HOLO Audio Spring DAC - R2R DSD512

[barrows]

If one would like to use I2S inputs on the Holo DACs there is also the ultraDigital form Sonore, if one might prefer purchasing from a US based company perhaps...

Yes, I work with Sonore, just wanted to let folks know of an alternative option with high performance. 

[elan120]

5 minutes ago, barrows said:

If one would like to use I2S inputs on the Holo DACs there is also the ultraDigital form Sonore, if one might prefer purchasing from a US based company perhaps...

Yes, I work with Sonore, just wanted to let folks know of an alternative option with high performance. 

Does ultraDigital support DSD512?

[ted_b]

No, DSD256 is max, and only via USB out from Sonore ethernet renderers.  No direct from Windows, for example.

 

Still, would be interesting to hear that combo.

[barrows]

7 minutes ago, ted_b said:

No, DSD256 is max, and only via USB out from Sonore ethernet renderers.  No direct from Windows, for example.

 

Still, would be interesting to hear that combo.

Ted, have you had a chance to test the uDigital?  I am not sure of the actual capabilities, but I would be surprised if it could not do DSD 512 via Linux in and I2S out...

As you mention I have no experience with an ASIO driver for Windows.  I guess it is officially not supported, but again, maybe the SingXer ASIO drivers will work... 

[ted_b]

10 minutes ago, barrows said:

Ted, have you had a chance to test the uDigital?  I am not sure of the actual capabilities, but I would be surprised if it could not do DSD 512 via Linux in and I2S out...

As you mention I have no experience with an ASIO driver for Windows.  I guess it is officially not supported, but again, maybe the SingXer ASIO drivers will work... 

Barrows, no I have not.  And yes, might work. 

[barrows]

43 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Barrows, no I have not.  And yes, might work. 

OK, thanks for that info.  I am just not sure

[Miska]

9 hours ago, scan80269 said:

Last year I identified the two crystals in the Spring as belonging to the Harmony Electronics HSX531S series.

 

I have no idea what phase noise level these crystals have, whether Holo Audio uses sorted devices from the supplier, or how well designed the two crystal oscillator circuits are in the Spring.  Alex @UpTone thinks these crystals are rather mediocre and I tend to agree.  If unsorted Crystek CCHD-575 oscillators have lower phase noise than these crystals with their circuits in the Spring, then it can explain why the sound is better with the SU-1 driving the Spring over I2S vs. USB feeding directly into Spring.

 

I do agree there are many factors besides crystal/oscillator performance that can affect the sound.

 

Well, good oscillators don't really matter if the performance gets spoiled within 10 mm of PCB trace. I'd like to know how much of the performance gets worsened for example by the LVDS circuitry needed to transfer the clock over HDMI cable. When it seems to be very hard to get good real world jitter performance from a DAC even when oscillator sits bare mm's away from the converter. Sending it over a cable between two boxes is entirely different matter. For that low phase noise of oscillator to materialize at the analog output of a DAC, lot of things need to happen in extremely well controlled environment.

 

I don't know why some people prefer SU-1, but just plain assuming it is because of one fancy component XXX used inside doesn't really hold water without further objective inspection. I don't mind people liking SU-1, or something else. From my measurements I know that the real world jitter performance with the clocks inside Spring is very good indeed. That's why I don't outright accept claims that with external clocks it would get better.

 

So please stop saying that there would be anything wrong with the clocks inside Spring, because there isn't.

 

P.S. Most of the jitter problems are not because of oscillators phase noise, but because of interference creeping into the clock lines before it reaches the actual conversion point. So additional non-random noise.

[AudioBang]

If anyone is evaluating the Denafrips Terminator DAC via USB connection, I found this on the Vinshine Audio website:

"STATE of ART USB INTERFACE
Customized  AMANERO USB Interface with I2S output to DA module. The best USB interface available in the market now."

Fake news or new design [galvanic isolation] not generally available yet?

 

[ted_b]

Audiobang, if you are so enamored with the marketing for the Amanero, have at it.  The result will be a chipset that does the same or less than the XMOS (especially currently in Linux) but I guess you'll get that to-do off your list.  You'll also have a driver that is not supported by Holo.

