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Good Internet Radio Setup (Hardware, Software, Services)


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In terms internet radio, the two main players are Tune-in and vTuner. The latter licenses its technology, while the former also has its own app. The playback quality really depends on the station, as they decide the broadcast quality. Both list tens of thousands of stations and have the usual selection and filter methods. I slightly prefer Tune-in because i use their app and i only need one account.
Tune-in also tends to update the streams used in its lists more frequently than vTuner does. This makes them less likely to fail due to them being no longer available and more importantly, perhaps, helps keep up with technology.

 

For example, over 2 years ago the BBC upgraded their internet radio stations to use HLS AAC, which included providing high quality 320kbps AAC streams for UK only listeners. It took Tune-in over a year to eventually use these 'new' BBC streams, but at least they were made available, even to their streamer manufacturer partners. To this date vTuner still only provides the BBC's contingency 128kbps MP3 streams.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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One of the features I like Internet Radio software to have: the ability to add streams for URL's on your own, and not just work from curated lists. That way if you find a stream you like that isn't in the built in list, you can add it.
The ability to add your own internet radio stream URLs is also available to the majority of streaming devices, even those that use list providers such as vTuner & Tune-in. What is more likely to be an issue is the device actually being capable of extracting the radio stream from the URL and/or decoding the audio format. However, even this can commonly be resolved with a 'bit of DIY'.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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That would certainly be useful.

 

Which softwares allow this?

Some UPnP/DLNA media server software allows you do this for any UPnP/DLNA supporting streamer, even for those streamers that don't have their own internet radio function (ie, separate to their UPnP/DLNA network music file streaming function).

 

For example, the excellent free MinimServer UPnP media server can be used to add internet radio stream URLs as playlists. It even supports streaming from the BBC's latest HLS AAC streams, via its optional MinimStreamer transcoder module:

MinimStreamer

 

I've even configured MinimServer/MinimStreamer to allow my Pioneer N-50 network audio player (normally uses vTuner for internet radio) to access those highest quality (as far as current internet radio is concerned) 1000kbps+ Ogg FLAC radio streams I mentioned in post #16. With further (minor) DIY, the same for Chromecast Audio.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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The ability to add your own internet radio stream URLs is also available to the majority of streaming devices, even those that use list providers such as vTuner & Tune-in. What is more likely to be an issue is the device actually being capable of extracting the radio stream from the URL and/or decoding the audio format. However, even this can commonly be resolved with a 'bit of DIY'.

 

As an example, you can add custom TuneIn stations with Bluesound devices.

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The advantage with Pi + CCA combo is better SQ. Even a budget DAC from Schiit will outperform any of the integrated streamers. I have Sonos, Bose, Sony, and a few more such boomboxes that I use with iPad and iPod. They are good in that there are no wires, both amp and speaker are in a single package and you only need a smartphone or tablet to connect and play.

 

However, the SQ is nothing to write about... you can do a lot better with an external DAC, powered speakers and/or separates for the same budget or less.

 

 

Thanks for all the info.

 

You say Pi + CCA combo.. You mean you use them with each other? How? I thought you'd either use the Pi or the CCA but not both together.

 

Yea, if I go with the SBC, I've been looking at probably going with the Schiit Modi 2 Uber or Multibit + SYS preamp, unless there's a better budget DAC around, which at this point will most probably run into Adam Audio F5s. Great if it performs better than a streamer.

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Tune-in also tends to update the streams used in its lists more frequently than vTuner does. This makes them less likely to fail due to them being no longer available and more importantly, perhaps, helps keep up with technology.

 

If only favourited streams could automatically be removed if they are no longer available too. Just today four channels in a row on my favourite list had no available stream before the next one which did.

 

Some UPnP/DLNA media server software allows you do this for any UPnP/DLNA supporting streamer, even for those streamers that don't have their own internet radio function (ie, separate to their UPnP/DLNA network music file streaming function).

 

For example, the excellent free MinimServer UPnP media server can be used to add internet radio stream URLs as playlists. It even supports streaming from the BBC's latest HLS AAC streams, via its optional MinimStreamer transcoder module:

MinimStreamer

 

I've even configured MinimServer/MinimStreamer to allow my Pioneer N-50 network audio player (normally uses vTuner for internet radio) to access those highest quality (as far as current internet radio is concerned) 1000kbps+ Ogg FLAC radio streams I mentioned in post #16. With further (minor) DIY, the same for Chromecast Audio.

 

I don't need a network streaming server though, I'm only using my setup in one room. Good to know though.

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As an example, you can add custom TuneIn stations with Bluesound devices.

 

Isn't Tune-in inherently available in Bluesound devices through the Bluesound app? Or do you mean you can add stations to Tune-in that aren't already available in it (which I doubt since you can't do this on the website or on the app)?

