbalanced RCA passive volume control > [RCA to XLR] cables from the volume control to the subwoofer (KRK 10s) > XLR to both satellite speakers (KRK VXT6) from the subwoofer.

 

Make sure your rca to xlr adapters connect pins 1 and 3.

[Cornan]

Just did some interesting tests. I have a Pioneer DDJ-SR (I like to DJ as a hobby) that works in same way as a DAC as you connect to the PC via USB and acts as a soundcard and it has both Balanced TRS and RCA outputs.

 

So I connected that, first of all by the RCA and i was getting the same problem.

 

I then flicked the ground switch on the subwoofer from lift back to ground and the problem was even worse, which proves the lift switch must be doing something at least! So I switched it back to lift.

 

I then disconnected the RCAs and connected the TRS cables instead and that made a big difference. I still have a slight noise there, but not really that audible and you have to put your ear quite close to the speakers to hear it, maybe that's just a normal level of noise I don't know - considering these speakers are active so I have the volume/gain switch on the back of them set to 0 (maximum), which is not what you'd normally have by default in a set up with seperates amp, pre amp, etc. end set up.

 

Does anyone here get ANY noise at all? Or is a little noise normal?

 

Doing this test has (I think) told me that getting a DAC with balanced out is a good idea.

 

Since your problems went away completely using a mobile phone and 3,5mm to RCA cable and now your noises are reduced by balanced connections I would assume that it could be electrical interfearence or RFI/EMI (since you said in your problem thread that it is NOT a ground loop). Make sure to separate power cables and analogue/digital cables as much as possible. Make sure that no mobile phone or routers is too close to analogue cables. Other possible causes IMO could be badly shielded cables, badly shielded devices, XLR to RCA adapters, defect power cables, bluetooth, bad plugs etc.

 

Make sure to let "sensitive devices" (DAC/Preamp/Volume control/streamers etc) have some space between them and other power hungry devices (Amps/power filters etc) and run cable without touching such devices.

 

It is common that you will hear a low "humming" sound from some active speakers...but this sound will be present without a signal as well. If the noise is present only with a signal...it should'nt be there.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[kelly200269]

The Emotiva is really great unit. Also look at the TEAC UD-301.

 

You lose the remove that the Emotiva has but gain the DSD decoding the Emotiva doesn't.

 

UD-301 | TEAC

+1 for the TEAC

 

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

[17629v2]

"I then disconnected the RCAs and connected the TRS cables instead and that made a big difference. I still have a slight noise there, but not really that audible and you have to put your ear quite close to the speakers to hear it, maybe that's just a normal level of noise I don't know - considering these speakers are active so I have the volume/gain switch on the back of them set to 0 (maximum), which is not what you'd normally have by default in a set up with seperates amp, pre amp, etc. end set up.

 

Does anyone here get ANY noise at all? Or is a little noise normal?

 

Doing this test has (I think) told me that getting a DAC with balanced out is a good idea."

 

The noise went away with the Pioneer because everything was balanced (Pioneer, cables and balanced input on your speakers). The reason you had the noise with the Arcam dac, is because you ran a single ended signal (dac) into a balanced component (speakers). The conductors don't carry information the same way. If you get the adapter I mentioned in my last post, the noise should go away using the Arcam. The adapter shorts pins 1 and 3 internally. Doing so lets your balanced speaker inputs accept a single ended signal.

 

As far as the small hiss goes, you probably have the gain on the back of your speakers set too high. Lower the gain controls on the back of the speakers. and it will probably go away. You'll have to experiment to see how much you should back off.

[JFraser]

"I then disconnected the RCAs and connected the TRS cables instead and that made a big difference. I still have a slight noise there, but not really that audible and you have to put your ear quite close to the speakers to hear it, maybe that's just a normal level of noise I don't know - considering these speakers are active so I have the volume/gain switch on the back of them set to 0 (maximum), which is not what you'd normally have by default in a set up with seperates amp, pre amp, etc. end set up.

 

Does anyone here get ANY noise at all? Or is a little noise normal?

 

Doing this test has (I think) told me that getting a DAC with balanced out is a good idea."

 

The noise went away with the Pioneer because everything was balanced (Pioneer, cables and balanced input on your speakers). The reason you had the noise with the Arcam dac, is because you ran a single ended signal (dac) into a balanced component (speakers). The conductors don't carry information the same way. If you get the adapter I mentioned in my last post, the noise should go away using the Arcam. The adapter shorts pins 1 and 3 internally. Doing so lets your balanced speaker inputs accept a single ended signal.

 

As far as the small hiss goes, you probably have the gain on the back of your speakers set too high. Lower the gain controls on the back of the speakers. and it will probably go away. You'll have to experiment to see how much you should back off.

 

Sorry what Pioneer? and what adapter are you talking about exactly - can you please send a link?

I agree with the small hiss - I think that's unavoidable on some active speakers when gain is set high or to 0.

