Was Journey, Foreigner, etc Bad?

[firedog]

Yeah, all those bands were more original and had greater arranging skills than the Beatles....NOT.

[duxservit]

My god, man; wait a minute. Does everyone on your list beat the biggest selling and, dare I say, the most loved and adored musical group in the history of our planet? Even the Carpenters? Don't get me wrong. I really liked the Carpenters but imho they don't come close to McCartney, Harrison or Lennon, not to mention the band as a whole. If Zeppelin is a 4 to 4.5 (out of a 1-5 scale?), who would you say is a perfect 5? It's all subjective and I mean no disrespect. Have a great evening.

 

He he - I did say it was subjective :-)

 

No one gets a perfect 5 -- ok maybe (just maybe) Miles Davis, but he wasn't a rock band :-)

[Gary.D.Olson]

He he - I did say it was subjective :-)

 

No one gets a perfect 5 -- ok maybe (just maybe) Miles Davis, but he wasn't a rock band :-)

 

I would agree Zeppelin is a 4.5 on a scale from 1 to 4.5

[Paul R]

Out of 5 stars, these are some of the bands from 1970s and 1980s:

 

- Foreigner and Journey are a bit light on all three aspects. 2 stars.

- Carpenters are good. 3 or 4 stars.

- Steely Dan -- very good. 4 stars.

- Genesis with Peter Gabriel -- 4 to 4.5 stars.

- Cream -- 3 to 3.5 stars.

- Beatles - 3 stars.

- Rolling Stones - 3.5 stars.

- Led Zeppelin - 4 to 4.5 stars

- Grateful Dead - 4 to 4.5.

 

my 2 cents :-)

 

This looks like fun - wish we could do a survey with this type of information in it!

 

My take would be a little different, as noted below. Funny how different tastes can be?

Foreigner and Journey are a bit light on all three aspects. 4 stars.

- Carpenters are good. 4 stars.

- Steely Dan -- very good. 4 stars.

- Genesis with Peter Gabriel -- 2.0 stars.

- Cream -- 3 to 3.5 stars.

- Beatles - 4.5 stars.

- Rolling Stones - 3.5 stars.

- Led Zeppelin - 3.0stars

- Grateful Dead - 3.0

 

Fives (5's) for me by the way, strangely enough, are all albums. That would probably be:

 

 

• Alan Parsons (Pyramid, Eve, The Time Machine)
  
• Moody Blues (Days of Future Passed, Strange Times)
  
• Paul McCartney (Tug of War)
  
• PM & Wings (LondonTown, Venus and Mars)
  
• Elton John (Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy)
  
• Paul Simon (Still Crazy After all These Years)
  
• Peter, Paul, and Mary (LifeLines)
  
• Billy Joel (The Nylon Curtain)
  

 

I would give them 5's for the total impact of the album on me, not for any particular hit song they inspired or contained.

 

 

 

 

-

[Priaptor]

This looks like fun - wish we could do a survey with this type of information in it!

 

My take would be a little different, as noted below. Funny how different tastes can be?

Foreigner and Journey are a bit light on all three aspects. 4 stars.

- Carpenters are good. 4 stars.

- Steely Dan -- very good. 4 stars.

- Genesis with Peter Gabriel -- 2.0 stars.

- Cream -- 3 to 3.5 stars.

- Beatles - 4.5 stars.

- Rolling Stones - 3.5 stars.

- Led Zeppelin - 3.0stars

- Grateful Dead - 3.0

 

Fives (5's) for me by the way, strangely enough, are all albums. That would probably be:

 

 

• Alan Parsons (Pyramid, Eve, The Time Machine)
  
• Moody Blues (Days of Future Passed, Strange Times)
  
• Paul McCartney (Tug of War)
  
• PM & Wings (LondonTown, Venus and Mars)
  
• Elton John (Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy)
  
• Paul Simon (Still Crazy After all These Years)
  
• Peter, Paul, and Mary (LifeLines)
  
• Billy Joel (The Nylon Curtain)
  

 

I would give them 5's for the total impact of the album on me, not for any particular hit song they inspired or contained.

