HOLO Audio Spring DAC - R2R DSD512

[guymrob]

20 hours ago, Bimmer100 said:

 

We are now accepting orders for the HoloAudio CYAN. I've got the go ahead that they are not officially ready to ship. I can't wait to get my own for my desktop, however my wife will likely take mine once it arrives! it's a compact all in one solution that takes a small footprint on a desk. Discrete R2R with a very capable balanced Headphone Amp!  

 

However, for those who want the DSD module version... please note that it is ONLY a dac and does not have the headphone amplifier enabled... you may ask why???

Here is important note of information, the DSD signal is essentially cannot be digitally processed. So when a studio mixes the signals, it actually transforms/converts to PCM then do digital mix then transformed back to DSD. That's why DSD is accused in the audio industrial and potentially abandoned or less popular. Anyway, there are SACD available in market and it has a much higher bitrate than CD. So SACD is better resource still. Also, when you see a DSD dac chip that claims to be able to do digital volume control, then it must be transformed to PCM internally within the dac chip. Like ESS and AKM etc.. all their chips can support digital volume control in DSD. They actually transformed to PCM internally.

 

well DSD cannot have volume control...DSD is always @ 100% when in native... the amp would be at 100% volume all the time and will blow your ear drums or headphones IF we were to have an amp hooked up to the amp and volume control knob on the chassis..... so the headphone amp is not able to function. The Cyan with the discrete r2r DSD dac module is simply a pure discrete native DSD R2R Dac!!! no headphone amp... This version will be slightly less cost (approx 100usd cheaper) since we will end up not including the components for the headamp inside the chassis...yet the volume knob will be just decoration and no volume control function. For those who understand how DSD works, this doesn't need to be explained to why we have done this. Basically if you have volume control on DSD than the signal must be converted to PCM.  Our DSD dac module is pure native DSD and no conversion is done. Our discrete R2R resistor network is processing pure native DSD with NO conversion to PCM!   This DSD module version of the CYAN will be ideal for those who are DSD enthusiasts and want something quite special for a much more affordable price with excellent pure native DSD512.  The cyan will have the XMOS XU208 USB module as well.  Also a nice attractive remote control available  

Another interesting side note. The Cyan dac module is 28bit and due to the fact it has a digital volume control and the need for more bits will deliver optimal sound quality with zero compromise. The Cyan will surely impress everyone and I think it may be darn near impossibru to find a better dac/amp for the price which is targeted to be estimated in the range of 1000usd for PCM version and 100usd less for DSD version (no headamp) (final pricing will be announced begining of December/ This week!)

Anyhow, we expect to sell the PCM version of the Cyan as about 80% of sales since it will allow the quite capable balanced headamp to pair beautifully with the Discrete PCM R2R Dac module. And it will include an SRC(sample rate converter) that allows for DSD to play, however cannot compare to the quality of the Discrete R2R DSD dac module... It may be hard for some to choose which version they want to order... just get both if you can't decide!

 

 Full specifications of the Cyan will be released shortly. PLEASE NOTE: The Cyan does NOT have linear compensation like the Spring dac... Cyan Dac module is 28bit discrete R2R with digital volume control and NOS! beautiful analog like sound that flows effortlessly and with no fatigue.  Analog performance is approximately around 22bit and this is much higher than average NOS or OS R2R dacs on the market. This is a key feature for the Spring dac and one of the many reasons the Spring dac stands out on its own and capable of stellar sound quality. HOWEVER, we have worked very hard on the Cyan dac module and once we release specs you'll likely be quite surprised with its specifications and measurements of the dac and amplifier.  Personally i'm getting one of these for my wife and another one for my other office. This is a very compact neat and tidy solution for incredible value and sound quality all in one small chassis that won't take up much desktop space.  I'm getting a PCM version myself.  We should have a PCM Cyan and DSD Cyan available in the near future for reviewers and auditions.  Please contact us via our webisite if you are interested to preorder or discuss any details and questions. I've officially received an email from Jeff this morning saying they are now ready to ship!  

