SlowikPL Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I will receive my updated La Scala on Monday. I doubt that I will be able to offer much regarding an old vs. new comparison, given I have to rely strictly on memory. That is, unless the sound is significantly different. Very excited to find out. Hi Kimo, I'll like to know if you have received the upgraded unit back? What are your findings about the upgrade of your La Scala MK2 vs Optologic? I have the dilemma to do it or not with me unit. Robert Link to comment
Kimo Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Hi Kimo, I'll like to know if you have received the upgraded unit back? What are your findings about the upgrade of your La Scala MK2 vs Optologic? I have the dilemma to do it or not with me unit. Robert I have received the updated unit and I believe I have enough burn in to report. The workmanship is first rate. The quality of the install is worth noting. I would say the updated unit provides the listener a smoother, slightly denser, more analog feel than the original. Staging, detail, and instrument separation are probably improved, as well. I cannot identify any audible steps down in the sound. It is all good. The only caution I would offer is that the original ran fully dual differential balanced, and the new unit uses transformers for a balanced output. I preferred the original through the balanced outputs, and the Optologic single ended. Link to comment
EuroDriver Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I first heard the Aqua Formula on Dec 10, when I was doing a demo of the SGM. We used Poly Sinc Shrt MP and TPDF to convert everything to 24/352 or 384. We were very impressed by the sound in a system with a Bespoke balanced TVC, Pass amps and Zu speakers My second encounter was in early January in Seattle at Mike Lavignes where the system was SGM > Formula > XLR in to Dartzeel pre and power amps and Evolution Acoustics MM7 speakers in a purpose built listening room. I had never heard digital reproduction so good, anywhere. Last week Alex at Alma Audio, CA told us we have got to try the Closed Form filter with the noise shaper NS5. On Wednesday we tried Closed Form in Monaco, and wow, a even higher level of transparency and realism. This was with SGM > Formula > EAR integrated > Avantgarde Duo speakers with a Trio Bass horns. The Aqua Formula does not stop surprising us with its detail, transparency, tonality and dynamics. The icing on the Cake, is how good native DSD64 tracks converted to DXD by HQ Player, sound when delivered to the Formula, quite stunning, the best DSD 64 Playback chain we have ever heard. IMHO, for anyone looking to put together a top shelf system, this is one DAC to have an extended audition. However, please note, that being a discrete R2R, it takes a long time to burn in, and takes at least a week to start showing its potential Sound Test, Monaco Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland e-mail [email protected] Link to comment
jacquesr Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Thank you so much for your feedback. Keep it coming - Very useful! I am currently looking at switching from La Scala to Formula. Will have the Formula in my system for extended time soon. If you pass by Montréal, let me know! Mac Mini Late 2014 (16G/SSD) w Uptone JS-2 w OWC Thunderbay 4 Mini RAID (JS-2) / Roon Aqua LinQ w EtherCon cable (Ghent) w Uptone EtherRegen w Uptone JS-2 Aqua Formula xHD w Ocellia RCA Interconnect & Shunyata Delta NR Kora TB 200 Integrated Amplifier w Audio Art Power Cable Magico V2 w Ocellia speaker cables w Shunyata Dark Field Elevator & JL Audio E-Sub e110 X 2 All equipment, including subwoofer on Modulum platforms (modulumaudio.com) Link to comment
jacquesr Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 One year later and I just received my Formula upgraded to xHD. Can you share your favorite HQP settings? Thanks Mac Mini Late 2014 (16G/SSD) w Uptone JS-2 w OWC Thunderbay 4 Mini RAID (JS-2) / Roon Aqua LinQ w EtherCon cable (Ghent) w Uptone EtherRegen w Uptone JS-2 Aqua Formula xHD w Ocellia RCA Interconnect & Shunyata Delta NR Kora TB 200 Integrated Amplifier w Audio Art Power Cable Magico V2 w Ocellia speaker cables w Shunyata Dark Field Elevator & JL Audio E-Sub e110 X 2 All equipment, including subwoofer on Modulum platforms (modulumaudio.com) Link to comment
jacquesr Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Men - I hate that when it happens. Stereophile has a very bizarre review of this DAC this month. I do not recognize my DAC in that description. It's like if the reviewer never tested it in a "optimized/proper" setup. Very disappointing. What rattles me the most is this: when I read a review of a gear I don't know, should I trust the review? Mac Mini Late 2014 (16G/SSD) w Uptone JS-2 w OWC Thunderbay 4 Mini RAID (JS-2) / Roon Aqua LinQ w EtherCon cable (Ghent) w Uptone EtherRegen w Uptone JS-2 Aqua Formula xHD w Ocellia RCA Interconnect & Shunyata Delta NR Kora TB 200 Integrated Amplifier w Audio Art Power Cable Magico V2 w Ocellia speaker cables w Shunyata Dark Field Elevator & JL Audio E-Sub e110 X 2 All equipment, including subwoofer on Modulum platforms (modulumaudio.com) Link to comment
