Article: AudioQuest DragonFly Red & DragonFly Black Review

[Deyorew]

So I purchased the Wavelength Proton back in 2009 as my main system DAC. Is the Dragonfly RED going to give me a little bit better sound? I like the idea of having a DAC without a power supply!

[qdwieertteyrujpo]

I quite like this one:

 

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/onkyo-hf-player/id704139896?mt=8

 

I found myself using https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/kaisertone-audio-player-hires/id725299207?mt=8 more than the Onkyo app, which I still like very much.

[jeff0610]

Hi Chris,

 

I also have the Sennheiser HD600 headphones. I love them and have tried other headphones and I can see why Head-fi.org still ranks the HD650s tops and the HD600s 2nd. Did you try the Sennheiser HD600 headphones with the black and did the black drive the Sennheiser HD600 headphones sufficiently?

 

Thank You,

 

Jeff

 

Chris,

 

Great review as usual! One question for the present and two about the future (you can probably guess what they are):

 

1) Any compatibility issues regarding DF's with Android or Windows Phone?

2) What are AQ's MQA implementation plans (will these DF's be software upgradeable)?

3) Any future plans for higher data rate support like 192 or DSD? - I hear you groaning already :-)

 

BTW, I saw RATM back in the late 90s at the LA Forum and it was hands down the best concert I've ever attended (PJ and Springsteen included), a sea of undulating bodies. Most unusual concert: a double bill of David Bowie followed by Nine Inch Nails. Both great shows and they shared the stage for an awesome medley, but most of the Bowie audience left after he finished and most of the NIN audience didn't arrive until after Bowie finished. Too bad for them, but it allowed me to move to the front of the stage :-)

[tomf]

As a long-time visitor, this review prompts me to comment on a trend I've noticed--reviews increasingly seem like they quote untested information from the manufacturer. Your readers look to you for independent thought. I now read the info here more skeptically, and since your subjective comments rely on your readers' trust, this is a big loss. Worst examples from this review:

 

1. "The new Black and Red units only serve to improve upon the original and improve our enjoyment of the greatest music in the world.". Since the review invites us to look at other sites for information on any use case but an iPhone streaming Tidal, this statement is completely without any foundation in the review itself. It sounds like a quote from a marketing blurb, particularly everything after the word "and".

 

2. "The new products deserved so much more than a simple numerical model number increase, that AudioQuest named them the DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red." The name/version of the product doesn't affect performance; again, it's just marketing

 

3. "This thing just oozes quality." Appearance doesn't prove quality, performance and durability are what matters.

[new_media]

Thanks for the review, Chris. I picked up a Dragonfly Red at Gig Harbor Audio on Friday. Works great with my iPhone and the USB Camera Adapter.

 

I was very happy that the Dragonfly can be powered by the phone. I have a Meridian Explorer 2, and was disappointed that it can't be powered by a phone or an iPad. I told the shop owner he may sell a lot of these if the iPhone 7 really comes with no headphone jack.

[徐中銳]

Well, trust is an important issue. But the difference between trust-to-buy and trust-to-try.

Okay, will readers know the difference ? Yeah, nowadays, paucity of brick-and-mortar specialist dealers, prevalence of online shops.

Should reviews be engaging or...

Of scepticism, I basically linked this to my signature on the first day

 

As a long-time visitor, this review prompts me to comment on a trend I've noticed--reviews increasingly seem like they quote untested information from the manufacturer. Your readers look to you for independent thought. I now read the info here more skeptically, and since your subjective comments rely on your readers' trust, this is a big loss. Worst examples from this review:

 

1. "The new Black and Red units only serve to improve upon the original and improve our enjoyment of the greatest music in the world.". Since the review invites us to look at other sites for information on any use case but an iPhone streaming Tidal, this statement is completely without any foundation in the review itself. It sounds like a quote from a marketing blurb, particularly everything after the word "and".

