HOLO Audio Spring DAC - R2R DSD512

[GUTB]

Look elsewhere because this thing doesn't do DSD, being a R2R ladder design. It converts DSD to PCM, lol.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[GUTB]

The statement that it processes DSD through a dedicated R2R ladder is of course a lie because R2R networks can't work with 1 bit streams.

 

Sent from my LG-H820 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[GUTB]

Actually, you will need to look a little deeper technically. Your statement above borders on being libelous.

 

R2R ladders can process 1-bit streams?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[GUTB]

What I read on their site is that it converts DSD to PCM. Which makes sense as R2R ladders work by comparing bits of a digital audio stream in order to produce an analogue signal, meaning that using this method to decode DSD is impossible. The separate native DSD dual ladder board blurb is simply a LIE or at least misinformation by someone's bad translation.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[GUTB]

Here it is from the horse's mouth: "So, now you should know, DSD native is just about the way it transfers the stream. Not describing the way it does digital to analog conversion. At the DAC stage, the DSD stream can convert to PCM then do the final digital to analog conversion. Actually, most DAC chips do this inside the chip. One point needs to be remembered, DSD streams can’t do volume attenuation. If this chip can do digital volume control under DSD mode, then is must converted to PCM already."

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[GUTB]

You guys are trying too hard. That quote is from Jeff Zhou, the guy who designed this DAC. He admits DSD native refers to how the Spring accepts native DSD streams, and then clarifies that it's converted to PCM for actual A/D conversion. What follows is just excuses/apology as to why it doesn't really do native DSD (i.e., most other DACs don't either).

 

The fact is this: R2R ladders can't deal with 1-bit streams because it requires multiple bits to compare with in order to generate the analog signal.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[GUTB]

Guys, the designer of the Spring says what it does -- converts DSD to PCM.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[GUTB]

Wait, I recall the Pink Faun didn't support DSD -- and they had a write-up on thier page about how DSD sucks, etc. Have they added DSD support?

 

Sent from my LG-H820 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[GUTB]

Okay fine, I agree there are two resistor ladders now. But HOW does this PCM ladder network handle 1-bit streams? I just don't buy it. Does it transform into a virtual DS DAC similar to how Miska suggested?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[GUTB]

Or...Linux is trash and should be avoided at all costs. Built my audio server using Windows 10 and Fidelizer Pro. Everything worked first time perfectly with 0 issues since including JRiver, HQPlayer and the million other Windows niceties such as rdp, HDtracks working properly, driver management simplicity, effortless access to all sorts of monitoring tools etc and so on.

 

Sent from my LG-H820 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[GUTB]

Okay guys, please correct me if I'm wrong on these points:

 

1. No XMOS device will handle DSD512.

 

2. Only Amanero devices will handle DSD512.

 

3. Only way to get DSD512 out of your PC is via USB.

 

4. Bug in the Linux driver for Amanero keeps DSD512 from working in Linux systems (i.e., MicroRendu).

 

5. The Pink Faun is a PCM device only and will never be able to handle native DSD.

 

6. There is nothing at all that will work with DSD1024.

 

7. The only way to defeat the SRC stage in a DS type DAC is to meet the following requirements:

A: Use an I2S interface,

B: Send native DSD through the I2S interface,

C: DAC implementation is programmed to allow skipping of the SRC.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[GUTB]

Please move this to the proper thread. The Holo dac is XMOS-based and I'm getting DSD512 (as reported dozens and dozens of times!) from both Linux (microRendu) and Windows (ASIO driver). Your list is both inaccurate and irrelevant to this thread.

 

Touchy....

 

May I ask what version of the XMOS driver you have that supports DSD512 -- which I assume is native (not DoP)?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[GUTB]

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/holo-audio-spring-dac-level-3-kitsune-tuned-edition-impressions-reviews.3172/

 

Been enjoying reading about this Dac.

