$500 Amp Recommendations, KEF LS50

[firedog]

Endearing as your faith is to single out Blue Jean Cables, they're not stocked in New Zealand. Stateside readers may choose to test your beliefs.

 

They're only "stocked" at the factory. Order over the web (US and UK web sites) and they Fedex to your address, usually the same day. Prices (including shipping) very reasonable; they calculate customs into the price so it is no hassle and no delay.

 

I don't live in the States and have ordered from them several times. Great customer service - I informed them once that they made a mistake with a 1 meter set of interconnects I ordered and they sent 0.5 meter. They immediately sent me replacements at no charge.

[realhifi]

Happy to recommend the Job INT - no interconnects needed.

JOB Products

 

Don't get fooled by the low rent website.

It's a serious integrated amp + DAC package.

 

Have you heard this? I need to find one and listen to it.

[beerandmusic]

I did extensive research for this exact issue and I settled on the NAD C326BEE. It's got the power i need for my speakers (and enough to run the KEF LS50 too), and it has a built in pre-amp but you can go around it in case you want to upgrade, which I ended up doing (to a Little Dot MkII Tube Preamp). The price is right around $500 and i've been very happy with it. There is no phono section, but since I don't have a turntable, that isn't a problem. The only upgrade i did to the interconnects (before getting the tube pre-amp) was a pair of AudioQuest RCA PreAmp Jumpers, whose impact was debatable, but it made me feel like a real audiophile

 

The C356BEE can be found used in that price range($500) and has an option to add a plugin dac or phono module...and I have seen those modules sell on ebay for under $50...a steal for the amp and the modules.

[aleisend]

The C375BEE can be found used in that price range and has an option to add a plugin dac and/or phono module...and I have seen those modules sell on ebay for under $50...a steal for the amp($500) and the modules.

 

I just put my dac (Musical Fidelity V90) in line from the source (Macbook Pro) to the amp. Would that get the same results?

[beerandmusic]

I just put my dac (Musical Fidelity V90) in line from the source (Macbook Pro) to the amp. Would that get the same results?

 

probably better...haven't compared the two...i just edit my last response and it was the C356BEE that is in the $500 range..the C375BEE is a tad higher.

[徐中銳]

I don't live in the States and have ordered from them several times.

 

Any special reason that prompted you to begin ordering from Blue Jeans Cables ?

Me, I don't own any AudioQuest nor Kimber Kable products. But because my trusted friend uses the former, another good friend is good friends with Ray Kimber, I've kept those two brand in mind to audition when I next...

 

Since OP, fritzg is interested in DragonFly, recalling how LS50 are in their Sound Room with... :

[Nikhil]

Have you heard this? I need to find one and listen to it.

 

 

I have a Job INT since April. Hands down one of the best amps I've had.

It has replaced some well regarded amps not only in my setup but many others as well.

[realhifi]

I have a Job INT since April. Hands down one of the best amps I've had.

It has replaced some well regarded amps not only in my setup but many others as well.

 

Sounds like one hell of a bargain especially if the digital input and dac are utilized.

It's on my list. At the top of it actually.

[徐中銳]

Job INT

 

Here, read more into link I found when researching Nikhil's recommendation, 5-pages 6moons review ; couple of internal photos as visual-primer :

And no, after considerations, a Job INT doesn't solve my needs, but I don't mind that it may satisfy yours Happy (audiophile) adventuring !

[firedog]

Any special reason that prompted you to begin ordering from Blue Jeans Cables ?

Me' date=' I don't own any [i']AudioQuest[/i] nor Kimber Kable products. But because my trusted friend uses the former, another good friend is good friends with Ray Kimber, I've kept those two brand in mind to audition when I next...

 

Since OP, fritzg is interested in DragonFly, recalling how LS50 are in their Sound Room with... :

 

Why did I order from them? I was looking for well made cables that I would be sure would meet spec (they test/measure every cable before shipping). Many cables don't - even expensive ones. T

They also custom make every one to length and color requested.

They also don't charge an arm and a leg.

[Sam Lord]

I am not looking for an integrated amp. And am looking to spend approx $1K to $1.5K total on a DAC plus amp. Looking for suggestions on a budget/midrange amp.

 

All Complete and Custom Amplifiers

Interesting. Haven't heard of this company. Thanks. Why I started the thread.

 

I haven't bought or heard the "Class D Audio" amps, so this is purely an armchair comment. But when CDA started up several years back, they weren't selling class D amps...in *spite* of the name. They were bog-standard unexceptional class AB (or maybe H) designs that tried to catch the wave of Hypex and Icepower success. To this day there is no documentation of the circuitry or performance of these amps except for measurements by DIYers who found nothing special. A number of buyers *did* like their sound, so the company gets kudos for that. But there still is no evidence of Class D in "Class D, " and that rings alarm bells for me. Good builders explain why their products are better. So beware: if you want Class D performance, be sure you are buying it!