 

2. "The new products deserved so much more than a simple numerical model number increase, that AudioQuest named them the DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red." The name/version of the product doesn't affect performance; again, it's just marketing

 

3. "This thing just oozes quality." Appearance doesn't prove quality, performance and durability are what matters.

[The Computer Audiophile]

As a long-time visitor, this review prompts me to comment on a trend I've noticed--reviews increasingly seem like they quote untested information from the manufacturer. Your readers look to you for independent thought. I now read the info here more skeptically, and since your subjective comments rely on your readers' trust, this is a big loss. Worst examples from this review:

 

1. "The new Black and Red units only serve to improve upon the original and improve our enjoyment of the greatest music in the world.". Since the review invites us to look at other sites for information on any use case but an iPhone streaming Tidal, this statement is completely without any foundation in the review itself. It sounds like a quote from a marketing blurb, particularly everything after the word "and".

 

2. "The new products deserved so much more than a simple numerical model number increase, that AudioQuest named them the DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red." The name/version of the product doesn't affect performance; again, it's just marketing

 

3. "This thing just oozes quality." Appearance doesn't prove quality, performance and durability are what matters.

Hi Tom - Thanks for being a long-time visitor. With 2 posts in four years, you're in the camp of 98% of CA readers. Most just read without commenting. Thus, I take it you felt a strong need to comment in this review, based on your perception. I like nothing more than to read honest comments, both good and constructive.

 

Let's dive into your constructive criticism to see if we can turn this into something good for the CA community.

 

First, the words in this, and all my, reviews are 100% my own and reflect only my experience with the product. When I am jazzed by a product, I write much more enthusiastically about the product than when a product is ho-hum. Please let me know if something seems untested in this review. I test everything I about which I write. When it comes to independent thought, I think it's pretty clear that this review contains nothing but independent thought. I don't know of another HiFi site that would focus a review solely on the use of a product with an iOS device. i wanted to do 1) something different that all the other sites, and 2) relay to the CA community exactly how I use these devices and how they may benefit from using the devices like me. it would have been far easier to connect the Flys to my main system and A/B compare them to my $100,000+ setup. That would have bored me and likely the readers and taught the community nothing. In this review I also included an educational piece that tells how to use the DFs with an iOS device. You may have already known about the options, but I can guarantee you most people were unaware. Writing about a device unlike most other publications, educating people, and offering my honest opinion, is pretty independent in my book.

 

1. That sentence is 100% sincere. I am a music lover who loved great quality sound. I truly believe and wanted to get the point across to the CA community that the new DFs do indeed improve the quality of our music on the go. If better sound quality doesn't increase your enjoyment of your favorite music, then so be it. Nothing wrong with that. I've found that most people at CA have increased enjoyment of their favorite music when they use a component capable of delivering better sound quality. I don't see how you connect the dots between my statement and lack of a foundation etc... The statement if 100% fact. If the DFs improve our enjoyment of music, what's wrong with the statement? I hope you can clarify your thinking on this one. Maybe I'm a bit slow, but I just don't follow the logic.

 

 

2. I can't your your opinion is wrong because it's just an opinion, but I do disagree. Suggesting you know about all names for all products and the reasons for them is a bit disingenuous. I believe names can be both marketing and indicative of a performance change or such a dramatic change for the consumer that a simple increment in numerical value doesn't do it justice. Going from the DragonFly 1 to 1.2 was a fairly small change and not a change at all with respect to the USB controller that enables iOS / Android usage. Calling the new DFs 1.3/1.4 would undersell the nature of the change.

