HOLO Audio Spring DAC - R2R DSD512

[Miska]

6 minutes ago, rayl1234 said:

I agree with everything but the very last sentence. Once you have aliasing due to ADC if a signal that is not sufficiently bandwidth limited (bec as stated, no filter can be 96dB down in 2kHz for 44.1 or in 4kHz for 48), that aliasing loss is irrecoverable*.

 

No digital filter after the aliased pcm is output by the ADC can correct that. We can thank Nyquist for demonstrating this to us well before Red Book was invented. 

 

If we are saying we ADC at a higher sampling rate and want to low pass in digital, then yes, digital filters can be steeper...

 

All even remotely modern ADCs are oversampling. So you have inverse of modern DAC. First analog anti-alias filtering, then delta-sigma ADC running typically at 5.6/6.1 MHz sampling rate, followed by digital decimation filter to produce PCM output at rate of your choice.

 

To properly reconstruct this, the process is inverse at the DAC side. First interpolating digital filter, followed by delta-sigma DAC, followed by analog reconstruction filter.

 

With this process, both the ADC and DAC are sufficiently bandwidth limited and there's no aliasing/images. If the intermediate rate is 44.1/48 kHz, this won't practically happen without use of digital filters.

 

[chrille]

11 hours ago, ted_b said:

Agree, and its nice to find dacs that have those excellent second stages....but we are getting far afield from the question asked about NOS in the Holo.  Pkane2001 specifically asked about why NOS in the Holo.  Jussi has already said that the PCM filters aren't bad, but DSD stuff is average at best (bias notwithstanding ).  

 

Pkane2001, I think software upsampling vs hardware upsampling has been discussed ad nauseum.   I find it to be the same for a lot of "integrated vs separates" logic; the "separates" (in this case software upsampling using powerful cpus) are built for the task, the "integrateds" have to be jack of all trades, given a price point.  In some cases, the integrateds have no bypass or coexist capability..in the case of dacs like Holo they do.   Oversimplified, sorry.

Hello Ted I have not  paid much attention to that "ad nauseum" discussion until I heard Rob Watt's BLU2/DAVE combo with an old DGG rbcd.

But doing so definitely  re-awakened my interest in the subject of upsampling.

Have you or anyone else here  auditioned it and compared it to for example HQ player?

If so I would be interested in hearing your take on these two similar/different? approaches to better digital SQ

Cheers Chrille.

[ted_b]

I've not, but would love to.  I will seek out Rob at the next show.

[barrows]

As this is the Holo DAC thread, and computer based oversampling is definitely how to best utilize the Holo DAC in NOS mode, I feel that discussion of how to oversample are appropriate here, in regards to the Holo DAC(s).  So Holo users, what are you favorite ways of oversampling for the Holo DAC?  HQPlayer, Audirvana+, etc, and do you prefer to use the Holo DSD engine and convert everything to DSD, or do you like high rate PCM oversampling?

I think some folks have been insisting that DSD 512 oversampling is the "best", @Miska, can you confirm through measurements that the Holo does have less artifacts at DSD 512, or is the (DAC conversion) filter stage still good with lower DSD rates (128, 256)?

[Bimmer100]

 

We are now accepting orders for the HoloAudio CYAN. I've got the go ahead that they are not officially ready to ship. I can't wait to get my own for my desktop, however my wife will likely take mine once it arrives! it's a compact all in one solution that takes a small footprint on a desk. Discrete R2R with a very capable balanced Headphone Amp!  

 

However, for those who want the DSD module version... please note that it is ONLY a dac and does not have the headphone amplifier enabled... you may ask why???

Here is important note of information, the DSD signal is essentially cannot be digitally processed. So when a studio mixes the signals, it actually transforms/converts to PCM then do digital mix then transformed back to DSD. That's why DSD is accused in the audio industrial and potentially abandoned or less popular. Anyway, there are SACD available in market and it has a much higher bitrate than CD. So SACD is better resource still. Also, when you see a DSD dac chip that claims to be able to do digital volume control, then it must be transformed to PCM internally within the dac chip. Like ESS and AKM etc.. all their chips can support digital volume control in DSD. They actually transformed to PCM internally.

