Music for free...from a dealer?

[mrvco]

How would the dealer give away a Tidal sub without paying Tidal?

 

 

What if the dealer gave away a free 5 year subscription to Tidal? Is there an ethical equivalence of sorts that suddenly looks much less ominous?

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Hailey]

How would the dealer give away a Tidal sub without paying Tidal?

 

Five years of Tidal is $1200. One reason I dropped Tidal.

[Sal1950]

There's also the point that the VAST majority of people in this world go to work each day, do what they do, and at the end of the week get paid. Just once, not over and over and over for the fruits of their labor. Are you really going to cry if some multi millionaire guitar player doesn't continue to make more millions for the rest of his life on the residuals - etc. I'm not going to lose any sleep if kayne west or jay z don't get any richer.

Think about it as you slug off to the grind on Monday.

[esldude]

How would the dealer give away a Tidal sub without paying Tidal?

 

He would buy a Tidal subscription and turn it over to customers. Yes it would cost near $1200. Yet he would make available more music than a terabyte sized NAS. The cost of the music were the customer to purchase it all as separately owned music whether downloads, DVD, SACD or CD would be far in excess of $1200.

[kumakuma]

There's also the point that the VAST majority of people in this world go to work each day, do what they do, and at the end of the week get paid. Just once, not over and over and over for the fruits of their labor. Are you really going to cry if some multi millionaire guitar player doesn't continue to make more millions for the rest of his life on the residuals - etc. I'm not going to lose any sleep if kayne west or jay z don't get any richer.

Think about it as you slug off to the grind on Monday.

 

Just to clarify, do you believe it's okay to rip off all artists or only the rich ones?

[Sal1950]

Just to clarify, do you believe it's okay to rip off all artists or only the rich ones?

I don't discriminate.

Just to be clear, yes I believe the whole "intellectual property" thing is way out of control.

What do you do for a living? If your not some kind of "artist" your not getting paid more than once for your work. If you're not getting rich at work either work harder or get a new job.

Just to make an example of a CD, it's made, sold, and the creators all got their cut. When I buy it, it's mine.

I'll do as I please with it. If I rip it and chose to give it to you, or resell it on ebay, or whatever, what I do with it is my business.

In my life as a music lover I've spend a LOT of money over the years on music. Recorded, live, listening to the radio and putting up with the commercials, etc. They've earned plenty off Sal and still do. But because some kid sat on his bed practicing guitar instead of going to school or working like a dog to earn a living doesn't entitle him to be paid on a different scale as anyone else.

JMHO

[tranz]

There's also the point that the VAST majority of people in this world go to work each day, do what they do, and at the end of the week get paid. Just once, not over and over and over for the fruits of their labor. Are you really going to cry if some multi millionaire guitar player doesn't continue to make more millions for the rest of his life on the residuals - etc. I'm not going to lose any sleep if kayne west or jay z don't get any richer.

Think about it as you slug off to the grind on Monday.

 

And what about the 99.9% of other artists that struggle to put bread on the table?

[tranz]

I don't discriminate.

Just to be clear, yes I believe the whole "intellectual property" thing is way out of control.

What do you do for a living? If your not some kind of "artist" your not getting paid more than once for your work. If you're not getting rich at work either work harder or get a new job.

Just to make an example of a CD, it's made, sold, and the creators all got their cut. When I buy it, it's mine.

I'll do as I please with it. If I rip it and chose to give it to you, or resell it on ebay, or whatever, what I do with it is my business.

In my life as a music lover I've spend a LOT of money over the years on music. Recorded, live, listening to the radio and putting up with the commercials, etc. They've earned plenty off Sal and still do. But because some kid sat on his bed practicing guitar instead of going to school or working like a dog to earn a living doesn't entitle him to be paid on a different scale as anyone else.

JMHO

 

Sounds like you have absolutely no clue how much effort and talent is required to even create one song, forget about the effort of marketing that song so that you get a couple of cents for it.

 

Add to that the cutthroat competition and people like you that feel it is okay to steal from them...

[ShawnC]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a court ruling last year that stated all downloaded materials (itunes, HDtracks, ect.) no matter what format is considered worthless as far as a resale value. I think it also included any medium in which you were trying to sell it (SD card, portable drive, NAS ect.). It was talked about on another site. It basically means everything you download is worth nothing. This is one of the reason you may to still want buy physical media. Although, as we know the resale is terrible. This may be the loophole for this business, a go free card, as far as not getting in trouble for giving this stuff away for free. If it has no value, maybe they can't be liable. Now, I'm no lawyer so don't let the word liable start a frenzy on the laws at hand. If anyone else recalls this, please chime in. Just my 2 cents.