 

 

3. Again, we see things quite differently. Looking at a new Rolls Royce Serenity Phantom (LINK) with its lush custom interiors, I can easily say "this thing oozes quality." The adjective, "oozing quality" is taking creative license to describe what I see and feel. In the audio world, just like the automobile world, product can ooze quality. In this instance, the new DF red oozes quality. To suggest something oozes quality means exactly that, it looks and feels like a high quality product. High quality products usually offer good durability and I believe the DF Red is no exception. Oozing quality doesn't necessarily mean anything about specific performance metrics. If anyone was mislead into thinking the DF Red has great "performance" based on my statement that "This thing oozes quality," and in context of its look and feel, then that's unfortunate. My comments about performance are elsewhere in the review.

 

Anyway, thanks again for your patronage of CA and for the constructive criticism.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Chris,

 

I also have the Sennheiser HD600 headphones. I love them and have tried other headphones and I can see why Head-fi.org still ranks the HD650s tops and the HD600s 2nd. Did you try the Sennheiser HD600 headphones with the black and did the black drive the Sennheiser HD600 headphones sufficiently?

 

Thank You,

 

Jeff

Hi Jeff - Good to see another reader enjoying oldies but goodies. The Sennheiser HD6xx series is fabulous. IN my experience the Red is required for the HD600 to reach all its potential.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Thanks for the review, Chris. I picked up a Dragonfly Red at Gig Harbor Audio on Friday. Works great with my iPhone and the USB Camera Adapter.

 

I was very happy that the Dragonfly can be powered by the phone. I have a Meridian Explorer 2, and was disappointed that it can't be powered by a phone or an iPad. I told the shop owner he may sell a lot of these if the iPhone 7 really comes with no headphone jack.

I'm with you. When the next iPhone comes out without a 3.5mm output, the DragonFlys are literally going to fly off the shelves.

[Audio_ELF]

I'm with you. When the next iPhone comes out without a 3.5mm output, the DragonFlys are literally going to fly off the shelves.

Chris ... Surely thats only an "if" ... or at most an "if as expected".

 

Until Apple actually show the iPhone 7 (or whatever its called) surely you know better than to report rumours (especially Apple rumours) as fact!

[The Computer Audiophile]

Chris ... Surely thats only an "if" ... or at most an "if as expected".

 

Until Apple actually show the iPhone 7 (or whatever its called) surely you know better than to report rumours (especially Apple rumours) as fact!

Life is an if, but on this one I am talking about it as a certainty because even Apple leaked the info way early on to get people used to the idea.

[Archimago]

I'm with you. When the next iPhone comes out without a 3.5mm output, the DragonFlys are literally going to fly off the shelves.

 

I don't know about "flying off the shelves" Chris.

 

If they remove the analogue output, it'll be a pretty big step towards their MO which is *wireless* audio playback. Like the Macbook with USB C ports, Apple is about making things smaller, simpler and less tethered.

 

I'm sure there'll be a bunch of folks buying "digital" wired headphones with basic built-in DAC. This move will also push sales of Bluetooth headphones.

 

Carrying a USB Camera adaptor + Dragonfly IMO will still be inconvenient for most folks.

[new_media]

I certainly got the feeling that Apple is trying to get me used to the idea of wireless headphones when they gave me a free pair of Bluetooth earbuds with my new iPad.

[Archimago]

I certainly got the feeling that Apple is trying to get me used to the idea of wireless headphones when they gave me a free pair of Bluetooth earbuds with my new iPad.

 

Interesting New Media. How well do they work (reliable pairing, battery life) and do they sound OK?

 

Hopefully a good CODEC can be used (like apt X at least) if that's the push.

 

I was speaking to a guy working for a mobile start-up here in Beijing today. Looks like many are gearing up for development of digital headphones utilizing the Lightning connector. With the extra power available, stuff like active noise reduction designs already are in or close to production (I saw a design using ear buds, not the large closed designs like the Bose QuietComfort or Beats Studio). He also showed me a new apt-X Bluetooth headphone design an associate was working on...

 

Looks like the next round of mobile audio headphones coming soon (for better or worse). If the wireless CODEC is good and battery life reasonable, could be nice, especially if they can incorporate a lossless encoding technique that's supported by the phone. Would suck to stream lossy AAC/MP3 to another level of lossy Bluetooth encoding!

