HOLO Audio Spring DAC - R2R DSD512

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It is surprising to see that Mac OS X Core Audio supports 1,5 MHz, when the Spirit 2 is connected. I did not expect it.  Only in 16 bit it seems, however. It gives me a kind of scratching noise at 24 bit. 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I had similar problem on Linux with 24-bit and the 32x rates. Needed some driver hacking to get it working (including DSD1024)...

 

Good thing is that you can get practically same performance by using 16-bit at those rates and noise shaping like NS5 or NS9.

 

 

I could not get PCM 1536 work properly and could not get DSD512 or 1024 work properly as well from Roon or HQP on my 18 core iMac Pro. The latter could be the limitation of OS X, but could not get it work with an SoTM SMS 200 as an NAA. 

 

So I may be forced to get a Windows machine just for experimenting with these very high sampling rates and native DSD. 

 

The Holo Spring 2 is coming up nicely and warming. I like it a lot even at 786 kHz or DSD256x. Really shimmering, organic sound, with a lot of energy in it. 

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28 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Which version do you have: L1, L2 or KTE?

Thanks

 

Matt

 KTE

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7 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I needed to make a change to HQPlayer to make it pick up 16-bit format when available and DAC Bits is set to <= 16.

 

Now I have that and everything else too working on Linux. I need to check my CoreAudio code for Mac regarding 16-bit output. For macOS I cannot make 24-bit at 32x rates or DSD512 work because I cannot modify the driver. Of course this is not restricting NAA output.

 

 

Actually I could not get 1024x DSD (or 512x for the record) work using NAA and SMS200 Neo from my iMac Pro. It can be an old SMS firmware, need to check the latest. I think the 18 Xeon core in the iMac Pro should be enough CPU power to try 1024x DSD at least with some of the modulators but did not work with any of them. 

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After roughly 36 hours of playing the new Holo Spring 2 just getting better. Every potential way. Sounds really entertaining, balanced and fluid even with rock, pop and punk music, with really anything Tidal can get in it in shuffle play. 

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43 minutes ago, rickca said:

Are the clocks in the Spring 2 better than the ones in the original Spring DAC?

It was said there are femto clocks in the v2, I do not know if they are the same or different in the old version, probably better? 

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2 hours ago, ferenc said:

After roughly 36 hours of playing the new Holo Spring 2 just getting better. Every potential way. Sounds really entertaining, balanced and fluid even with rock, pop and punk music, with really anything Tidal can get in it in shuffle play. 

 I just spent few hundred dollars to buy quite a few 2x HD label native DSD256 digitized tape recordings from nativedsd.com. They are absolutely wonderful with the v2. 

 

https://2xhd.nativedsd.com

 

https://2xhdstoryville.nativedsd.com

 

 

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38 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Hi ferenc,

 

just read your interesting post about your MBP with Elgato dock on WBF.

 

My questions:

Does the Spring2 sound better connected directly to the Elgato or directly to the MBP?

If it sounds better via Elgato is it better to have a long Thunderbolt cable from MBP  to Elgato and a short USB cable from Elgato to Spring2 or the contrary?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

I am using the Spring2 mainly with an 18 core iMac Pro / SoTM SMS200, tried it only briefly with the MBP, but I can say with some certainty, that it sounds more focused, with a bit more energy and with better flow through the Elgato, powered with the 20V 10A LPS, the SoTM SMS200 adds only a bit of a smoothness to it (as HQplayer NAA, and with 256x DSD). I use a 0,5m original Apple TB3 cable and a Wireworld Platinum 0,5m USB. Did not notice any difference with longer TB3. However I noticed that if I use a Delock USB C to USB A short converter from the TB3 connector of the iMac Pro, it sounds with less definition somehow (less focused)  than using the USB3 direct connections on the iMac Pro. 

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4 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

So when using the MBP/Elgato it may be a SQ benefit to run a 2m length TB3 cable from MBP and place the Elgato close to the DAC?

Thanks again

 

Matt

 

Yes, there is a good chance, if you have an LPS for the Elgato. I did not try it with its original SPS.

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The Singer SU-1 somehow and definitely sounds with a bit more juice through not only the I2S but the Coax as well in NOS mode and with 44,1k Tidal streaming or Flac files in Roon. Interesting. 

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1 hour ago, matthias said:

 

So even with the Spring2 the USB is some sort of bottleneck though they said it is much improved in comparison to Spring1?

 

Matt

 

The Holo is brand new, few dozens of hours in it, so there is a chance that it is in a run-in phase where subjectively the well run-in SU-1 sounds better. There is a difference between the I2S and the SPDIF input, the I2S is cleaner and more "robust", has more energy (with the cheapest 60cm long Audioquest HDMI cable) but the SPDIF is likable too. I could easily live with the SPDIF too. I tried to get DSD512 work through Hqplayer and NAA, the latter running on a SMS200 Neo, using either the USB or the I2S input of the Spring 2and it jus does not work, I can hear only a kind of slow, and distorted sound. It did not work with the SU-1 not with my iMac Pro or SMS200. I may be forced to get a Windows PC to try it and DSD1024. If it is possible at all. 

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8 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I'm not using NAA at all with Spring 2. At the moment I have my HQPlayer Embedded server directly connected to the Spring 2's USB input. Works up to 1.536 MHz 24-bit PCM and DSD1024. But for measurements I had it connected directly to my Xeon E5 workstation (running Linux) and HQPlayer Desktop was doing playback for that purpose. Also up to the same rates.

 

 

Thanks for the info. I may borrow an Intel workstation to install a HQPe to try. I could not get out higher than 786 kHz or DSD256 form my SMS200 or my iMac Pro with Roon or Hqplayer, directly or with NAA. Using 10.14.4 beta OS X I could get 1,4 and 15 Mhz PCM from Audio Midi from the OS, but only in 16 bit. Strange. 