 

As of now there are no plans for any KTE versions of the Cyan. This is a dac/amp designed for moderate budget audio enthusiasts who are not willing to compromise on sound quality.. Both dac's are NOS and deliver very natural analog like sound with excellent detail and soundstage. But to clear up the most common question.... "How does this compare with the Spring dac?"   well.... the Spring dac is still on another level considering the Spring dac has Linear compensation and the Discrete dac module also has dedicated DSD r2r ladder dacs and dedicated PCM r2r ladder dacs. However it will be very hard to find another product that compares with the Cyan @ it's current entry price point!  The DSD version will be slightly less like i've stated and all official pricing will be posted on the website this week.

 

I'm sorry for the long reply. I've not had any time to reply to many of those who have asked me about the HoloAudio Cyan Dac/Amp.  We are EXTREMELY excited to release this product to everyone and are very proud of how it's turned out. We think everyone will see this as a real success.  This may be the first time anyone has been able to release a discrete NOS R2R dac with integrated powerful balanced headamp 

 

Thoughts?

 

There is another way to use volume control in the headphones amp, called Analog Digital Control or ADC. There are many available chips that does that and can be better than those digital volume built-in inside DAC.

 

http://www.ti.com/product/PGA2310

 

Resistors relay switching analogue volume control (digitally controlled) is used in high-end pre-amp instead of rotary potentiometer.

 

http://www.eijndhoven.net/jos/switchr/index.html

 

so I don't see why this is not implement in both versions of Cyan (DSD and PCM) but instead of going for digital volume control?

 

[pkane2001]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

So far I've been using only DSD side of the Spring (apart from measuring the PCM side too). While I bet there are many people who have been doing pretty much the opposite.

 

I've played with switching Spring to PCM mode for a while, and found that I still prefer everything upsampled to DSD512, so that's how I'm using it. NOS mode with HQPlayer converting/upsampling everything to DSD512 and acting as the volume control. No preamp for headphones or speakers. 

 

I'm also curious to see your measurements of Spring Holo, PCM and DSD if you can share them.

 

[lmitche]

20 hours ago, Bimmer100 said:

 

We are now accepting orders for the HoloAudio CYAN. I've got the go ahead that they are not officially ready to ship. I can't wait to get my own for my desktop, however my wife will likely take mine once it arrives! it's a compact all in one solution that takes a small footprint on a desk. Discrete R2R with a very capable balanced Headphone Amp!  

 

However, for those who want the DSD module version... please note that it is ONLY a dac and does not have the headphone amplifier enabled... you may ask why???

Here is important note of information, the DSD signal is essentially cannot be digitally processed. So when a studio mixes the signals, it actually transforms/converts to PCM then do digital mix then transformed back to DSD. That's why DSD is accused in the audio industrial and potentially abandoned or less popular. Anyway, there are SACD available in market and it has a much higher bitrate than CD. So SACD is better resource still. Also, when you see a DSD dac chip that claims to be able to do digital volume control, then it must be transformed to PCM internally within the dac chip. Like ESS and AKM etc.. all their chips can support digital volume control in DSD. They actually transformed to PCM internally.

 

well DSD cannot have volume control...DSD is always @ 100% when in native... the amp would be at 100% volume all the time and will blow your ear drums or headphones IF we were to have an amp hooked up to the amp and volume control knob on the chassis..... so the headphone amp is not able to function. The Cyan with the discrete r2r DSD dac module is simply a pure discrete native DSD R2R Dac!!! no headphone amp... This version will be slightly less cost (approx 100usd cheaper) since we will end up not including the components for the headamp inside the chassis...yet the volume knob will be just decoration and no volume control function. For those who understand how DSD works, this doesn't need to be explained to why we have done this. Basically if you have volume control on DSD than the signal must be converted to PCM.  Our DSD dac module is pure native DSD and no conversion is done. Our discrete R2R resistor network is processing pure native DSD with NO conversion to PCM!   This DSD module version of the CYAN will be ideal for those who are DSD enthusiasts and want something quite special for a much more affordable price with excellent pure native DSD512.  The cyan will have the XMOS XU208 USB module as well.  Also a nice attractive remote control available  

Another interesting side note. The Cyan dac module is 28bit and due to the fact it has a digital volume control and the need for more bits will deliver optimal sound quality with zero compromise. The Cyan will surely impress everyone and I think it may be darn near impossibru to find a better dac/amp for the price which is targeted to be estimated in the range of 1000usd for PCM version and 100usd less for DSD version (no headamp) (final pricing will be announced begining of December/ This week!)