[wdw]

Would it be reasonable to expect the next iteration would be thunderbolt rather than USB. Isn't the PCIe bus (I understand thunderbolt to be PCIe) a "quieter" computer interface?

Dunno...just a dummy.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Would it be reasonable to expect the next iteration would be thunderbolt rather than USB. Isn't the PCIe bus (I understand thunderbolt to be PCIe) a "quieter" computer interface?

Dunno...just a dummy.

I doubt there will ever be a thunderbolt version. The market for Thunderbolt is tiny. The PCIe bus is much higher speed and much noisier than USB or a PCI bus.

[wdw]

I doubt there will ever be a thunderbolt version. The market for Thunderbolt is tiny. The PCIe bus is much higher speed and much noisier than USB or a PCI bus.

I'm out of my discipline talking about this stuff so could easily be way off base but I believe it was Superdad who said that PCEe was more discrete than current standards. apologies to Superdad if I am mistaken.

As the data is first ported out through thunderbolt isn't it natively PCEi?

Isn't USB gone in, say, five years....a legacy protocal that is outliving it's utility.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Thunderbolt will be gone long before USB. There are so many mobile devices that use micro and mini USB and peripheral devices that use USB that it isn't going anywhere soon.

 

Thunderbolt may may have a technical advantage but that doesn't mean much.

[wdw]

Thunderbolt will be gone long before USB. There are so many mobile devices that use micro and mini USB and peripheral devices that use USB that it isn't going anywhere soon.

 

Thunderbolt may may have a technical advantage but that doesn't mean much.

Chris, best.

But your reply tells me....is this, forgive my age, a BetaMax/VHS argument....this lessor technology is still resident despite the superiority of another format.

Is PCIe a less noisy format?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Chris, best.

But your reply tells me....is this, forgive my age, a BetaMax/VHS argument....this lessor technology is still resident despite the superiority of another format.

Is PCIe a less noisy format?

Hi @wdw The VHS thing is what I was thinking about when I wrote that but had to run before I could write more. Thunderbolt could very well be a better technology and interface than the USB protocol, but it may not matter in the end. With respect to audio I've been told thunderbolt is electrically extremely noisy due to its high speed. I've been told the same thing about PCIe as opposed to PCI. I can't absolutely confirm this by running tests and conducting a longitudinal study, but I've anecdotally confirmed it with my ears as have others I respect.

 

P.S. I used to think a lightning version of the DragonFly would be great, but I'm not so sure anymore, for various reasons.

[tomf]

Chris, Thanks very much for the lengthy reply--as the saying goes you exceeded my expectations. Speaking of sayings, I like to say that if I only talk with people who agree with me, I'll never learn anything new, so it's fine if we don't see eye-to-eye on everything. I also like to say that when I am trying to be persuasive, I should ask myself whether the comment I just made can apply equally well to all the alternatives. Since you asked for clarification on one point, it seems to me that any audio product that improves on the original can claim that it improves our enjoyment of music relative to the original. That doesn't mean it's a product worth buying. If your statement has any meaning, it has to be relative to available alternatives not to the predecessor version. The available alternative doesn't have to be an on-premise $100,000 system (which I don't have lol). For what it's worth, I had no objection to the topic of the review itself, or to your enthusiasm for a solution to your issues to listening to music on the go--I travel a lot too and have come up with my own compromises; my comments were limited to what I saw as word choice that undermined at least the appearance of objectivity. --Tom

[Cycleman]

Well, Chris, your words have (not for the first time) influenced my spending.

 

And I'm real happy about it.

 

Got the red DragonFly, added the Apple adapter, and along with the iPhone 6 and Oppo PM-3 headphones already here, I now have the best portable music setup I've ever owned...going back to the first iPods Apple shipped out to early adopters like me in October 2001.

