HOLO Audio Spring DAC - R2R DSD512

[asdf1000]

2 minutes ago, oneguy said:

If memory serves me well, one for powering the DAC and the other for keeping it warm while in standby mode. 

 

Yup, it's there on the website too

 

[asdf1000]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

ve been testing the Spring 2 L2 DAC with HQPlayer and with some interesting results.

 

If you wanna see some clean Jtest24 figures, here's one! Spring 2 running at DSD256

 

Have you mentioned the DSD256 performance specifically because it measures a bit better than with DSD512 for this DAC?

 

[asdf1000]

11 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

It is the sweet spot based on my measurements, so yes that's the reason...

 

 

Nice.

 

Is it the best measuring DAC you've had at your test bench? Must be close!

 

[asdf1000]

14 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

1 kHz 0 dB tone at DSD256:

THD+N: 0.00080%

 

19+20 kHz IMD test at DSD256:

IMD: 0.00002%

 

So this is certainly among the best performing DACs!

 

 

Do you have the jitter measurement from 0kHz to 100kHz also?

 

[asdf1000]

4 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

No, because there's no point in such, you cannot see anything relevant from such. 

 

 

I've seen some people showing wide scaler jitter measurements to show if there is any power supply related noise, at low frequencies of course.

 

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

Rather I will start making also more zoomed-in versions with +- 1 kHz or +- 500 Hz frequency window to better show phase noise details like HiFi-News has started to do now.

 

I guess that will show any PSU related noise?

 

 

[asdf1000]

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

You can see that 50 Hz hum and DC differential DC offset is below -120 dB. And no spurious noise tones from PSU or other leakage.

 

 

Very nice. Thanks Jussi!

[asdf1000]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

So this is certainly among the best performing DACs!

 

What's your SNR calculation for your Spring2 L2?

 

Must be over 120? dB(A)?

[asdf1000]

Hi @Miska 

 

Is the recommendation to set DAC bits = 20, applicable to all Spring1, Spring2 and Cyan?

 

[asdf1000]

17 minutes ago, Miska said:

But with Spring 2 if you run it at 32x rates (1.4112/1.536 MHz) at 16-bit for example form macOS (maximum you can do there), noise shapers make a big difference.

 

 

Thanks. For Spring2 specifically which noise shaper would you recommend at PCM1.4/1.5 MHz?

 

Both NS5 and NS9 perform similarly ?

 

Is that what you meant by the 20 bits digital noise floor is already below analogue noise floor?

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

Here's NS5 at 20-bit:

 

Holy moly. So clean !

How does Spring2 perform with your recently adopted TIM measurements?

 

And ASR style 32 tones test?

 

With DSD256 of course.

[asdf1000]

On 2/21/2020 at 4:20 AM, Bimmer100 said:

Once the serene comes out it would be an incredible matching setup with the finest components for preamp/and headamp

 

Hi Tim (if you're still here).

 

I've been looking for a Holo DSD DAC but with headamp output (analogue volume control).

 

Is this what Serene will be? Or no DAC inside Serene?

 

 

[asdf1000]

I know @Miska has shared measurements showing Holo Spring2 measures best with DSD256 input.

 

Someone has shown similar measurement showing it measures best with DSD256 input:

 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wolfx700-measurements-of-holo-audio-spring-2-lv2.10678/post-296723

 

It's always nice to see additional verification.

[asdf1000]

22 minutes ago, Bimmer100 said:

 

serene will be totl or flagship preamp/headamp. Same form factor as spring/spring2/May dac chassis and designed to pair perfectly with these products. It will be an absolutely epic preamp/headamp with tech similar to azure yet many improvements of course. 
 

 

Thanks!

 

No DAC inside Serene , correct?

[asdf1000]

Hi @Miska

 

Is the Spring1 and Spring2 based on your open DSC1 Open Hardware design?

 

Did the designer contact you during design with questions?

 

Or even when you opened your unit you can see it is based on your design?

[asdf1000]

Hi @Miska

 

Looking at Spring2 DSD512 input (I assume DSD256 is similar) vs RME ADI-2 DAC DSD256 input measurement below...

 

Which of these 2 measurements is technically the best?

 

Do the 'humps' of the ADI-2 make it technically worse than the Spring2?

 

Or do the increased number of spikes of the Spring2 make it technically worse than ADI-2?

 

I know both are STELLAR performers, but just trying to understand the technical differences in these measurements specifically.

 

Holo Spring2

 

 

RME ADI-2 DAC:

[asdf1000]

11 minutes ago, Miska said:

Note that the newer version of ADI-2 with new AKM chip likely eliminates those remaining noise humps as well. They changed DSD handling between these two DAC chips.

 

Thanks!

 

Can you summarise how DSD handling changed with newer DAC chip?

 

I couldn't see anything drastically different in block diagrams but i might have missed it

[asdf1000]

On 11/18/2020 at 11:49 PM, Miska said:

the two filter settings are different.

 

I do see the two filter settings are different in the AK4493

 

But strangely the newer RME ADI-2 FS DAC's DSD filter settings haven't changed:

 

 

 

 

 

[asdf1000]

3 hours ago, juanitox said:

PCM with the HOLO goes higher with the dynamic and  details ,  DSD sounds more intimate and softer

 

This is a comment I often see from the anti-DSD crowd , that DSD sounds soft 

 

[asdf1000]

12 minutes ago, barrows said:

In my comparisons with PCM, I would say that PCM sounds hard and edgy, like there is an artificial edge enhancement to it.  When I have compared DSD to actual acoustic instruments, it sounds much closer ot the tonality and density of the real thing, where PCM sounds hyped up and transient exaggerated.

I could see home some might find the hyped up sound thrilling... 

 

Is that with PCM ~1.5 MHz though? 

[asdf1000]

2 minutes ago, barrows said:

I have never heard of PCM recorded at 1.5 MHz...

 

I was replying to and quoting someones comments about upsampled PCM1.5MHz vs DSD256 to the Holo DAC. Both cases talking about upsampling.

 

Specifically their comment about DSD sounding softer in that regard.

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, juanitox said:

Softer doesn't mean rolled of in my mouth ,  and it is very dependent with the HQP filter . 

 

True, also DAC dependant. 

 

I found DSD upsampling sounded too soft with iFi DACs (from iDAC2 to Pro iDSD).

 

But not too soft with my V2 RME-ADI-2 in 'DSD Direct' mode.

 

Modulator makes big difference I found too - ASDM7 vs ASDM7EC . DSD still sounds smoother than PCM for  me but that might be due to lack of anti aliasing images! 

[asdf1000]

12 hours ago, Miska said:

Won't work on RasPi4...

 

Hi @Miska, what's the reason it won't work on RPi4?

 

I though all RPi issues related to USB audio output were solved with RPi4.