Anyhow, we expect to sell the PCM version of the Cyan as about 80% of sales since it will allow the quite capable balanced headamp to pair beautifully with the Discrete PCM R2R Dac module. And it will include an SRC(sample rate converter) that allows for DSD to play, however cannot compare to the quality of the Discrete R2R DSD dac module... It may be hard for some to choose which version they want to order... just get both if you can't decide!

 

 Full specifications of the Cyan will be released shortly. PLEASE NOTE: The Cyan does NOT have linear compensation like the Spring dac... Cyan Dac module is 28bit discrete R2R with digital volume control and NOS! beautiful analog like sound that flows effortlessly and with no fatigue.  Analog performance is approximately around 22bit and this is much higher than average NOS or OS R2R dacs on the market. This is a key feature for the Spring dac and one of the many reasons the Spring dac stands out on its own and capable of stellar sound quality. HOWEVER, we have worked very hard on the Cyan dac module and once we release specs you'll likely be quite surprised with its specifications and measurements of the dac and amplifier.  Personally i'm getting one of these for my wife and another one for my other office. This is a very compact neat and tidy solution for incredible value and sound quality all in one small chassis that won't take up much desktop space.  I'm getting a PCM version myself.  We should have a PCM Cyan and DSD Cyan available in the near future for reviewers and auditions.  Please contact us via our webisite if you are interested to preorder or discuss any details and questions. I've officially received an email from Jeff this morning saying they are now ready to ship!  

 

As of now there are no plans for any KTE versions of the Cyan. This is a dac/amp designed for moderate budget audio enthusiasts who are not willing to compromise on sound quality.. Both dac's are NOS and deliver very natural analog like sound with excellent detail and soundstage. But to clear up the most common question.... "How does this compare with the Spring dac?"   well.... the Spring dac is still on another level considering the Spring dac has Linear compensation and the Discrete dac module also has dedicated DSD r2r ladder dacs and dedicated PCM r2r ladder dacs. However it will be very hard to find another product that compares with the Cyan @ it's current entry price point!  The DSD version will be slightly less like i've stated and all official pricing will be posted on the website this week.

 

I'm sorry for the long reply. I've not had any time to reply to many of those who have asked me about the HoloAudio Cyan Dac/Amp.  We are EXTREMELY excited to release this product to everyone and are very proud of how it's turned out. We think everyone will see this as a real success.  This may be the first time anyone has been able to release a discrete NOS R2R dac with integrated powerful balanced headamp 

 

Thoughts?

I'm having a hard time getting my head around the concept of a ladder DAC and DSD. I understand how a resistor ladder works with PCM.  I also understand how a shift register can be used in a discrete DSD DAC.  But how does a resistor ladder work with DSD?  What am I missing? Is it just that the signal increments or decrements at the top of the ladder and is pushed down the ladder at each cycle?

 

Thanks, Larry

[R1200CL]

@Bimmer100

What is the power consuption on the DSD version ?

 

What DC valtage is needed, if I should like to use my own DC, and what is min ampere requirement  ?

 

Only in black ? No silver version ? (Or a DC version)

 

Can you explain difference between Spring vs Cyan when we only talk DSD ?

 

Is the Cyan a true balanced DAC ?

 

[GUTB]

3 hours ago, lmitche said:

I'm having a hard time getting my head around the concept of a ladder DAC and DSD. I understand how a resistor ladder works with PCM.  I also understand how a shift register can be used in a discrete DSD DAC.  But how does a resistor ladder work with DSD?  What am I missing? Is it just that the signal increments or decrements at the top of the ladder and is pushed down the ladder at each cycle?

 

Thanks, Larry

 

Lol last year I basically called them liars because I said there's no way a DSD would work in a R2R arrangement and so they must be doing SRC somewhere...but they were adamant that wasn't the case. But I still have no idea how it works. 

[paulinus]

22 hours ago, semente said:

Can you get a unit in Europe for that price including customs tax?