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Isn't Tune-in inherently available in Bluesound devices through the Bluesound app? Or do you mean you can add stations to Tune-in that aren't already available in it (which I doubt since you can't do this on the website or on the app)?

 

Yes, Tunein is indeed "built-in" and yes, you can add stations which aren't listed already. In the "Enhancements" section ... "Custom Tunein Stations":

 

https://support.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/articles/217770638-Introducing-BluOS-2-0-0

 

BTW, if you are seriously looking at Bluesound you should be looking at their 2nd generation products IMO. You'll spend a bit more but gen 2 is said to be better all around.

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I don't need a network streaming server though, I'm only using my setup in one room. Good to know though.
Good network software & hardware should be as scalable as required. Just because you are using only one room, doesn't mean using a UPnP/DLNA media server won't serve you just as well as any larger (or smaller) configuration. MinimServer is designed to be run even in the same box as the UPnP/DLNA network music file renderer/player/streamer it's serving, so just one part of that one room in that case!

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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Yes, Tunein is indeed "built-in" and yes, you can add stations which aren't listed already. In the "Enhancements" section ... "Custom Tunein Stations":

 

https://support.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/articles/217770638-Introducing-BluOS-2-0-0

 

BTW, if you are seriously looking at Bluesound you should be looking at their 2nd generation products IMO. You'll spend a bit more but gen 2 is said to be better all around.

 

Oh, wow, ok, that's interesting.

 

Yea, the 1st gen is on sale at the moment for clearance. I'll probably only be putting my setup together at the end of the year, so perhaps the prices of the 2nd gen may drop by then. With my budget, it'll be hard to justify spending too much on a standalone player cos I'll have my PC right there.

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Good network software & hardware should be as scalable as required. Just because you are using only one room, doesn't mean using a UPnP/DLNA media server won't serve you just as well as any larger (or smaller) configuration. MinimServer is designed to be run even in the same box as the UPnP/DLNA network music file renderer/player/streamer it's serving, so just one part of that one room in that case!

 

Hmm, yes, ok.. So what is the main reason I would use it in a single configuration over a more straightforward setup?

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Thanks for all the info.

 

You say Pi + CCA combo.. You mean you use them with each other? How? I thought you'd either use the Pi or the CCA but not both together.

 

Yea, if I go with the SBC, I've been looking at probably going with the Schiit Modi 2 Uber or Multibit + SYS preamp, unless there's a better budget DAC around, which at this point will most probably run into Adam Audio F5s. Great if it performs better than a streamer.

 

In my setup, Pi works as a server/source primarily for local content. CCA works as a renderer/transport and connects to the DAC/AVR/speakers. CCA also works as server/source for radio streams that have apps - iHeartRadio, Spotify, Slacker Radio, etc. but there are many others that don't have an app, but can be added to MinimServer that runs on the Pi. In way they both complement each other.

 

I also have a more powerful server, Synology NAS, but don't really use it that much for audio duties, more for video via Plex. If you have the budget for a NAS and media player/streamer then Synology is highly recommended... Audio Station on it lets you play a ton of content at home and out of home and without the need for any DIY. Pi is the more budget friendly DIY approach.

Next to the Word of God, the noble art of music is the greatest treasure in the world - Martin Luther

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Hmm, yes, ok.. So what is the main reason I would use it in a single configuration over a more straightforward setup?
Isn't that a question for you to answer, as you appear to be the one that's aiming to run one device to provide all of your online/network audio needs?

 

My original point was simply to highlight that the media server software you may already be using to supply music files to a music file streamer, might also have the ability to add internet radio stream links, to also stream from.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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Thanks.

 

Unfortunately both the Heos and Naim are either out of my budget or don't really fit the profile of my requirement for a stand alone player without speakers as far as I can tell.

 

I currently use Tune-In on my PC as my main source of internet radio.

 

Any other tips you might have on getting the best out of it is welcome.

 

Two.

 

1) Google Chromecast audio. Stream with tune-in from an idevice.

 

2) A raspberry pi clone, like an Odroid C2. Install Volumio on it. You now have two radio streaming choices; either from your own entered URLs or by using Airplay from an Apple device or HTC 10.

 

Both options are well below $100 including some cables. You can upgrade by replacing the power supplies.

Synology DS214+ with MinimServer --> Ethernet --> Sonore mRendu / SOtM SMS-200 --> Chord Hugo --> Chord interconnects --> Naim NAP 200--> Chord speaker cable --> Focal Aria 948

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In my setup, Pi works as a server/source primarily for local content. CCA works as a renderer/transport and connects to the DAC/AVR/speakers. CCA also works as server/source for radio streams that have apps - iHeartRadio, Spotify, Slacker Radio, etc. but there are many others that don't have an app, but can be added to MinimServer that runs on the Pi. In way they both complement each other.