[Hailey]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a court ruling last year that stated all downloaded materials (itunes, HDtracks, ect.) no matter what format is considered worthless as far as a resale value. I think it also included any medium in which you were trying to sell it (SD card, portable drive, NAS ect.). It was talked about on another site. It basically means everything you download is worth nothing. This is one of the reason you may to still want buy physical media. Although, as we know the resale is terrible. This may be the loophole for this business, a go free card, as far as not getting in trouble for giving this stuff away for free. If it has no value, maybe they can't be liable. Now, I'm no lawyer so don't let the word liable start a frenzy on the laws at hand. If anyone else recalls this, please chime in. Just my 2 cents.

 

I think the Napster case settled this.

[Sal1950]

And what about the 99.9% of other artists that struggle to put bread on the table?

 

And what about the 99.9% of other people that beat their brains out every day to scratch out a very meager living to support their familys, Some times life ain't fair to anyone.

 

Sounds like you have absolutely no clue how much effort and talent is required to even create one song, forget about the effort of marketing that song so that you get a couple of cents for it.

Add to that the cutthroat competition and people like you that feel it is okay to steal from them...

 

Do you have any idea how much effort is behind earning a medical degree after paying $250K for the "chance" you might graduate. Do you have any idea how much effort is behind pulling the engine out of your car and rebuilding it, or the years it takes to learn the skills it takes to do so.

If you ever had a operation, every morning when you get up do you put some money in a cup to pay the Dr and staff residuals for you life?

If you've have your car repaired to you put money in a cup on the dash to pay residuals to the mechanic who repaired it.

We all deserve to be treated fairly and on an equal basis for our efforts.

In the current legal scenario, personally I feel it's the consumer that is getting ripped off.

You can't "steal" something that has already been paid for.

[17629v2]

What if the dealer gave away a free 5 year subscription to Tidal? Is there an ethical equivalence of sorts that suddenly looks much less ominous?

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

The dealer can give away anything he wants as long as he owns it. (Or in the case with Tidal, pays for a subscription.) You don't see the difference?

[ShawnC]

I think the Napster case settled this. The Napster case, not knowing for sure, dealt with online sharing at the time. Not so much with what you did with it as far as storage and redistribution of the stored data (selling a thumb drive on ebay with your favorite artist). At the time storage was expensive so people were sharing and storing on a laptop/tower driver per say. I agree that this was about the artist getting their pay. That's why the latest court case was accessing the value, if any, of what those downloads/or your ripped cd/dvds have without there original copyrighted physical medium. That last sentence was very wordy. As stated above I'm no lawyer or English professor, but trying to figure if there is any repercussions from doing what this business did. Or if anyone can just hand over 2TBs of music and not have any legal ramifications. Just curious

[17629v2]

I don't discriminate.

Just to be clear, yes I believe the whole "intellectual property" thing is way out of control.

What do you do for a living? If your not some kind of "artist" your not getting paid more than once for your work. If you're not getting rich at work either work harder or get a new job.

Just to make an example of a CD, it's made, sold, and the creators all got their cut. When I buy it, it's mine.

I'll do as I please with it. If I rip it and chose to give it to you, or resell it on ebay, or whatever, what I do with it is my business.

In my life as a music lover I've spend a LOT of money over the years on music. Recorded, live, listening to the radio and putting up with the commercials, etc. They've earned plenty off Sal and still do. But because some kid sat on his bed practicing guitar instead of going to school or working like a dog to earn a living doesn't entitle him to be paid on a different scale as anyone else.

JMHO

 

You complain like a little girl. There's plenty of money out there, and if you don't have any its your own fault. Did you ever consider that whatever it is you do isn't worth all that much? If you get off your ass and do something more than nothing, you won't have the time, or desire, to cry like a little kid.

[Teresa]

Sal, theft in never justified, either of music or any other consumer product.

 

Artists make less than 50 cents for every CD sold, and a few cents from streaming services, when a song is played.