[AudioBang]

UnderstoodTed. I have already aquiesed to the assertion that the specific module I pointed out would be going backwards.

[Miska]

4 hours ago, ted_b said:

Audiobang, if you are so enamored with the marketing for the Amanero, have at it.  The result will be a chipset that does the same or less than the XMOS (especially currently in Linux) but I guess you'll get that to-do off your list.  You'll also have a driver that is not supported by Holo.

 

Amanero does work on Linux now, up to DSD512 with their latest firmware. Driver support is already included in latest Linux kernels.

 

[AudioBang]

Beaten to death for now concerning the Holo...

I appreciate everyone's contributions.  

 

[gdpr]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Amanero does work on Linux now, up to DSD512 with their latest firmware. Driver support is already included in latest Linux kernels.

 

Can you please reveal the verstond number of Amanero latest driver, supporting DSD512?

This will help me to contact T+A to inquire about a firmware upgrade for the DSD 8 dac.

[Miska]

10 minutes ago, ddetaey said:

Can you please reveal the verstond number of Amanero latest driver, supporting DSD512?

This will help me to contact T+A to inquire about a firmware upgrade for the DSD 8 dac.

 

What driver are you talking about? Driver is part of Linux kernel, 4.14 long term support kernel is good starting point.

 

Latest firmware can be found from the Amanero flasher tool...

[bibo01]

12 minutes ago, ddetaey said:

Can you please reveal the verstond number of Amanero latest driver, supporting DSD512?

This will help me to contact T+A to inquire about a firmware upgrade for the DSD 8 dac.

Firmware is 2002be, however there are still some issue with DSD512 (and 256), which Amanero was trying to solve. So I am not sure T&A is willing to implement it yet.

[volpone]

1 minute ago, bibo01 said:

Firmware is 2002be, however there are still some issue with DSD512 (and 256), which Amanero was trying to solve. So I am not sure T&A is willing to implement it yet.

 

Yes,  seems still some glitches according to https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd/issues/12

However, i'm interested in @miska opinion. Perhaps DAC dependent ?

 

@bibo01Any new from Amanero ? ( Win asio driver etc ...) ?

[bibo01]

2 minutes ago, volpone said:

@bibo01Any new from Amanero ? ( Win asio driver etc ...) ?

I tried to call Amanero yesterday, but no reply. I will try again soon...

[ted_b]

I am not sure what point Jussi was making; I could have sworn he said not to change out the Holo USB chipset either. 

 

BTW, could we move the "Amanero firmware/does it work yet on 512" stuff to a different thread.  It is irrelevant to this Holo thread.  Thanks.

[WenYee]

My new dac:

[ted_b]

11 hours ago, WenYee said:

My new dac:

Nice.  Talk about it over on the Cyan thread.  They need some user feedback.

[mav52]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

Nice.  Talk about it over on the Cyan thread.  They need some user feedback.

Agreed, it would be nice to keep the Holo products separate, Cyan thread below

 

 

[WenYee]

13 hours ago, ted_b said:

Nice.  Talk about it over on the Cyan thread.  They need some user feedback.

I use HQplayer and roon, rock64 for NAA, IFI ipower,  Dop dsd256 to Cyan.

I believe it is the best way to utilize Cyan.

[WenYee]

sorry, just notice that your comment, i will stop commenting about cyan and open a new thread for it

 

 

 

[MINORISUKE]

On 2018/3/13 at 5:48 PM, barrows said:

....

I guess it is officially not supported, but again, maybe the SingXer ASIO drivers will work... 

Thesycon does not allow the distribution of the original driver through OEM.  I confirmed this with them.
Sonore must purchase a licence from Thesycon with its own VID/PID.
When a person on behalf of Sonore suggests the use of Singxer driver for Windows which is licensed only to Singxer products, it might cause a problem with Thesycon.

[jkelly]

Congrats to HoloAudio on the excellent Stereophile review!

 

Jeff