Thanks.

[17629v2]

Sorry what Pioneer? and what adapter are you talking about exactly - can you please send a link?

I agree with the small hiss - I think that's unavoidable on some active speakers when gain is set high or to 0.

Thanks.

 

This Pioneer

 

"Just did some interesting tests. I have a Pioneer DDJ-SR (I like to DJ as a hobby) that works in same way as a DAC as you connect to the PC via USB and acts as a soundcard and it has both Balanced TRS and RCA outputs."

 

When you used the DDJ-SR going into the speakers balanced inputs, both pieces were operating in balanced mode. The circuitry for balanced equipment is different. You need both pieces to be running balanced or SE, but not one of each. Just think of it as the pins on the connector do different things. Its like shorting them out. That's why you get the noise. The fix is to get the balanced component operating in SE mode. On your system you do that by shorting pins 1 and 3 on the balanced input. The adapter is just an rca jack on one side and an xlr on the other. They're very common and you should be able to buy them at any music store or Radio Shack. Just be sure to look at your gear before you buy them. I'm pretty sure you'll need a female rca connector on one side of the adapter, and a male xlr on the other end.

 

This is a very common problem with powered monitors like this.

[JFraser]

This Pioneer

 

"Just did some interesting tests. I have a Pioneer DDJ-SR (I like to DJ as a hobby) that works in same way as a DAC as you connect to the PC via USB and acts as a soundcard and it has both Balanced TRS and RCA outputs."

 

When you used the DDJ-SR going into the speakers balanced inputs, both pieces were operating in balanced mode. The circuitry for balanced equipment is different. You need both pieces to be running balanced or SE, but not one of each. Just think of it as the pins on the connector do different things. Its like shorting them out. That's why you get the noise. The fix is to get the balanced component operating in SE mode. On your system you do that by shorting pins 1 and 3 on the balanced input. The adapter is just an rca jack on one side and an xlr on the other. They're very common and you should be able to buy them at any music store or Radio Shack. Just be sure to look at your gear before you buy them. I'm pretty sure you'll need a female rca connector on one side of the adapter, and a male xlr on the other end.

 

This is a very common problem with powered monitors like this.

 

That's really helpful, thanks. Turns out a friend wants my rPAC so I'm going to sell it and get a new DAC anyway, and may as well go for balanced. At the moment I have a shortlist of the following:

 

TEAC UD-301

NAD D 1050

Emotiva DC-1

Matrix Mini-I Pro

 

Any thoughts anyone/recommendations on any of these?

[17629v2]

That's really helpful, thanks. Turns out a friend wants my rPAC so I'm going to sell it and get a new DAC anyway, and may as well go for balanced. At the moment I have a shortlist of the following:

 

TEAC UD-301

NAD D 1050

Emotiva DC-1

Matrix Mini-I Pro

 

Any thoughts anyone/recommendations on any of these?

 

Unfortunately, I can't comment on the dac's you list because I haven't heard any of them. If I had to pick one without a demo, the NAD is probably the safest choice. That doesn't mean that the others can't be as good, if not better.

[Cornan]

Here is another XLR DAC contender in the $400 range Cambridge Audio Dacmagic Plus USB DAC Headphone Amp Digital Preamp in Silver | eBay

I have previously (+5 years ago) used the Camebridge Dacmagic (ie. not Plus) and found it to be the best value DAC for money (at the time). Should be quite easy to find second hand for around $175-200.

[JFraser]

Unfortunately, I can't comment on the dac's you list because I haven't heard any of them. If I had to pick one without a demo, the NAD is probably the safest choice. That doesn't mean that the others can't be as good, if not better.

 

Just discovered that the volume knob on the NAD only controls the headphone amp. It doesn't act as a pre-amp to the outputs on the back, so that's out of the question now.

 

This is another one I've found, which people say great things about - Yulong D200, YULONG Audio D200 DSD 384KHZ DAC

 

Heard of it/know anything about it?

[hellblau]

+1 for the Matrix Audio Mini-I Pro.

Amazing unit for the price, easily found on the internet.

It comes with rock solid drivers - never underestimate their importance when choosing a USB DAC - probably because the XMOS chip owns a well written standard driver.

[JFraser]

+1 for the Matrix Audio Mini-I Pro.

Amazing unit for the price, easily found on the internet.

It comes with rock solid drivers - never underestimate their importance when choosing a USB DAC - probably because the XMOS chip owns a well written standard driver.

 

Do you own the Mini-I Pro? Finding it really hard to come by in the UK - I don't think there is an authorised dealer here, which is surprising. Have you looked at the new model, the Mini-I Pro 2? If so, what do you think the main differences are?

[bogi]

Gustard DAC-X12 could be also considered https://www.amazon.com/GUSTARD-DAC-X12-ES9018-384KHz-Decoder/dp/B00RCUC94Q

It is discussed here http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/gustard-x-12-a-23024/