 

You don't pay your doctor once and expect free care each time you visit after that do you? You don't pay for a car repair once and expect all future car repairs to be free do you? Some people are paid hourly and some people such as musicians are paid commission.

 

If your band's record makes "Gold" by selling 500,000 CDs by the time you pay for studio time, promotion, manager and other salaries etc. your band is left with $47,100. If there are four members in a band, that's $11,775 each, if your band has eight members that's $5,888 each. Most bands make an album every 2 to 3 years and most don't go gold and sell way less than 500,000 copies. And some bands actually end up owning the recording company money because they didn't sell enough copies. This would never happen if people didn't steal their music. Post internet, most bands now make most of their income by touring and selling T-shirts not album sales as it was before. Theft is destroying blues, jazz and indie artists. The kind of music I love, so people like you who feel it is OK to steal music really piss me off. Soon we may only have the million dollar superstars who produce music I hate!

 

In short, just because a small minority of musical artists make millions is no justification to steal music, most musical artists I'm sure make much less than you.

 

See: Record Sales Where Does the Money Go

[Sal1950]

You complain like a little girl. There's plenty of money out there, and if you don't have any its your own fault. Did you ever consider that whatever it is you do isn't worth all that much? If you get off your ass and do something more than nothing, you won't have the time, or desire, to cry like a little kid.

I'm retired and living quite comfortably thank you.

But other than calling me names and trying to insult me, what has your ignorant post to do with the discussion on intellectual property?

[esldude]

The dealer can give away anything he wants as long as he owns it. (Or in the case with Tidal, pays for a subscription.) You don't see the difference?

Yes I see the legal difference. So?

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[kumakuma]

Sal, theft in never justified, either of music or any other consumer product.

 

Artists make less than 50 cents for every CD sold, and a few cents from streaming services, when a song is played.

 

You don't pay your doctor once and expect free care each time you visit after that do you? You don't pay for a car repair once and expect all future car repairs to be free do you? Some people are paid hourly and some people such as musicians are paid commission.

 

If your band's record makes "Gold" by selling 500,000 CDs by the time you pay for studio time, promotion, manager and other salaries etc. your band is left with $47,100. If there are four members in a band, that's $11,775 each, if your band has eight members that's $5,888 each. Most bands make an album every 2 to 3 years and most don't go gold and sell way less than 500,000 copies. And some bands actually end up owning the recording company money because they didn't sell enough copies. This would never happen if people didn't steal their music. Post internet, most bands now make most of their income by touring and selling T-shirts not album sales as it was before. Theft is destroying blues, jazz and indie artists. The kind of music I love, so people like you who feel it is OK to steal music really piss me off. Soon we may only have the million dollar superstars who produce music I hate!

 

In short, just because a small minority of musical artists make millions is no justification to steal music, most musical artists I'm sure make much less than you.

 

See: Record Sales Where Does the Money Go

 

Well said, Teresa!

[Sal1950]

Sal, theft in never justified, either of music or any other consumer product.

Teresa, It still boils down to what you believe is theft. You believe I'm stealing from artists, I believe the current IP laws are stealing from the consumer. I've already outlined the details so there really is no need for further discussion.

But I would ask you and others here squealing, have you never bought a single used CD rather than purchased new. Or accepted of ripped file from a friend.

Knowing you I would accept a answer in the negative, but for the rest I would say BS and call them hypocrites.

EBay alone must have 10s of thousands of used CD's for sale which no royalties are being paid on and I don't see anyone being hauled into court. Why?

[esldude]

Teresa, It still boils down to what you believe is theft. You believe I'm stealing from artists, I believe the current IP laws are stealing from the consumer. I've already outlined the details so there really is no need for further discussion.

But I would ask you and others here squealing, have you never bought a single used CD rather than purchased new. Or accepted of ripped file from a friend.

Knowing you I would accept a answer in the negative, but for the rest I would say BS and call them hypocrites.

EBay alone must have 10s of thousands of used CD's for sale which no royalties are being paid on and I don't see anyone being hauled into court. Why?

 

Reminds me of another side to this. Music companies want to say you don't own the CD itself only the rights to the music. What about music I purchased on LP, on cassette, and on CD. Seems like I paid for the license 3 times. Why if I want a download of the same recording do I have to pay again. Shouldn't my first license be good from then on? Didn't I pay the artist his royalties 3 times already? Don't the music companies only want to take the good and absolve themselves of any reciprocity?