sb6 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Can you please describe the difference in the Formula XHD upgrade? Do you feel it was worth it? Debating whether to do it or not on my Formula. Also, very curious now to read the Stereophile review, just subscribed for electronic subscription.. 4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC D1 Twelve DAC + Mk II Streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona with Kuzma 4 Point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack w/ Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room Link to comment
jacquesr Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Hi, The upgrade is a no-brainer. It's like having a new DAC. Check here: https://www.monoandstereo.com/2018/05/aqua-acoustic-quality-formula-xhd-dac.html Mac Mini Late 2014 (16G/SSD) w Uptone JS-2 w OWC Thunderbay 4 Mini RAID (JS-2) / Roon Aqua LinQ w EtherCon cable (Ghent) w Uptone EtherRegen w Uptone JS-2 Aqua Formula xHD w Ocellia RCA Interconnect & Shunyata Delta NR Kora TB 200 Integrated Amplifier w Audio Art Power Cable Magico V2 w Ocellia speaker cables w Shunyata Dark Field Elevator & JL Audio E-Sub e110 X 2 All equipment, including subwoofer on Modulum platforms (modulumaudio.com) Link to comment
Kimo Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 On 5/19/2018 at 11:08 AM, jacques_racine said: Men - I hate that when it happens. Stereophile has a very bizarre review of this DAC this month. I do not recognize my DAC in that description. It's like if the reviewer never tested it in a "optimized/proper" setup. Very disappointing. What rattles me the most is this: when I read a review of a gear I don't know, should I trust the review? I have not seen the review, nor do I know who wrote it, but I am going to guess that it was written by JVS and he found it harsh sounding. Link to comment
sb6 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Thanks jacques_racine I hadn't read that review. 4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC D1 Twelve DAC + Mk II Streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona with Kuzma 4 Point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack w/ Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room Link to comment
Kimo Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 I wonder if the Stereophile reviewer really did much listening? The review sounds a typical rehash of the NOS sound, all rolled off and analog like. Then again, why would someone buy an R2R dac that sounds just like a DSD dac. Link to comment
audio.bill Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 I didn't see the referenced Stereophile review available online until today, and the measurements are included: https://www.stereophile.com/content/aqua-acoustic-quality-aqua-formula-xhd-da-processor Link to comment
sb6 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just read the review and I own a Formula not yet upgraded to xHD. First, I hear absolutely nothing like what the reviewer states (less highs, less bass?) and I might add I had an Esoteric K03 beforehand for comparison (which the Formula handily trounced). Second - it's known by many Aqua owners balanced out sounds better. Third - my DAC took more than 400 hours to break in; to fully achieve the gloriously spacious sound stage and spacial cues requires more break - in. Fourth - I only tried SPDIF input with a cheapo Oppo but I wasn't nearly as impressed as USB in. Which gets to his computer audio system which was clearly sub - par (Mac with Jitterbug). Fifth - Many Formula owners also know that it greatly benefits sonically with upsampling (24/384 I found best via HQP) - big difference. My experiences align directly to the 6moons review (which was pre - xHD like mine) which won a Blue Moon Award. My 2.5 cents.. 4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC D1 Twelve DAC + Mk II Streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona with Kuzma 4 Point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack w/ Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room Link to comment
Panelhead Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 It may be the review sample was damaged. The measurements indicate an issue with unit. The output transformers should not saturate IMHO. I have input transformers that are small and never have issues. My only set of output transformers are Audio Note and large and heavy. Look like low power tube amp transformers. Maybe the ones used in the Formula do suffer from core saturation. I would rather see an active balanced circuit in a 17,000.00 dac. The Holo unit I looked at had two section dacs for the +/-. 2012 Mac Mini, i5 - 2.5 GHz, 16 GB RAM. SSD, PM/PV software, Focusrite Clarett 4Pre 4 channel interface. Daysequerra M4.0X Broadcast monitor., My_Ref Evolution rev a , Klipsch La Scala II, Blue Sky Sub 12 Clarett used as ADC for vinyl rips. Corning Optical Thunderbolt cable used to connect computer to 4Pre. Dac fed by iFi iPower and Noise Trapper isolation transformer. Link to comment