 

This is a nice comparison with the Yaggy if you want to read it[emoji4]

 

Good luck

Dave

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

SBAF is a cult / insular ego bottom feeder site. The general audio knowledge of CA is significantly higher. Marvey, the owner of the site, also reviewed the Spring and found it to be slightly inferior....to the Gunjir Multibit.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[GUTB]

Has anyone tried the level 1 vs the level 3? The extreme price difference for some upgraded parts honestly doesn't seem like a good deal.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[GUTB]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong:

 

There is NO Linux solution for DSD512 available until Amanero fixes their drivers.

 

There are no XMOS solutions that can handle DSD512.

 

The STANDARD Amanero board has broken DSD512 (noise present).

[GUTB]

So, the XMOS board doesn't normally handle DSD512, but there's a firmware update coming out for the Singxer SU-1 that will support it? 

[GUTB]

59 minutes ago, ted_b said:

XMOS supports DSD512, and I reported on it numerous times!!!....the latest being this week when my updated SU-1 will play DSD512. 

 

Okay, but WHY do all the ads for the Singxer, including ALL the specs I see online for XMOS U208 boards have only DSD256 listed? 

[GUTB]

Extremely interested in the Cyan. I will certainly be trying it out.

[GUTB]

It’s extremely disappointing that Holo won’t get MQA. Oh well.

[GUTB]

So...it;s good that it’s missing a highly desirable feature?

[GUTB]

Isn't it common knowledge that digital signal attenuation is worse than analog control -- and the reason why virtually every high end DAC with a volume control uses analog?

[GUTB]

Okay I never tried running my X20U directly into my new monos (Lindenberg Allegro). I’m currently using a Mjolnir 2 (my favorite Schiit headphone amp) running Bugle Boys as a preamp as a stand-in while I figure out a good preamp setup. My prior experiences with the X20U’s digital volume control was bad — reduced SQ. The X20U seems to use the 9018’s volume control module.

 

So because of strong claims made in here, I tried pulling out the Mjolnir and plugging the X20U directly into the Allegro. The X20U is hardware balanced so there should be no SE summing/combining/whatever involved anywhere in this chain. Also, the Allegros are only 50 watts so they don’t need a lot of attentuation to achieve a good listening volume, generally around -5 to -8 dB.

 

Soundstage seems to have narrowed and depth is sometimes harder to ascertain. Emotional engagement seems to have been completely sucked out. There is a piercing digital glare in the upper-mids / low highs that’s very annoying in some tracks — what I recall from headphone listening with the X20U. These observations may be in my head so next step is to put the Mjolnir back in to see if my observations change. Maybe the Mjolnir and its premium NOS tube stage is hiding the Sabre’s glare and adding layer of fluffy tube euphonics.

[GUTB]

Well, putting the Mjolnir back in...yeah, the difference is huge. Digital volume control is in fact embarrassingly bad, or the the preamp stage is just a massively improvement. I noticed higher resolution when using the digital volume -- things like recording room echo was more obvious, hard Ps, etc. But relying on the X20U was like watching a scene through a viewport, while the Mjolnir was more like standing in the venue, much wider and imaging more solid / deep. Bigger. The edge is taken off the glare.

 

Am I doing something wrong, or is this a case of people who've never heard high end audio?

[GUTB]

Just now, pkane2001 said:

 

You’re doing something wrong.

 

 

Some recommendations please?

[GUTB]

OKAY GUYS TIME TO GET REAL:

 

Some months ago I asked about DSD512 support for XMOS. I was told very clearly that it's here via firmware already. So my question is...where's the firmware? I see that Holo is selling an upgraded SU-1 for which you need to email to get the specific drivers that will support 512. Okay. But for XMOS at large? No information AT ALL. Only that u216 board on diyaudio which does not look like it's a plug-in replacement for the standard 208 / Amanero boards out there. 

 

So, does XMOS finally have DSD 512 and no one has updated their eBay descriptions yet...or what? Is the Holo upgraded SU-1 the only option for 512 on XMOS?