 

well DSD cannot have volume control...DSD is always @ 100% when in native... the amp would be at 100% volume all the time and will blow your ear drums or headphones IF we were to have an amp hooked up to the amp and volume control knob on the chassis..... so the headphone amp is not able to function. The Cyan with the discrete r2r DSD dac module is simply a pure discrete native DSD R2R Dac!!! no headphone amp... This version will be slightly less cost (approx 100usd cheaper) since we will end up not including the components for the headamp inside the chassis...yet the volume knob will be just decoration and no volume control function. For those who understand how DSD works, this doesn't need to be explained to why we have done this. Basically if you have volume control on DSD than the signal must be converted to PCM.  Our DSD dac module is pure native DSD and no conversion is done. Our discrete R2R resistor network is processing pure native DSD with NO conversion to PCM!   This DSD module version of the CYAN will be ideal for those who are DSD enthusiasts and want something quite special for a much more affordable price with excellent pure native DSD512.  The cyan will have the XMOS XU208 USB module as well.  Also a nice attractive remote control available  

Another interesting side note. The Cyan dac module is 28bit and due to the fact it has a digital volume control and the need for more bits will deliver optimal sound quality with zero compromise. The Cyan will surely impress everyone and I think it may be darn near impossibru to find a better dac/amp for the price which is targeted to be estimated in the range of 1000usd for PCM version and 100usd less for DSD version (no headamp) (final pricing will be announced begining of December/ This week!)

Anyhow, we expect to sell the PCM version of the Cyan as about 80% of sales since it will allow the quite capable balanced headamp to pair beautifully with the Discrete PCM R2R Dac module. And it will include an SRC(sample rate converter) that allows for DSD to play, however cannot compare to the quality of the Discrete R2R DSD dac module... It may be hard for some to choose which version they want to order... just get both if you can't decide!

 

 Full specifications of the Cyan will be released shortly. PLEASE NOTE: The Cyan does NOT have linear compensation like the Spring dac... Cyan Dac module is 28bit discrete R2R with digital volume control and NOS! beautiful analog like sound that flows effortlessly and with no fatigue.  Analog performance is approximately around 22bit and this is much higher than average NOS or OS R2R dacs on the market. This is a key feature for the Spring dac and one of the many reasons the Spring dac stands out on its own and capable of stellar sound quality. HOWEVER, we have worked very hard on the Cyan dac module and once we release specs you'll likely be quite surprised with its specifications and measurements of the dac and amplifier.  Personally i'm getting one of these for my wife and another one for my other office. This is a very compact neat and tidy solution for incredible value and sound quality all in one small chassis that won't take up much desktop space.  I'm getting a PCM version myself.  We should have a PCM Cyan and DSD Cyan available in the near future for reviewers and auditions.  Please contact us via our webisite if you are interested to preorder or discuss any details and questions. I've officially received an email from Jeff this morning saying they are now ready to ship!  

 

As of now there are no plans for any KTE versions of the Cyan. This is a dac/amp designed for moderate budget audio enthusiasts who are not willing to compromise on sound quality.. Both dac's are NOS and deliver very natural analog like sound with excellent detail and soundstage. But to clear up the most common question.... "How does this compare with the Spring dac?"   well.... the Spring dac is still on another level considering the Spring dac has Linear compensation and the Discrete dac module also has dedicated DSD r2r ladder dacs and dedicated PCM r2r ladder dacs. However it will be very hard to find another product that compares with the Cyan @ it's current entry price point!  The DSD version will be slightly less like i've stated and all official pricing will be posted on the website this week.

 

I'm sorry for the long reply. I've not had any time to reply to many of those who have asked me about the HoloAudio Cyan Dac/Amp.  We are EXTREMELY excited to release this product to everyone and are very proud of how it's turned out. We think everyone will see this as a real success.  This may be the first time anyone has been able to release a discrete NOS R2R dac with integrated powerful balanced headamp 

 

Thoughts?

[tg123]

Sounds good!  I am interested in pre-ordering.

[franz159]

47 minutes ago, Bimmer100 said:

 

We are now accepting orders for the HoloAudio CYAN. I've got the go ahead that they are not officially ready to ship. I can't wait to get my own for my desktop, however my wife will likely take mine once it arrives! it's a compact all in one solution that takes a small footprint on a desk. Discrete R2R with a very capable balanced Headphone Amp!  

 

However, for those who want the DSD module version... please note that it is ONLY a dac and does not have the headphone amplifier enabled... you may ask why???