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2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, you need some hacks to make it work. You can easily try it with HQPlayer OS image, no installation needed, you just boot it up and that's it.

 

 

Would it work with an iMac Pro or latest gen 15 lnch MacBook Pro? 

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12 hours ago, ferenc said:

The Holo is brand new, few dozens of hours in it, so there is a chance that it is in a run-in phase where subjectively the well run-in SU-1 sounds better. There is a difference between the I2S and the SPDIF input, the I2S is cleaner and more "robust", has more energy (with the cheapest 60cm long Audioquest HDMI cable) but the SPDIF is likable too. I could easily live with the SPDIF too. 

 

So after 24 hours it seems the SU-1 I2S and the Holo internal USB are getting closer than yesterday they were. However the SU-1 has a bit more fluidity, a kind of elegance in its sound and a bit better rhythmic flow. I am listening Native DSD sourced 2X HD labeled DSD256 analog tapes digitized files in Hqplayer in Direct SDM without any further processing, these recordings are absolutely fantastic, I bought a lot. The Holo is a bit further back. The SU-1 is bit more forward more between the boxes.

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I finally got my Spring 2 work at DSD512 from my iMac Pro and SMS200 Neo as NAA. It works only in native DSD did not work in DOP. The 18 cores of the iMac Pro needs to be used in multicore modes in HQP preferences, otherwise it is stuttering a lot. In this mode poly-sync works very well. This way the Spring 2 sounds quite a bit smoother, fuller that the SU-1 in DSD256 and in DOP. Actually like a 38 cm/s half inch master tape, it has a stability like the best of the tapes. 

 

As the iMac Pro has a lot of CPU power not fully used even for poly-sync for DSD512, I think the 18 cores would be enough to use for DSD1024, but it does not work with the the SMS200 yet, I tried and it was something very distorted and like a slow motion. Anyway I hope a firmware update will bring DSD1024 to SMS200 soon. Otherwise I need to find another NAA configuration.

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I wonder if using 1.536 kHz sampling with a Mac OS X 10.14.4.x only in 16 bit  as 24 bit gives a distorted sound, is a problem of Core Audio in the Mac OS X or a problem of the Holo firmware?

 

Would be nice to find it out. 

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7 hours ago, ferenc said:

I wonder if using 1.536 kHz sampling with a Mac OS X 10.14.4.x only in 16 bit  as 24 bit gives a distorted sound, is a problem of Core Audio in the Mac OS X or a problem of the Holo firmware?

 

Would be nice to find it out. 

 

I tried the 1.536 kHz 16 bit with HQplayer. It works. However, if I try higher than 16, 17 bit for example, I got the same distortion as with Core Audio, does not matter with what kind of algorithm and noise shaping. 

 

It can mean few things: 

 

- HQplayer is using the same Core Audio (or AV Foundation) built-in up conversion, I do not think so. 

- There is a general problem with the USB connection at this bitrate

- There is a problem with the Holo firmware or the hardware itself. 

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38 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

In my Spring2 thread Miska mentioned that the Spring is not able to settle to 24bit accuracy at 1,5MHz. If I recall correctly he said he would be surprised if the Spring can settle perfectly even at 16bit 1.5MHz.

 

Matt

 

 

It sounds perfectly ok in 16 bit 1.536 kHz. It could be used in 24 bit or higher only max at 768 kHz.

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24 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

IMO, this makes perfect sense.

1,5MHz is too high to settle at more than 16bit.

The problem is the R2R architecture.

 

Matt

 

It does not work with 1.411 kHz either, only in 16 bit too. 

So if it is the case than it should not be advertised as 1.536 kHz compatible. 

 

Actually it does not matter a lot, I like the sound at 768 kHz or in DSD256, 512 too. 

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50 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, by "1.5M" I mean both 1.4112M and 1.536M...

 

And it does work with more than 16-bit at those rates and of course DSD1024 too. Just not on macOS (without something like NAA to bypass macOS audio stack).

 

 

Unfortunately it does not work with SMS200 Neo and NAA either, but it is a very different distortion than than the MacOS distortion. 

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9 hours ago, Miska said:

 

It should work fine with the bootable NAA image version 3.5.6.

 

 

Do you have an NAA 3.6 ISO for the SMS200 as well? I see only x64 version of it on your site. 

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2 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

No, only for x64... I try to periodically update the CuBox-i and RasPi3 images too, but now those are a bit old and don't have this support yet.

SOtM and Sonore maintain their own OS, although the CuBox-i image now works on microRendu too.

 

 

Thanks as I thought. 

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On 7/23/2019 at 8:39 AM, adamthebrave said:

Hi Guys, I have a problem, if you can please help me.

 

I have a Spring Level 3 WILDISM  mod, it has an USB version 30.08. I succefully updated the driver to 4.67. Ibut  can't upgrade my firmware to 3.12 or 3.14 becouse I have an error message that this time there is no available firmware. I copied the files into the driver folder as it is in the description. I tried with my Sotm card and also with the onboard USB port as an admin, I have no more ideas...

 

Can it be the Entreq Atlantis the problem or am I doing somethng wrong?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

The 3.12 or 3.14 firmware is for Spring 2, not for Spring 1. Spring 2 is using XMOS 216 chip as I remember. Not the 208. This is probably the reason why the new firmware can not be installed. 

 

I installed the new firmware and it now works properly with Jcat Femto and PP v2 USB cards in Windows. It worked with Audiolinux with the same USB cards earlier but after the firmware upgrade the sound using AL considerably more airy and smoother. So it was not a firmware upgrade just for compatibility they could do something more.