 

 

 

 

-

 

Paul,

 

This is an interesting thread and I like your perspective of group rating and album rating. I need to think about this to put my two cents in. Having seen so many of these groups in person in my younger days, evokes a personal bias that may overestimate, to me at least, their rating in today's world. For example, my favorite group as a kid were the Allman Brothers, who I say 13 times, including the last concert without Duane and the first concert without Duane and today I barely listen to them. I find myself, in today's world, listening to groups from the past that don't hurt my eardrums, that are on the light side and that were either well recorded or remastered in a way that makes them a wonderful day with my system.

 

So, driving to work, when not listening to talk radio, my listening tastes are quite different than when I listen to my stereo. While I think the Beatles may be the greatest group of all time, I barely listen to them on my stereo, unless it is a remix like Love which I LOVE. Some Santana stuff is fantastic. Nils has some amazing stuff out there. Some of the remastered Doors stuff is excellent. You hit some of the real good ones in Peter, Paul & Mary, Paul Simon, Elton John, Parson, Moody Blues and I would add Cat Stevens. I love to listen to CSN&Y both old and new on well recorded stuff as well as Neil Young on some of his well recorded stuff. The Dead is always good and there are tons of recordings to choose from for anyone who loves the Dead. As much as I like Hendrix, I can't listen listen to him on my stereo. Some Fleetwood Mac stuff, although I was no fan as a kid, I like much more today as some of their recordings and remasters are pretty good. And the list goes on.

 

Need more thought on this.

[ted_b]

Never liked them (Foreigner, Journey, Styx, Kansas) and still don't. Bu then I was a musical frickin snob back in the seventies, and if the band/musician wasn't from overseas I disliked them or never opened myself up to them. I counted on less than both hands the acts I liked back then from this side (US/Canada) of the ocean: Little Feat. Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, 70's Beach Boys, Jackson Browne, Grateful Dead, the Guess Who, Steely Dan and The Band. It's not like that anymore, and I realize I missed out on a lot at the time, but am catching up. But, still no Foreigner, etc.

[89reksal]

Not sure if hate is too strong a word but I couldn't stand Foreigner, Journey, Boston, Kansas, Styx, and I'm sure there's more I'm missing. Besides the music itself, it was always the voices that really got me. Something very similar in all the voices of the lead singers in those bands to me. Not sure how to describe it but they definitely weren't rock and roll voices. Almost too perfect for rock and roll? Oh, and did I mention the music itself?

 

I've always believed that those bands and their contemporaries were the impetus for the entire punk rock scene.

 

Queen used to be in that same category for me but I could bear some of their stuff. The music made it bearable, Freddie's voice was what I could't take. Rush was in the same category for me although I could never get past Geddy Lee's voice. The music without him singing could sometimes be tolerable but even growing up in the Toronto area I've never owned anything by Rush or seen them live.

 

I was also definitely a music snob, so take that for context.

[christopher3393]

Since 2 of the albums mentioned came out in '81, that's what I'm trying to recall. MTV launched that year, which was interesting. I made 2 moves that year, which affected my music interests. First, to Madison, WI, where I spent a lot of time at a small club called Merlin's. This club brought in a surprising number of national and international bands, mostly punk/new wave but other stuff as well.

 

In the fall, I moved to LA, discovered Rodney on KROQ, and launched into exploring the SoCal punk scene. I just didn't notice bands like Journey, Styx, Foreigner. I had a strong aversion to DuranDuran and some other "new wave" stuff, wasn't into the LA metal scene, which seemed dominated by big hair glam metal, and just didn't like the Hollywood metal scene at that time much at all. I liked bands like The Clash, U2, The Police, Talking Heads, The Pretenders, and plenty of other stuff. Mostly listened to or went to see bands like X, The Blasters, T.S.O.L., Dead Kennedys, Bad Religion, Meat Puppets, The Gun Club, Butthole Surfers, early Oingo Boingo and Wall of Voodoo, Gang of Four, The Stranglers, Social Distortion, Black Flag, Minute Men, Circle Jerks, China White, Agent Orange, Fear, etc.