 

I did extensive research for this exact issue and I settled on the NAD C326BEE. It's got the power i need for my speakers (and enough to run the KEF LS50 too), and it has a built in pre-amp but you can go around it in case you want to upgrade, which I ended up doing (to a Little Dot MkII Tube Preamp)...

 

I had one and I really liked the sound, but it was unreliable, a problem that has plagued several British builders (just to pile on) including Cambridge Audio. I really like the designs and SQ from both of these companies, but sadly I can't trust the build quality. Geez, sorry, I sound like like a bitter swine! ("Get off my Lawn!")

 

Anyway to the OP, you haven't listed your current system. *Always* do that when asking for component advice. Anyway, I agree with Wilhelm and others that your proposal isn't the best for sonics. Decent amplifiers can be had for $500, but they won't come close to matching the sonics of newer, inexpensive DAC designs. Those are changing quickly too, so you should aim for a shorter lifespan for your DAC as they improve so quickly. IOW, spend 2-3x as much on the *amp* compared to the DAC.

 

And amplifiers have undergone a revolution, you'd be crazy to pass it up. The Hypex Class D designs, especially nCore, enable you to get world-class, never-sell amplifiers for under $2kUS. Look at these Nord amps, and read documentation here, at the Hypex website, and the Merrill Taranis,very similar to the Nord unit, review at 6Moons Audio:

 

$2500USD:

Merrill Audio Taranis review

 

~$1700USD

Nord Hypex nCore500 dual mono amp

 

~$1100USD

Nord Hypex UcD400 stereo amp

 

Good luck!

[firedog]

I haven't bought or heard the "Class D Audio" amps, so this is purely an armchair comment. But when CDA started up several years back, they weren't selling class D amps...in *spite* of the name. They were bog-standard unexceptional class AB (or maybe H) designs that tried to catch the wave of Hypex and Icepower success. To this day there is no documentation of the circuitry or performance of these amps except for measurements by DIYers who found nothing special. A number of buyers *did* like their sound, so the company gets kudos for that. But there still is no evidence of Class D in "Class D, " and that rings alarm bells for me. Good builders explain why their products are better. So beware: if you want Class D performance, be sure you are buying it!

 

 

Lots of baseless speculation. You're wrong about the CDA. Just because someone on a forum speculated that they weren't class D doesn't make it so. Apparently those people aren't very knowledgeable and confused this company with another one with a similar name - and the other company makes different amps.

 

The older ClassDAudio amps you are referring to are based on either TI or IR chips

The amplifier discussed in this forum used the Texas Instruments TAS5630 Class D audio chip. Our other amplifiers use the International Rectifier IRS2092 Class D driver chips

 

It depends on the model, most are IR. The overall design is by the company owner, Tom.

 

Lots of pictures of the boards available. Lots of owners who've actually seen the amps.

 

I'm no expert, but it doesn't take a lot of knowledge to look at the board and see it is class D.

 

Ever looked at the NuPrime site - they tell you very little about their design. Same for the DigitalAmplifierCompany (DAC) - both of whom make proprietary class D amps.

[Niktech]

The Crown XLS Drive Core was mentioned several times in the "$3000 all in exercise". I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned here. In any case I'm happy with mine

[Pat Case]

Looking to move form my integrated amp to a modular system. Looking at a variety of DACs, including the Dragonflys and the Schlit Bifrost.

 

What Amp(s) would you recommend?

 

The first audiophile amp that I ever heard was the NAD 3020. That amp and TGE Sony speakers that it was connected to turned me on to good sound. Two years ago, I was working to build a system in my office at the university. In the end, I bought the new NAD D3020 and I have never looked back. It's size does not in the least define its power and its finesse has grabbed me on many occasions. At first, the D3030's controls seem a little weird but you get used to them, pretty quickly. I also like the fact that there are multiple ways of hooking it up to sources. Oh, it's got a built in DAC.

 

Above all, I found that, for the money ($500Cdn) this amp is a steal. It's not a throw away - I predict that people will be using it for a very long time. Check out the consumer reviews on Amazon.com.

[Sam Lord]

Lots of baseless speculation. You're wrong about the CDA. Just because someone on a forum speculated that they weren't class D doesn't make it so. Apparently those people aren't very knowledgeable and confused this company with another one with a similar name - and the other company makes different amps.

 

The older ClassDAudio amps you are referring to are based on either TI or IR chips

 

It depends on the model, most are IR. The overall design is by the company owner, Tom.

 

Lots of pictures of the boards available. Lots of owners who've actually seen the amps.

 

I'm no expert, but it doesn't take a lot of knowledge to look at the board and see it is class D.