Here is important note of information, the DSD signal is essentially cannot be digitally processed. So when a studio mixes the signals, it actually transforms/converts to PCM then do digital mix then transformed back to DSD. That's why DSD is accused in the audio industrial and potentially abandoned or less popular. Anyway, there are SACD available in market and it has a much higher bitrate than CD. So SACD is better resource still. Also, when you see a DSD dac chip that claims to be able to do digital volume control, then it must be transformed to PCM internally within the dac chip. Like ESS and AKM etc.. all their chips can support digital volume control in DSD. They actually transformed to PCM internally.

 

well DSD cannot have volume control...DSD is always @ 100% when in native... the amp would be at 100% volume all the time and will blow your ear drums or headphones IF we were to have an amp hooked up to the amp and volume control knob on the chassis..... so the headphone amp is not able to function. The Cyan with the discrete r2r DSD dac module is simply a pure discrete native DSD R2R Dac!!! no headphone amp... This version will be slightly less cost (approx 100usd cheaper) since we will end up not including the components for the headamp inside the chassis...yet the volume knob will be just decoration and no volume control function. For those who understand how DSD works, this doesn't need to be explained to why we have done this. Basically if you have volume control on DSD than the signal must be converted to PCM.  Our DSD dac module is pure native DSD and no conversion is done. Our discrete R2R resistor network is processing pure native DSD with NO conversion to PCM!   This DSD module version of the CYAN will be ideal for those who are DSD enthusiasts and want something quite special for a much more affordable price with excellent pure native DSD512.  The cyan will have the XMOS XU208 USB module as well.  Also a nice attractive remote control available  

Another interesting side note. The Cyan dac module is 28bit and due to the fact it has a digital volume control and the need for more bits will deliver optimal sound quality with zero compromise. The Cyan will surely impress everyone and I think it may be darn near impossibru to find a better dac/amp for the price which is targeted to be estimated in the range of 1000usd for PCM version and 100usd less for DSD version (no headamp) (final pricing will be announced begining of December/ This week!)

Anyhow, we expect to sell the PCM version of the Cyan as about 80% of sales since it will allow the quite capable balanced headamp to pair beautifully with the Discrete PCM R2R Dac module. And it will include an SRC(sample rate converter) that allows for DSD to play, however cannot compare to the quality of the Discrete R2R DSD dac module... It may be hard for some to choose which version they want to order... just get both if you can't decide!

 

 Full specifications of the Cyan will be released shortly. PLEASE NOTE: The Cyan does NOT have linear compensation like the Spring dac... Cyan Dac module is 28bit discrete R2R with digital volume control and NOS! beautiful analog like sound that flows effortlessly and with no fatigue.  Analog performance is approximately around 22bit and this is much higher than average NOS or OS R2R dacs on the market. This is a key feature for the Spring dac and one of the many reasons the Spring dac stands out on its own and capable of stellar sound quality. HOWEVER, we have worked very hard on the Cyan dac module and once we release specs you'll likely be quite surprised with its specifications and measurements of the dac and amplifier.  Personally i'm getting one of these for my wife and another one for my other office. This is a very compact neat and tidy solution for incredible value and sound quality all in one small chassis that won't take up much desktop space.  I'm getting a PCM version myself.  We should have a PCM Cyan and DSD Cyan available in the near future for reviewers and auditions.  Please contact us via our webisite if you are interested to preorder or discuss any details and questions. I've officially received an email from Jeff this morning saying they are now ready to ship!  

 

As of now there are no plans for any KTE versions of the Cyan. This is a dac/amp designed for moderate budget audio enthusiasts who are not willing to compromise on sound quality.. Both dac's are NOS and deliver very natural analog like sound with excellent detail and soundstage. But to clear up the most common question.... "How does this compare with the Spring dac?"   well.... the Spring dac is still on another level considering the Spring dac has Linear compensation and the Discrete dac module also has dedicated DSD r2r ladder dacs and dedicated PCM r2r ladder dacs. However it will be very hard to find another product that compares with the Cyan @ it's current entry price point!  The DSD version will be slightly less like i've stated and all official pricing will be posted on the website this week.