You could try to contact Wildism Audio (www.wildismaudio.com). They have it for 7300hk dollars.

I ordered my Holo Spring from them last year. Shipment time was about 3 weeks (low prio post service). 

But you need to take care about customs yourself.

[Miska]

2 hours ago, GUTB said:

Lol last year I basically called them liars because I said there's no way a DSD would work in a R2R arrangement and so they must be doing SRC somewhere...but they were adamant that wasn't the case. But I still have no idea how it works. 

 

I think it is pretty similar to my DSC1, at least the measurements seem similar. It is not the same ladder for both PCM and DSD. There are two separate ones. From the board pictures posted above (here), I'm pretty sure the left DAC board is DSD version and right one is PCM version.

 

[Miska]

23 hours ago, semente said:

Can you get a unit in Europe for that price including customs tax?

 

In Europe, MagnaHifi is selling Holo Audio:

https://www.magnahifi.com/en/webshop/category/holo-audio

 

[GUTB]

14 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

I think it is pretty similar to my DSC1, at least the measurements seem similar. It is not the same ladder for both PCM and DSD. There are two separate ones. From the board pictures posted above (here), I'm pretty sure the left DAC board is DSD version and right one is PCM version.

 

 

I remember you briefly explained how it could be done...I just get hung up on what my layman's understanding of resistor ladders work (voltage levels are compared and passed down to the next rung -- how do you do this when there isn't more more than 1 voltage level to compare against?)

[semente]

1 hour ago, paulinus said:

You could try to contact Wildism Audio (www.wildismaudio.com). They have it for 7300hk dollars.

I ordered my Holo Spring from them last year. Shipment time was about 3 weeks (low prio post service). 

But you need to take care about customs yourself.

 

Thanks but I would rather not go through the customs hassle.

[semente]

30 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

In Europe, MagnaHifi is selling Holo Audio:

https://www.magnahifi.com/en/webshop/category/holo-audio

 

 

Thanks.

Let's see how much they will be asking for the Cyan.

[semente]

On 14/11/2017 at 7:00 PM, chsas75 said:

Audiophonics sales Holo Spring with their logo with USB on XMOS 208 and halvanic isolation.

 

 

 

ARMATURE ASTERION

 

What is this plate producer good way to upgrade the usb in.

 

I wonder who's rebadging and who's the designer, Holo or Armature. This is from the latter's website:

 

Parce que la simplicité est le plus court chemin vers l’émotion, Armature Audio apporte aujourd’hui une réponse constructive, limpide, simple dans un monde toujours plus complexe.

Armature Audio né de 10 ans d’expertise dans l’univers de l’électronique propose le meilleur de la Haute Fidélité traditionnelle et des dernières innovations numériques démocratisant les technologies hier réservé au cercle très fermé de la Hifi d’exception.

 

http://armature.audio/asterion-dac-24bit-384khz-i2s-r2r-dsd/

[semente]

I've found the answer at Qobuz:

 

Armature Audio n'est autre que la nouvelle marque que le distributeur Audiophonics a choisie pour commercialiser diverses réalisations sélectionnées parmi le haut de gamme proposé par ses partenaires et fournisseurs chinois.

 

http://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/info/hi-fi/bancs-d-essai/armature-oberon-un-dac-avec179307

[barrows]

@Bimmer100, A number of months back you suggested that there would be DIY conversion modules available from Holo, is this still planned, and is there any progress in this area?  I am mostly interested in DSD conversion modules.

[Bimmer100]

47 minutes ago, barrows said:

@Bimmer100, A number of months back you suggested that there would be DIY conversion modules available from Holo, is this still planned, and is there any progress in this area?  I am mostly interested in DSD conversion modules.

When you say DSD conversion modules? What do you mean by this? Converting some particular product to use our Dac module? 

 

We talked about having the module that is being used in the Cyan as a diy product. Which will obviously require knowledge to complete a Dac project or Dac/amp project. 

 

I will confirm with Jeff again, but believe you can change the Cyan module from pcm to dsd, but not fully sure since there may be some other changes needed. I will look into this to see if they will be available to swap.

 

[barrows]

16 hours ago, Bimmer100 said:

We talked about having the module that is being used in the Cyan as a diy product. Which will obviously require knowledge to complete a Dac project or Dac/amp project. 