 

Ever looked at the NuPrime site - they tell you very little about their design. Same for the DigitalAmplifierCompany (DAC) - both of whom make proprietary class D amps.

 

Thank you Firedog. Sorry, you're right, it is a new and different company. Yes the modules sure looked like class D with the small inductors and 90% efficiency. I expected more SMPS supplies but the core's the thing. The problem is that the use of the *name* of Class D audio (audio with a small "a") has a checkered history, from classdltd.com. That British company tried and failed to produce Class D amps, yet decided to keep the name to ride the wave success from Icepower, TI, and Hypex designs.

 

I think I actually brought this up, and was corrected on the *exact* same subject here a few years ago. I don't know why I keep at it, with all my mistakes. Once again I must apologize to the CDA founder, Tom Ross. I might even buy some of his kits if I ever get cases to finish my Hypex amps. (But hey, I got a custom offer from Ghent Audio.)

 

Anyhow, there were *hundreds* of posts on DIYAudio that hashed out the classdltd mess a few years ago. The culprit even had the moniker "Class D Design." The original company was called "class-d.com." The complaints arose from many of the best analog designers in the industry who were understandably pissed off. The fellow was kind of nuts, trying to compete without tools in one of the toughest fields in audio:

 

An amplifier better than Hypex but at a third of the price. - diyAudio

 

Lateral Mosfet Amplifers 250W - 2000W RMS Power Amplifier modules - diyAudio

 

Free Amplifier Modules - diyAudio

 

Thanks again Firedog for the correction.

 

The first audiophile amp that I ever heard was the NAD 3020. That amp and TGE Sony speakers that it was connected to turned me on to good sound. Two years ago, I was working to build a system in my office at the university. In the end, I bought the new NAD D3020 and I have never looked back...

 

A class D amp designed in conjunction with Hypex. I'm thinking of getting one for the small bedroom system and running my AppleTV through it. I haven't had radio, let alone Tidal or Spotify, in the bedroom for years...

[徐中銳]

I've read what been said since I last wrote, considered all that were said...

Well, part of what I said to Sal :

And every Thread goes-beyond the OP' date=' don't you comprehend what [u']public[/u] is, or good-of-the-community ?

 

Of what Sam especially stated :

Anyway to the OP, you haven't listed your current system. *Always* do that when asking for component advice.

Let's say we who Post are akin to folksingers, often performing our signature songs and covers too. Playlist adapts to the situation/audience.

Anyhow, continuing, at the moment, on thoughts of cabling-importance with firedog, recalling another 3 vignettes from AQ for readers consideration :

 

[video=youtube;NJgGP-yqJm0]

 

 

Why did I order from [blue Jeans Cables]? I was looking for well made cables that I would be sure would meet spec (they test/measure every cable before shipping). Many cables don't - even expensive ones.

They also custom make every one to length and color requested.

They also don't charge an arm and a leg.

Fortunately, there are no cables I immediately need. I do, however, keep-in-mind discount offers on AudioQuest (but not the used-market at all, because of past bad experience/luck)

[fritzg]

Anyway to the OP, you haven't listed your current system. *Always* do that when asking for component advice. Anyway, I agree with Wilhelm and others that your proposal isn't the best for sonics. Decent amplifiers can be had for $500, but they won't come close to matching the sonics of newer, inexpensive DAC designs. Those are changing quickly too, so you should aim for a shorter lifespan for your DAC as they improve so quickly. IOW, spend 2-3x as much on the *amp* compared to the DAC.

 

And amplifiers have undergone a revolution, you'd be crazy to pass it up. The Hypex Class D designs, especially nCore, enable you to get world-class, never-sell amplifiers for under $2kUS. Look at these Nord amps, and read documentation here, at the Hypex website, and the Merrill Taranis,very similar to the Nord unit, review at 6Moons Audio:

 

$2500USD:

Merrill Audio Taranis review

 

~$1700USD

Nord Hypex nCore500 dual mono amp

 

~$1100USD

Nord Hypex UcD400 stereo amp

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks. Just the kind of response I was hoping to get. I set the $500 tag as a baseline to see what folks came up with. My current system is an integrated one (I said that). It is a PS Audio Sprout. It drives the KEFs well with music but not with other inputs like my TV and Blu-Ray. I think I need a bit more power and like the idea of separates as I imagine DACs and preamps are going to continue to change fairly rapidly. Ideally, I'd like to spend $1,000 total on an amp/DAC combo (looking at the Schlitt Bifrost multibit) but could go higher if that seems preferable and I can talk my significant other into it.