 

I'm sorry for the long reply. I've not had any time to reply to many of those who have asked me about the HoloAudio Cyan Dac/Amp.  We are EXTREMELY excited to release this product to everyone and are very proud of how it's turned out. We think everyone will see this as a real success.  This may be the first time anyone has been able to release a discrete NOS R2R dac with integrated powerful balanced headamp 

 

Thoughts?

What would be the process for pre-ordering?

[Bimmer100]

8 minutes ago, franz159 said:

What would be the process for pre-ordering?

As of right now, to get on the list pre order then please contact us directly from our website contact form and mention which version of the Cyan you would like to order, voltage, your full shipping address, phone number and an email so we can send you an invoice via PayPal. Later his week will will add the Cyan to our online store. But as of now you can get on list for the first batch of Cyans that we receive. Any questions ?

official pricing will be discussed via email. 

[semente]

Very interesting.

Can it be run as a NOS DAC?

[Bimmer100]

1 hour ago, semente said:

Very interesting.

Can it be run as a NOS DAC?

It is a NOS Dac and sounds best this way

[semente]

10 minutes ago, Bimmer100 said:

It is a NOS Dac and sounds best this way

 

More interesting, especially the DSD version.

Where are you shipping from?

Can you get a unit in Europe for that price including customs tax?

[rickca]

So for volume control with the DSD version you need to have a preamp?

[Miska]

9 minutes ago, rickca said:

So for volume control with the DSD version you need to have a preamp?

 

Or you can adjust volume from the player side... For safety reasons preamp may be good, less prone to accidents.

 

[GUTB]

SUPER PUMPED GUYS!!

 

Linear compensation is a technique for compensating for low-cost transistor modules for PCM processing, DSD is 1-bit so who cares?? Totally pure DSD DAC can't wait!

[beerandmusic]

4 hours ago, Bimmer100 said:

 

We are now accepting orders for the HoloAudio CYAN. I've got the go ahead that they are not officially ready to ship. I can't wait to get my own for my desktop, however my wife will likely take mine once it arrives! it's a compact all in one solution that takes a small footprint on a desk. Discrete R2R with a very capable balanced Headphone Amp!  

 

However, for those who want the DSD module version... please note that it is ONLY a dac and does not have the headphone amplifier enabled... you may ask why???

Here is important note of information, the DSD signal is essentially cannot be digitally processed. So when a studio mixes the signals, it actually transforms/converts to PCM then do digital mix then transformed back to DSD. That's why DSD is accused in the audio industrial and potentially abandoned or less popular. Anyway, there are SACD available in market and it has a much higher bitrate than CD. So SACD is better resource still. Also, when you see a DSD dac chip that claims to be able to do digital volume control, then it must be transformed to PCM internally within the dac chip. Like ESS and AKM etc.. all their chips can support digital volume control in DSD. They actually transformed to PCM internally.

 

well DSD cannot have volume control...DSD is always @ 100% when in native... the amp would be at 100% volume all the time and will blow your ear drums or headphones IF we were to have an amp hooked up to the amp and volume control knob on the chassis..... so the headphone amp is not able to function. The Cyan with the discrete r2r DSD dac module is simply a pure discrete native DSD R2R Dac!!! no headphone amp... This version will be slightly less cost (approx 100usd cheaper) since we will end up not including the components for the headamp inside the chassis...yet the volume knob will be just decoration and no volume control function. For those who understand how DSD works, this doesn't need to be explained to why we have done this. Basically if you have volume control on DSD than the signal must be converted to PCM.  Our DSD dac module is pure native DSD and no conversion is done. Our discrete R2R resistor network is processing pure native DSD with NO conversion to PCM!   This DSD module version of the CYAN will be ideal for those who are DSD enthusiasts and want something quite special for a much more affordable price with excellent pure native DSD512.  The cyan will have the XMOS XU208 USB module as well.  Also a nice attractive remote control available  

Another interesting side note. The Cyan dac module is 28bit and due to the fact it has a digital volume control and the need for more bits will deliver optimal sound quality with zero compromise. The Cyan will surely impress everyone and I think it may be darn near impossibru to find a better dac/amp for the price which is targeted to be estimated in the range of 1000usd for PCM version and 100usd less for DSD version (no headamp) (final pricing will be announced begining of December/ This week!)