 

I also have a more powerful server, Synology NAS, but don't really use it that much for audio duties, more for video via Plex. If you have the budget for a NAS and media player/streamer then Synology is highly recommended... Audio Station on it lets you play a ton of content at home and out of home and without the need for any DIY. Pi is the more budget friendly DIY approach.

 

Why not output straight from the Pi? Is it to minimise 'noise'?

 

I ruled out a Synology NAS a long time ago. With little local content and a desktop setup restricted just to the one room, I don't see the justification to purchase a dedicated server. Unless there's something I should know? Otherwise it makes sense to me just to use an external USB drive.

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@Thisisaline .. may I ask your budget? As you know, one person's expensive is another's cheap & cheerful. We are fortunate these days, such amazing performance can be had for so little cash.

 

I've always found it hard to specify a budget when it comes to audio, ht, pc gear. I've tried a number of times but just can't do it. For me, value comes first and foremost.

 

What I can say is that in general audiophile terms, I shop at the low end of the scale. As a reference, at this point I could get a Pi + Schiit Modi + SYS for $200-$350 or a Node N-100 for about $300, so unless there's something that gives me better value for similar, i'm not inclined to go too much higher than that.* This especially because, again, I'll have my PC right there, so at this point it's hard to justify spending a significant amount to put a standalone source right next to it. Obviously I'll need a DAC either way, and if a streamer can do double duty and a Pi doesn't cost much, then why not if either setup gives better SQ than a PC. It's the value.

 

*Alternatively, the component scale can be used as a reference, with the speakers as the most expensive component. I'll probably be going with Adam Audio F5s.

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Isn't that a question for you to answer, as you appear to be the one that's aiming to run one device to provide all of your online/network audio needs?

 

Yes, quite right. i suppose I asked the wrong question. What I should ask is:

 

If I have no need for networking/multi-room use, is there any particular reason for me to use MinimServer over say Moode or Volumio?

 

As I mentioned to @master, I have little local content. I could imagine a server and its corresponding software maybe being useful in a small one-room setup if you have a hefty library. But otherwise, I don't think it would be too useful for the cost. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Two.

 

1) Google Chromecast audio. Stream with tune-in from an idevice.

 

2) A raspberry pi clone, like an Odroid C2. Install Volumio on it. You now have two radio streaming choices; either from your own entered URLs or by using Airplay from an Apple device or HTC 10.

 

Both options are well below $100 including some cables. You can upgrade by replacing the power supplies.

 

Perhaps this is a bit of a daft question, but does having to go wireless with the Chromecast have any impact on SQ?

 

Why the C2 over the Pi?

 

@master also mentioned using the Chromecast for radio with/over the Pi. Why not use the Pi or C2 for all radio? Does the Chromecast have options not accessible by either?

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Why not output straight from the Pi? Is it to minimise 'noise'?

 

I ruled out a Synology NAS a long time ago. With little local content and a desktop setup restricted just to the one room, I don't see the justification to purchase a dedicated server. Unless there's something I should know? Otherwise it makes sense to me just to use an external USB drive.

 

Perhaps this is a bit of a daft question, but does having to go wireless with the Chromecast have any impact on SQ?

 

Why the C2 over the Pi?

 

@master also mentioned using the Chromecast for radio with/over the Pi. Why not use the Pi or C2 for all radio? Does the Chromecast have options not accessible by either?

 

The CCA having Toslink output offers better SQ than the Pi's USB or HDMI. I'd never use the default output from the Pi. Either use an i2s DAC/output from the Pi or go wireless with DLNA/UPnP.

 

That said I've seen the Pi used with good DACs like the Chord 2Qute that has electrical isolation and in this case the Pi holds its own against any source/transport. So either go with Toslink output or wireless streaming to eliminate electrical noise from the Pi, the CCA does this anyways.

 

Also, having a multiroom setup - I stream everything from a NAS - in other words everything is wireless. CCA offers the easy/cheap solution of making all my equipment wireless as opposed to buying a wireless DAC or receiver.

 

Also, to add to what Cebolla has mentioned do keep in mind that all of these devices - CCA, Pi, streamers and speakers like Sonos, BlueSound, Auralic, etc. all run headless i.e. without a monitor. In a way they are all network driven and need the internet to even function. Even in a single room setup they will need multiple devices to function, like a smartphone or tablet and an app at the very least. Not like the old days where armed with a remote you'd not need anything else. Today's equipment needs and runs on the local network anyways.