Yes, this is what I was referring to.  I am aware of what DIY for this might take.

 

Thanks!

[eternaldrake]

Please forgive my ignorance, but what are the two inputs on the front end of the device? 4-pin balanced XLR and 1/4 single-ended? Or does the amp not support any single-ended output?

[Bimmer100]

1 hour ago, eternaldrake said:

Please forgive my ignorance, but what are the two inputs on the front end of the device? 4-pin balanced XLR and 1/4 single-ended? Or does the amp not support any single-ended output?

The two “outputs” on the front of the Dac are 4pin XLR balanced and 1/4” Single ended just like you said. 

[jcn3]

1 hour ago, eternaldrake said:

Please forgive my ignorance, but what are the two inputs on the front end of the device? 4-pin balanced XLR and 1/4 single-ended? Or does the amp not support any single-ended output?

 

they are outputs for headphones -- only available on the pcm version.

[R1200CL]

@Bimmer100

Can you explain difference between Spring vs Cyan when we only talk DSD ?

 

It’s the same ladder board, or ? And I would assume more or less same ps. 

So if I only like to use DSD, with a preamp, what will the Spring offer me that the Cyan does not have ?

 

Is that linear compensation a component used for DSD ? 

28 bit vs 24 bit I suppose, but that 4 bits extra is only related to the digital volume control ?

(Which I won’t use, as I have a very good pre). 

 

I hope you find time to answer. 

[R1200CL]

3 hours ago, jcn3 said:

 

they are outputs for headphones -- only available on the pcm version.

 

I hope you’re totally wrong, as my pre has XLR in on the analog input. And I expect the Cyan to be true balanced, since this option is offered. 

 

It’s a DAC, so it must have analog out.  It no volume control in the analog domain. 

I’m hope I’m right, or have I missed the whole point with what the purpose of a DAC is ?

[R1200CL]

On 28.11.2017 at 6:52 PM, Bimmer100 said:

How does this compare with the Spring dac?"   well.... the Spring dac is still on another level considering the Spring dac has Linear compensation and the Discrete dac module also has dedicated DSD r2r ladder dacs and dedicated PCM r2r ladder dacs. However it will be very hard to find another product that compares with the Cyan @ it's current entry price point!

 

Just to ask once again. Do I get a DSD r2r ladder DAC when ordering the DSD version or not ?

I have a hard problem understanding the difference between Spring and Cyan if you only need one of the features of the Spring. And you don’t need a volume control. 

 

And I don’t know if that Linear compensation module is only used for PCM or both PCM and DSD ?

I do understand it’s only available in the Spring. 

[R1200CL]

31 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

I hope you’re totally wrong, as my pre has XLR in on the analog input. And I expect the Cyan to be true balanced, since this option is offered. 

 

It’s a DAC, so it must have analog out.  It no volume control in the analog domain. 

I’m hope I’m right, or have I missed the whole point with what the purpose of a DAC is ?

Sorry. I now see you asked ably the front XLR. To late to delete the post. 

[franz159]

31 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

I hope you’re totally wrong, as my pre has XLR in on the analog input. And I expect the Cyan to be true balanced, since this option is offered. 

 

It’s a DAC, so it must have analog out.  It no volume control in the analog domain. 

I’m hope I’m right, or have I missed the whole point with what the purpose of a DAC is ?

 

The analog outputs (single ended and balanced) are on the back of the unit, as clearly visible in the picture posted by Bimmer 100.

 

On the front of the unit you have the 4pin XLR balanced and 1/4” Single ended output for headphones.

 

Isn't that where you would expect all those outputs to be positioned?

 

[R1200CL]

On 29.11.2017 at 10:27 AM, Bimmer100 said:

The Cyan will have the SRC or Sample Rate Convertor to allow for other formats as well as oversampling options.

 

Is the SCR used for both versions ?

Other formats ??? It’ Either PCM input or DSD input. What other formats?

Oversampling options ??? What options that isn’t offered by HQPlayer of Roon in DSD mode. I don’t get it. 

 

The Spring does not have SCR, so why the Cyan. This is confusing. 

 

Can anyone explain to me ?