[tranz]

And what about the 99.9% of other people that beat their brains out every day to scratch out a very meager living to support their familys, Some times life ain't fair to anyone.

 

 

Yes, and that includes those artists

 

 

Do you have any idea how much effort is behind earning a medical degree after paying $250K for the "chance" you might graduate.

 

 

Most artists will never earn that in their lifetime. You are lucky.

 

 

Do you have any idea how much effort is behind pulling the engine out of your car and rebuilding it, or the years it takes to learn the skills it takes to do so.

 

And so how is that different from spending years and decades honing musical talents and learning to play instruments and technology or sing?

 

Or those that spend years studying at a music conservatory and go through apprenticeships to be able to play in an orchestra somewhere?

 

 

We all deserve to be treated fairly and on an equal basis for our efforts.

 

Indeed! And that includes the artists you like to rob.

 

In the current legal scenario, personally I feel it's the consumer that is getting ripped off.

You can't "steal" something that has already been paid for.

 

Yes, because after your high paid medical job that you are now comfortably retired from it really is very painful to you to spend a dollar for a song!

 

You pay for the rights to listen to the music, you do not own the rights to the music. Understand the difference?

 

I'm retired and living quite comfortably thank you.

But other than calling me names and trying to insult me, what has your ignorant post to do with the discussion on intellectual property?

 

Must be nice. Most artists can not say the same and have to work 2-3 different jobs in additition to making music.

 

Mmmh, your posts on the other hand are far from ignorant, nor arrogant?

[kumakuma]

Just to make an example of a CD, it's made, sold, and the creators all got their cut. When I buy it, it's mine.

I'll do as I please with it. If I rip it and chose to give it to you, or resell it on ebay, or whatever, what I do with it is my business.

 

No matter how you justify things in your own mind, what you are doing amounts to theft from the artist because the person you gave it to or the person who bought it from the Ebay isn't going to buy their own copy.

[Cycleman]

You believe I'm stealing from artists, I believe the current IP laws are stealing from the consumer.

 

Sal, it must be nice to pick and choose which laws you believe in or not, and therefore which laws you choose to obey or not.

 

Just to get a fuller sense of your perspective, could you share with us what other laws you don't believe in, or believe are wrong, and therefore are laws you prefer not to obey?

 

Or is it just intellectual property laws that you find onerous?

 

Dave, who certainly knows there are laws he's kinda lax with such as making full stops at stop signs when he's driving or cycling AND there are no other vehicles around AND the sight lines are clear so all is still safe

[Teresa]

...have you never bought a single used CD rather than purchased new...EBay alone must have 10s of thousands of used CD's for sale which no royalties are being paid on and I don't see anyone being hauled into court. Why?

 

When buying a used recording the artist royalty and the right to play passes from the seller to the new purchaser. Once one sells or gives away a recording, by law and by morals one should not keep a copy of said recording for themselves, that is outright theft!

 

Let's say an artist made 50 cents on a CD you purchased and ripped to your computer then sold, traded or gave away that CD but still kept your rip of it. That means the artists 50 cent royalty is split between two people. Let's say there are more people like you who bought, ripped and then sold that same CD, you can now see how that royalty per ripped copy from just one CD could be decreased to 5 cents or less. If you sell a recording it is your duty to delete any copies you have of that recording as you do not have the legal right to play that recording as that legal right to play passes on to the new purchaser.

 

Same thing applies to books, you do not have the right to sell a book and keep a scanned copy of it.

 

...Or accepted of ripped file from a friend.

 

Never have as that is outright theft!!

[Sal1950]

Yes, and that includes those artists

Most artists will never earn that in their lifetime. You are lucky.

Yes, because after your high paid medical job that you are now comfortably retired from it really is very painful to you to spend a dollar for a song!

You pay for the rights to listen to the music, you do not own the rights to the music. Understand the difference?

Must be nice. Most artists can not say the same and have to work 2-3 different jobs in additition to making music.

Mmmh, your posts on the other hand are far from ignorant, nor arrogant?

 

You seem to have a issue with reading comprehension, don't know what gave you the idea I was a Dr? LOL

But as 17629v2 tried to insinuate at me while he was calling me a whining little girl, Maybe the artists should have chosen a better path to a lucrative living if that was the goal. Music is not a promised road to riches and many other actors, painters, etc; have unfortunately learned.