Anyhow, we expect to sell the PCM version of the Cyan as about 80% of sales since it will allow the quite capable balanced headamp to pair beautifully with the Discrete PCM R2R Dac module. And it will include an SRC(sample rate converter) that allows for DSD to play, however cannot compare to the quality of the Discrete R2R DSD dac module... It may be hard for some to choose which version they want to order... just get both if you can't decide!

 

 Full specifications of the Cyan will be released shortly. PLEASE NOTE: The Cyan does NOT have linear compensation like the Spring dac... Cyan Dac module is 28bit discrete R2R with digital volume control and NOS! beautiful analog like sound that flows effortlessly and with no fatigue.  Analog performance is approximately around 22bit and this is much higher than average NOS or OS R2R dacs on the market. This is a key feature for the Spring dac and one of the many reasons the Spring dac stands out on its own and capable of stellar sound quality. HOWEVER, we have worked very hard on the Cyan dac module and once we release specs you'll likely be quite surprised with its specifications and measurements of the dac and amplifier.  Personally i'm getting one of these for my wife and another one for my other office. This is a very compact neat and tidy solution for incredible value and sound quality all in one small chassis that won't take up much desktop space.  I'm getting a PCM version myself.  We should have a PCM Cyan and DSD Cyan available in the near future for reviewers and auditions.  Please contact us via our webisite if you are interested to preorder or discuss any details and questions. I've officially received an email from Jeff this morning saying they are now ready to ship!  

 

As of now there are no plans for any KTE versions of the Cyan. This is a dac/amp designed for moderate budget audio enthusiasts who are not willing to compromise on sound quality.. Both dac's are NOS and deliver very natural analog like sound with excellent detail and soundstage. But to clear up the most common question.... "How does this compare with the Spring dac?"   well.... the Spring dac is still on another level considering the Spring dac has Linear compensation and the Discrete dac module also has dedicated DSD r2r ladder dacs and dedicated PCM r2r ladder dacs. However it will be very hard to find another product that compares with the Cyan @ it's current entry price point!  The DSD version will be slightly less like i've stated and all official pricing will be posted on the website this week.

 

I'm sorry for the long reply. I've not had any time to reply to many of those who have asked me about the HoloAudio Cyan Dac/Amp.  We are EXTREMELY excited to release this product to everyone and are very proud of how it's turned out. We think everyone will see this as a real success.  This may be the first time anyone has been able to release a discrete NOS R2R dac with integrated powerful balanced headamp 

 

Thoughts?

do you have any plans on making a dac with an enet port?

[beerandmusic]

47 minutes ago, rickca said:

So for volume control with the DSD version you need to have a preamp?

or an integrated ....love my ma6500 (wink)...dacs w/no volume control preferred.

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, Bimmer100 said:

It is a NOS Dac and sounds best this way

Bimmer>> The Cyan with the discrete r2r DSD dac module is simply a pure discrete native DSD R2R Dac!!!

 

I am confused (which is typical for me-grin)....i thought NOS means no hardware upsampling....if it is a native dsd dac, how does it play a 44.1pcm file if no hardware upsampling?  What would be the output?

[Miska]

6 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

Bimmer>> The Cyan with the discrete r2r DSD dac module is simply a pure discrete native DSD R2R Dac!!!

 

I am confused (which is typical for me-grin)....i thought NOS means no hardware upsampling....if it is a native dsd dac, how does it play a 44.1pcm file if no hardware upsampling?  What would be the output?

 

I guess it is mostly like Spring DAC in DSD mode (where you also have option for built-in DSD OS), but without the PCM side.

 

[pkane2001]

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

I guess it is mostly like Spring DAC in DSD mode (where you also have option for built-in DSD OS), but without the PCM side.

 

A PCM version of Cyan will also be available, as I understand it.

[dmance]

@Bimmer100,  ive been waiting for a digital volume control on a holo...and now i have it in a de-featured product.  oh please just spec a CYANx2 PCM with full compensation added.!!  or make it an option

[stellablues]

To be clear on the DSD dac. We must feed a DSD signal, so using ROON i would have roon upsample the signal to DSD as I do today. Any other inputs using PCM would fail to connect? correct?

[Miska]

10 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

A PCM version of Cyan will also be available, as I understand it.

 

Yes, of course. But the discussion was about DSD version. So it's a like two halves of Spring DAC split into two separate products. Which makes total sense to me. So far I've been using only DSD side of the Spring (apart from measuring the PCM side too). While I bet there are many people who have been doing pretty much the opposite.