 

Seeing you have little local content I'd highly recommend the CCA for starters. $35 or $30 on a deal and you get an excellent device with tons of content that can be plugged into anything with either analog or Toslink input. Better with an external DAC, but considering what it costs the internal DAC will hold its own too... I've used both the analog and the Toslink interface with my Yamaha AVR and couldn't really hear much of a difference in SQ.

Next to the Word of God, the noble art of music is the greatest treasure in the world - Martin Luther

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I've always found it hard to specify a budget when it comes to audio, ht, pc gear. I've tried a number of times but just can't do it. For me, value comes first and foremost.

 

What I can say is that in general audiophile terms, I shop at the low end of the scale. As a reference, at this point I could get a Pi + Schiit Modi + SYS for $200-$350 or a Node N-100 for about $300, so unless there's something that gives me better value for similar, i'm not inclined to go too much higher than that.* This especially because, again, I'll have my PC right there, so at this point it's hard to justify spending a significant amount to put a standalone source right next to it. Obviously I'll need a DAC either way, and if a streamer can do double duty and a Pi doesn't cost much, then why not if either setup gives better SQ than a PC. It's the value.

 

*Alternatively, the component scale can be used as a reference, with the speakers as the most expensive component. I'll probably be going with Adam Audio F5s.

 

OK, I get it now. Speakers are always a good place to start and I think you'd be wise to get that sorted out first. Once you decide on speakers and have them in your system for a while, then decide if you want/need to continue upgrading. Speakers, as you know, will give you the biggest change in sound. That in mind, you may find yourself quite happy with just that change.

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The CCA having Toslink output offers better SQ than the Pi's USB or HDMI. I'd never use the default output from the Pi. Either use an i2s DAC/output from the Pi or go wireless with DLNA/UPnP.

 

That said I've seen the Pi used with good DACs like the Chord 2Qute that has electrical isolation and in this case the Pi holds its own against any source/transport. So either go with Toslink output or wireless streaming to eliminate electrical noise from the Pi, the CCA does this anyways.

 

Also, having a multiroom setup - I stream everything from a NAS - in other words everything is wireless. CCA offers the easy/cheap solution of making all my equipment wireless as opposed to buying a wireless DAC or receiver.

 

Also, to add to what Cebolla has mentioned do keep in mind that all of these devices - CCA, Pi, streamers and speakers like Sonos, BlueSound, Auralic, etc. all run headless i.e. without a monitor. In a way they are all network driven and need the internet to even function. Even in a single room setup they will need multiple devices to function, like a smartphone or tablet and an app at the very least. Not like the old days where armed with a remote you'd not need anything else. Today's equipment needs and runs on the local network anyways.

 

Seeing you have little local content I'd highly recommend the CCA for starters. $35 or $30 on a deal and you get an excellent device with tons of content that can be plugged into anything with either analog or Toslink input. Better with an external DAC, but considering what it costs the internal DAC will hold its own too... I've used both the analog and the Toslink interface with my Yamaha AVR and couldn't really hear much of a difference in SQ.

 

Thanks a lot, now I have a fairly good understanding of CCA vs Pi and the reason for your setup.

 

Yes, thanks, I'm very aware that they are all headless; I'll have my PC and tablet to use.

 

CCA does indeed seem like a good option.

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OK, I get it now. Speakers are always a good place to start and I think you'd be wise to get that sorted out first. Once you decide on speakers and have them in your system for a while, then decide if you want/need to continue upgrading. Speakers, as you know, will give you the biggest change in sound. That in mind, you may find yourself quite happy with just that change.

 

Thanks.

 

Yea, technically I could just start with my PC hooked up direct to active monitors if I want. It'll be interesting to do comparisons with and without the external DAC, and between PC and SBC/Chromecast.

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Perhaps this is a bit of a daft question, but does having to go wireless with the Chromecast have any impact on SQ?

 

Why the C2 over the Pi?

 

@master also mentioned using the Chromecast for radio with/over the Pi. Why not use the Pi or C2 for all radio? Does the Chromecast have options not accessible by either?

 

Chromecast works out of the box. No installation of software required. And it is an unbeatable low price.

 

The C2 is technically better with a much faster CPU and separate network and USB controllers. So, for streaming purposes to a USB DAC it is technically better.

Synology DS214+ with MinimServer --> Ethernet --> Sonore mRendu / SOtM SMS-200 --> Chord Hugo --> Chord interconnects --> Naim NAP 200--> Chord speaker cable --> Focal Aria 948

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Chromecast works out of the box. No installation of software required. And it is an unbeatable low price.

 

The C2 is technically better with a much faster CPU and separate network and USB controllers. So, for streaming purposes to a USB DAC it is technically better.

 

Thanks for the info on the C2.

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