 

I don't need it much, mainly just when I take the train into the City, but it's super elegant.

 

Dave, who is looking forward to the next or subsequent iteration of the iPhone that should have 256GB storage

[LCC0256]

I realize that my car performs analog to digital conversion for DSP upon receiving the analog signal, but I have to get the analog signal out of my iPhone anyway and I prefer to do that the best way possible.

 

 

Chris would you (or anyone else here) please explain this to me. Does this mean that even though you sent an analog audio signal to the head unit in your car the head unit STILL PERFORMS some sort of D/A function? If true i assume that the same would be true for home AVR units also? In other words IF you use an external DAC PRIOR TO an AVR (feeding the AVR an analog signal via traditional RCA type cables from the DAC - the internal DAC of the AVR will still ultimately perform the the DAC function? You mention DSP - why would that come into play IF the input signal is already an analog signal? I did try to read the "beginner's guide" to DSP but it did not help me with my understanding of why an analog signal cannot be passed through the amp circuitry out to the speakers without having to be "processed" by a DSP.

[meyers66]

Chris, Thanks very much for the lengthy reply--as the saying goes you exceeded my expectations. Speaking of sayings, I like to say that if I only talk with people who agree with me, I'll never learn anything new, so it's fine if we don't see eye-to-eye on everything. I also like to say that when I am trying to be persuasive, I should ask myself whether the comment I just made can apply equally well to all the alternatives. Since you asked for clarification on one point, it seems to me that any audio product that improves on the original can claim that it improves our enjoyment of music relative to the original. That doesn't mean it's a product worth buying. If your statement has any meaning, it has to be relative to available alternatives not to the predecessor version. The available alternative doesn't have to be an on-premise $100,000 system (which I don't have lol). For what it's worth, I had no objection to the topic of the review itself, or to your enthusiasm for a solution to your issues to listening to music on the go--I travel a lot too and have come up with my own compromises; my comments were limited to what I saw as word choice that undermined at least the appearance of objectivity. --Tom

 

I'm new to this forum and recently bought the DF Red. I'm also new to the whole audiophile field. The Red is also new so the audio scrapping sound while watching a video last night may go away, I'll give it time to break in.

 

I appreciate tomf's comments and his reply. Yes different opinions are important as is the flexibility to hear others opinions. What I also liked about tomf's reply was the point about the "sound compared to what". This is why I'm reading this blog. Frankly I'm not interested in hype. I don't mind Chris's comments bc those are his opinions, c'est le vie.

 

So far most of what I've read about this whole audiophile stuff, e.g. Berkeley Audio Lab, is way past my purchasing power and frankly with all the shit that's going on in the world I don't think major money should be spent on this anyway. But that's just my .02$. I know, should be posted elsewhere.

 

What I'm interested in is a audio hardware value sheet. E.g. Newbies should do steps 1-5 first. That sort of thing. Basics matter.

So I've read most of Riden's iHi-Fi ebook and found it useful and informative. I use the Herbie's Audio Lab isolation feet under my dated, 2007 HK Soundstick 2 speakers.

 

I'm also interested in a sound system that plays high res audio and TV audio out of one system, iMac, for less than $1000US. Is that the holy grail? When I chatted with Sonos they told me their sound bar, $700, was for TV audio. So that was a block.

[meyers66]

Original article: "I also use this same adapter for playback in my car with the DragonFly / iPhone combination. My car has an analog input that enables me to send analog audio from the DragonFly to the head unit. I realize that my car performs analog to digital conversion for DSP upon receiving the analog signal, but I have to get the analog signal out of my iPhone anyway and I prefer to do that the best way possible. I then run a lightning cable from one of my car's power ports (cigarette lighter for those of you still hanging on to the past) to the input of the adapter. This powers my iPhone the entire road trip."

I'd like to learn more about this car stereo. I'd like to do the same thing buying an aftermarket stereo. Suggestions? TIA