 

[Miska]

4 hours ago, stellablues said:

To be clear on the DSD dac. We must feed a DSD signal, so using ROON i would have roon upsample the signal to DSD as I do today. Any other inputs using PCM would fail to connect? correct?

 

I think it was said earlier that it contains the same optional DSD upsampling (PCM-to-DSD) feature as Spring? Or did it get dropped?

[Bimmer100]

26 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, of course. But the discussion was about DSD version. So it's a like two halves of Spring DAC split into two separate products. Which makes total sense to me. So far I've been using only DSD side of the Spring (apart from measuring the PCM side too). While I bet there are many people who have been doing pretty much the opposite.

 

 

Somewhat..... however the most important and impressive feature is not offered with the Cyan Dac Modules... no matter if you choose DSD or PCM dac modules.  The Cyan will not have the Linear Compensation that the Spring is so well known for and responsible for it's unique and impressive sound signature as well.  

 

But the Cyan have been painstakingly tuned to sound the very best a standard R2R NOS dac can sound... it's a 28bit Dac module and the Spring is a 24bit Dac module. However the Spring obviously doesn't need more since it's a fixed output and does not have digital volume control.

 

The Cyan will have the SRC or Sample Rate Convertor to allow for other formats as well as oversampling options.

 

To be direct and forward, I'm still trying to confirm the final specs for the Cyan DSD module and all it's specific specifications. I should get all this buttoned up and announced this week.  I just want everyone to be VERY CLEAR that the CYAN DSD module version will not have a headphone amp as it is disabled due to DSD not able to have volume control. Our R2R discrete dac is one of few to allow PURE NATIVE DSD over a high precision R2R ladder dac.  We are so very excited for our customers to give us feedback on this product.  To be quite honest, we have had some potential customers and general comments that have gone as far as to call us a liar when it comes to claiming that our Dac is able to do DSD native over an R2R network and no PCM conversion ever takes place.  Well, part of the the excitement about releasing this Cyan Dac is the DSD version which is a perfect solution for those who want to finally experience Native DSD in a new and different approach than with a traditional Delta Sigma 1bit dac.  We are quite happy with the results of  how DSD sounds over an R2R network.  The Cyan DSD module version is not as useful overall as our PCM model with the balanced XLR headphone amplifier.  However the real hardcore DSD enthusiasts will B-line right towards our HoloAudio Cyan DSD Dac.  Why not use this with roon and output absolutely everything to DSD512!  this would be an excellent solution... However don't forget to pair this with a very capable preamp, Amp or headphone amplifier. Personally I recommend the iFi Pro iCan Headphone amplifier as an end game solution....  AND, don't turn your nose up at this  as you'd be most surprised as how capable it is as a very good preamp as well! Seriously!

 

 

Anyhow. We are working on a list for the Cyan PCM and Cyan DSD  models...

 

those who choose the DSD model must full agree to the terms of sale, as oddly enough there are a lot of customers that assume the Cyan DSD will have a headphone amplifier and volume control... that is simply not the case.   The DSD model is targeted to have a price that should be approximately 100usd less than the Cyan.

 

Please do not quote me on any pricing at this time,  we only have a very rough range for the pricing. somewhere beyond a 1000usd is  estimated pricing for Cyan PCM, and will vary with some options we are still finalizing.

 

 

It's possible we may setup  an Audition of the Cyan PCM and Cyan DSD dac on this very forum. I'm hoping that maybe we can get some help organizing this and finding if there will be enough interest to support this Audition/Demo program.  For those who may be interested in this, please mention a short blurb about whether you would like to participate and if you have any suggestions and ideas to get this moving along as soon as possible.

 

The first 10 orders will receive a special gift as a thank you for supporting HoloAudio. Thank you everybody for your interest in our new exciting projects!!!

 

 

 

[semente]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, of course. But the discussion was about DSD version. So it's a like two halves of Spring DAC split into two separate products. Which makes total sense to me. So far I've been using only DSD side of the Spring (apart from measuring the PCM side too). While I bet there are many people who have been doing pretty much the opposite.

 

@Miska , I'm curious to know how the PCM side compare with other R2R DACs you've measured? Can you uploaded those measurements? What about the DSD side?