jacquesr Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 When I asked the designer a while ago he mentioned RCA was better. No transformers. Always had mine via RCA. I am glad there are more owners showing up here. Would love to get and share more info about HQP setup and tweaks. I really have the feeling the review is botched. Many big players had this DAC in their booths in Munich, including Innuos. Mac Mini Late 2014 (16G/SSD) w Uptone JS-2 w OWC Thunderbay 4 Mini RAID (JS-2) / Roon Aqua LinQ w EtherCon cable (Ghent) w Uptone EtherRegen w Uptone JS-2 Aqua Formula xHD w Ocellia RCA Interconnect & Shunyata Delta NR Kora TB 200 Integrated Amplifier w Audio Art Power Cable Magico V2 w Ocellia speaker cables w Shunyata Dark Field Elevator & JL Audio E-Sub e110 X 2 All equipment, including subwoofer on Modulum platforms (modulumaudio.com) Link to comment
sb6 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Interesting, Silvio said that single ended outputs sound better than balanced? 4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC D1 Twelve DAC + Mk II Streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona with Kuzma 4 Point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack w/ Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room Link to comment
jacquesr Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 OK - I checked my email and I was probably wrong... August 9, 2017 Dear Jacques, the Formula has a true balanced output by transformer.Usually, we prefer the balanced connection since the XLR connection connector has a better "grip" and cable with better symmetry and shielding but the sound performance is also in relation of preamp input stage, so it may happen that RCA sounds better than XLR.Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require further info.Thanks and best regards,Cristian Mac Mini Late 2014 (16G/SSD) w Uptone JS-2 w OWC Thunderbay 4 Mini RAID (JS-2) / Roon Aqua LinQ w EtherCon cable (Ghent) w Uptone EtherRegen w Uptone JS-2 Aqua Formula xHD w Ocellia RCA Interconnect & Shunyata Delta NR Kora TB 200 Integrated Amplifier w Audio Art Power Cable Magico V2 w Ocellia speaker cables w Shunyata Dark Field Elevator & JL Audio E-Sub e110 X 2 All equipment, including subwoofer on Modulum platforms (modulumaudio.com) Link to comment
jacquesr Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 I just put a comment on Stereophile.... You guys should do the same. I am really p*. Mac Mini Late 2014 (16G/SSD) w Uptone JS-2 w OWC Thunderbay 4 Mini RAID (JS-2) / Roon Aqua LinQ w EtherCon cable (Ghent) w Uptone EtherRegen w Uptone JS-2 Aqua Formula xHD w Ocellia RCA Interconnect & Shunyata Delta NR Kora TB 200 Integrated Amplifier w Audio Art Power Cable Magico V2 w Ocellia speaker cables w Shunyata Dark Field Elevator & JL Audio E-Sub e110 X 2 All equipment, including subwoofer on Modulum platforms (modulumaudio.com) Link to comment
sb6 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Thanks Jacques, Cristian's statement matches what I hear. My preamp is fully balanced and it's definitely better than RCA. 4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC D1 Twelve DAC + Mk II Streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona with Kuzma 4 Point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack w/ Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room Link to comment
opus101 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Panelhead said: It may be the review sample was damaged. The measurements indicate an issue with unit. It doesn't look to me like damage, as the chances of both channels being equally affected are infinitesimally small (see fig11). Looks more likely someone under-specified the output transformers. Fig11 shows the onset of saturation on both channels somewhere between 100 and 200Hz. Looks an order of magnitude too high a frequency for a DAC's output transformer. Link to comment
Kimo Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 The impulse response is a perfect pulse, per the measurements. Isn't that what R2R dacs are all about? Excellent time domain performance. The only conclusion I can draw from this review is one about the reviewer, he sort of sucks. Link to comment
mansr Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, Kimo said: The impulse response is a perfect pulse, per the measurements. That means it has inadequate filtering. Link to comment
Kimo Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, mansr said: That means it has inadequate filtering. Wouldn't it have inadequate filtering by definition? Link to comment
mansr Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kimo said: Wouldn't it have inadequate filtering by definition? I'm talking about the analogue filter after the D/A stage. Link to comment
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