 

That was '81. It didn't last too long. I don't listen to any of that any more. Haven't for a long time.

[wgscott]

Come on. Not all Styx was bad.

 

This was my favorite, back in the day:

 

[video=youtube;qB-nGVqNciE]

 

Now it might be considered culturally insensitive.

[wgscott]

Dead Kennedys...I don't listen to any of that any more. Haven't for a long time.

 

About 8 years ago, I sat next to Jello Biafra on a flight to London for about 11 hours. Got no work done, but it was entertaining.

[Norton]

I guess one argument would be that any band that has brought so much pleasure to so many can't be described as bad. However...

 

My teenage taste included lots of Styx, Kansas, Rush and Queen. In general I was ridiculed by my (UK) friends for this, particularly for the lack of "authenticity" at a time that punk was just getting going.

 

40 years on I've still got the LPs and even play them sometimes, my verdict in 2016:

 

Styx and Kansas: cringe- making levels of pomposity, Come Sail Away massively deserved being parodied on South Park;

 

Rush: amazingly high levels of musicianship coupled with dodgy politics and again cringe worthy bombastic lyrics - I feel truly ashamed for my teenage self every time I hear "and the meek shall inherit the earth". When all my friends wanted was anarchy in the UK or a white riot, it was quite hard to persuade them as to the merits of libertarian economic theory- based rock.

 

Queen- were considered hugely uncool by my peers in the 70s, but looking back now I realise they were the supreme showmen. From footage of Hammersmith Odeon 1975, I really regret never seeing them live in their heyday when I had the chance.

[diggle]

Michael Jackson was the only BAD one Foreigner, Journey, Kansas weren't BAD. They were simply waaaay tooooo sweeeeet... For me.

[wgscott]

Michael Jackson was the only BAD one Foreigner, Journey, Kansas weren't BAD. They were simply waaaay tooooo sweeeeet... For me.

 

[Gary.D.Olson]

Sorry for the length. It really got away from me.

 

Like Paul R, most of my favorites are albums too (a tip of the hat to Brown Dirt Cowboy, and add Yell'r Brick Road).

 

These are all 5's imho

 

Abbey Road

Peter Gabriel "So"

Michael Jackson "Bad" & Thriller"

Annie Lennox "Diva"

B52's "B52's" & "Whammy"

Brian Ferry "Bête Noire"

Chicago "17" & "Greatest Hits"

The Cult "Sonic Temple"

Def Leppard "Pyromania" & "Hysteria"

Duran Duran "Notorious", "Wedding", "All You Need Is Now"

Eagles "One of these Nights" & "Hell Freezes Over"

Elton John (above)

Heart "Little Queen" (Ann was the greatest female rock singer of all time)

INXS "Kick" & "Listen Like Thieves"

John Lennon "Double Fantasy"

Foreigner "4"

Kansas "Leftoverture" & "Masque"

Houses of the Holy, II, III, Physical Graffiti, Presence

Michael Hedges "Taproot"

Missing Persons "Spring Session M"

The Motels "All Four One" & "Little Robbers"

Peter Frampton "Comes Alive" (Yeah, but there's a reason everyone had it)

Pink Floyd "DSOTM", "Wishing You Were Here"

Roxy Music "Avalon"

Simon & Garfunkel "Bridge over Troubled Water"

Tears for Fears (all)

U2 "War" & "Unforgettable Fire"

Ultravox "Quartet"

Yes "Yessongs"

Van Halen "Van Halen", "1984" & "5150"

Talking Heads "Little Creatures"

[Dan Gravell]

When I consider different artworks - visual, audible or whatever, I like to use the points in this essay: Taste for Makers

 

These are broad guidelines of course and don't necessarily apply. But let's take each one:

 

- Simple. This is a place where the hair rock bands fall down. Over elaborate, egotistical, only the prog rockers beat them here

 

- Timeless. Some of the stand out riffs from these bands are still enjoyed today - look at their use in commercials etc. [i'm a bit suspicious of this point because I believe it's no bad thing if art feels of its day or place - a sense of terroir as the French would call it].