[fritzg]

Lots of baseless speculation. You're wrong about the CDA. Just because someone on a forum speculated that they weren't class D doesn't make it so. Apparently those people aren't very knowledgeable and confused this company with another one with a similar name - and the other company makes different amps.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

[fritzg]

The Crown XLS Drive Core was mentioned several times in the "$3000 all in exercise". I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned here. In any case I'm happy with mine

 

I looked for that thread and couldn't find it.

 

The fan in the Crown and other "Pro" Amps doesn't bother you?

[Niktech]

The amp barely breaks a sweat in home/consumer use. The fan hardly ever turns on, and if it does it's whisper quiet.

[Sal1950]

Thanks. Just the kind of response I was hoping to get. I set the $500 tag as a baseline to see what folks came up with. My current system is an integrated one (I said that). It is a PS Audio Sprout. It drives the KEFs well with music but not with other inputs like my TV and Blu-Ray. I think I need a bit more power and like the idea of separates as I imagine DACs and preamps are going to continue to change fairly rapidly. Ideally, I'd like to spend $1,000 total on an amp/DAC combo (looking at the Schlitt Bifrost multibit) but could go higher if that seems preferable and I can talk my significant other into it.

A more powerful amp may help but it really depends on your desires and expectations.

KEF LS50's are a low efficiency design, (84.5db as measured my John Atkinson) dynamically constrained loudspeaker. They were designed as very nearfield monitors best used for engineering the more polite types of music. Trying to push them hard for impact while watching movies, etc will most likely end in disappointment one way or the other. Your best approach might be to stick with the Sprout driving the KEF's but to release them of the low bass chores with some type of subwoofer system. There are a number of ways to accomplish this, maybe do some homework on the subject or start a new thread with a different goal. The stated budget could easily put a good subwoofer system up and running.

I'm fairly sure you don't want to end up with your LS50's driver on the floor or the crossover letting the smoke out.

 

Try googling (kef ls50 matching subwoofer) Lot's of great stuff immediately comes up.

[徐中銳]

fritzg, in real-world terms, since you've already the LS50, why not trying taking them to your friends and audition their amp and dac choices ? Because they too benefit, would like to hear how LS50 sounds for what they have ? Or, better still, they might be willing to lend you what they've got so you can judge in your own listening room.

Sal, from what you say, subwoofer out will eventually be handy if I end up liking my audition of :

 

[fritzg]

A more powerful amp may help but it really depends on your desires and expectations.

KEF LS50's are a low efficiency design, (84.5db as measured my John Atkinson) dynamically constrained loudspeaker. They were designed as very nearfield monitors best used for engineering the more polite types of music. Trying to push them hard for impact while watching movies, etc will most likely end in disappointment one way or the other. Your best approach might be to stick with the Sprout driving the KEF's but to release them of the low bass chores with some type of subwoofer system. There are a number of ways to accomplish this, maybe do some homework on the subject or start a new thread with a different goal. The stated budget could easily put a good subwoofer system up and running.

I'm fairly sure you don't want to end up with your LS50's driver on the floor or the crossover letting the smoke out.

 

Try googling (kef ls50 matching subwoofer) Lot's of great stuff immediately comes up.

 

Well, I am also interested in trying out different DACs and want a separate amp for that purpose. And I don't want too much amp for the KEFs. I don't drive them too hard and we do listen in nearfield almost 90% of the time. The problem isn't lack of bass, there really isn't a problem per se, just looking to experiment and a modest improvement.

[hornytoad]

A more powerful amp may help but it really depends on your desires and expectations.

KEF LS50's are a low efficiency design, (84.5db as measured my John Atkinson) dynamically constrained loudspeaker. They were designed as very nearfield monitors best used for engineering the more polite types of music. Trying to push them hard for impact while watching movies, etc will most likely end in disappointment one way or the other. Your best approach might be to stick with the Sprout driving the KEF's but to release them of the low bass chores with some type of subwoofer system. There are a number of ways to accomplish this, maybe do some homework on the subject or start a new thread with a different goal. The stated budget could easily put a good subwoofer system up and running.

I'm fairly sure you don't want to end up with your LS50's driver on the floor or the crossover letting the smoke out.

 

Try googling (kef ls50 matching subwoofer) Lot's of great stuff immediately comes up.

 

Yeah this is why I would tell anyone who is playing a lot of hard driving rock to look at other speakers . Even the Elac Unifi B5's play hard rock better than the Kef Ls50's .

They are great for jazz , chill , softer rock , etc .

[fritzg]

Yeah this is why I would tell anyone who is playing a lot of hard driving rock to look at other speakers . Even the Elac Unifi B5's play hard rock better than the Kef Ls50's .

They are great for jazz , chill , softer rock , etc .

 

Yeah, depends on one's definition of hard rock. :-)

 

We listen mostly to jazz, but also Springsteen, the Who, Eagles, etc., with the heaviest probably being Led Zep and Gov't Mule.