 

- Suggestive. The bands are all about LOOK HOW MANY CHORDS I CAN PLAY. That's not suggestive, it's not subtle, it's in bad taste to my mind. Proper guitarists are like Johnny Marr or John Squire. They bring you with them, not force you to the crowd and watch how great they are

 

- Slightly funny. Only in an ironic way, but that wasn't by design. They certainly aren't witty.

 

- Makes it look easy. I think these bands are good at this.

 

Overall they aren't to my taste but like anyone I still get pumped up when I hear the mid section of Don't Stop Believin'.

[christopher3393]

About 8 years ago, I sat next to Jello Biafra on a flight to London for about 11 hours. Got no work done, but it was entertaining.

 

No doubt. Watched a bunch of Dead Kennedy performances on YouTube last night, and a 10-minute 2013 interview with Jello Biafra. Enjoyed the whole thing.

[semente]

A lot of popular music is like chewing gum, it'll provide mild satisfaction to your curiosity for a short while and then you just throw it in the bin...

 

R

[Iain]

Frankly, I see no evidence against this title being the pinnacle of American rock musik.

 

Nothing before or since, has been able to equal it.

 

Enjoy:

 

 

 

Addendum:

I've been searching for a legitimate multi-channel SA-CD of this title for several years, without much success. Any suggestions as to where I might find one?

 

BTW, no dodgy, rip-off versions from Japan, please.

[Gary.D.Olson]

Frankly, I see no evidence against this title being the pinnacle of American rock musik.

 

Nothing before or since, has been able to equal it.

 

Enjoy:

 

 

 

Addendum:

I've been searching for a legitimate multi-channel SA-CD of this title for several years, without much success. Any suggestions as to where I might find one?

 

BTW, no dodgy, rip-off versions from Japan, please.

 

 

Steve Gadd... He was the Ice Man of percussion. His single requirement when crafting music: perfection, that's all.

[chilledbongo]

All the bands mentioned were extremely white. Not much groove, soul. Today's equivalent of music heard through a laptop with no DAC......???

 

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[Gary.D.Olson]

All the bands mentioned were extremely white. Not much groove, soul. Today's equivalent of music heard through a laptop with no DAC......

 

Sent from my SM-T810 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

 

Granted, Michael Jackson was arguably white.

[christopher3393]

In '81 M.J. was big and about to get much bigger (Thriller in '82), Bob Marley died, Prince was emerging (1999 was released in '82), P-Funk was kind of on hiatus, GrandMaster Flash made a splash, and Rick James was at his apex. Disco was over, which was a great relief.

 

I thought the thread was kind of about rock bands. And it is very white and male around here.

 

If we are digging back a bit for soul, groove, psychedelia, bluesy rock that blew the doors wide open?

 

Jimi Hendrix Experience: Are You Experienced? (this was a 10 out of a possible 5)

Axis Bold as Love

Electric Ladyland

 

Jimi Hendrix: Band of Gypsies

 

But this goes without saying, right ?

[firedog]

In '81 M.J. was big and about to get much bigger (Thriller in '82), Bob Marley died, Prince was emerging (1999 was released in '82), P-Funk was kind of on hiatus, GrandMaster Flash made a splash, and Rick James was at his apex. Disco was over, which was a great relief.

 

I thought the thread was kind of about rock bands. And it is very white and male around here.

 

If we are digging back a bit for soul, groove, psychedelia, bluesy rock that blew the doors wide open?

 

Jimi Hendrix Experience: Are You Experienced? (this was a 10 out of a possible 5)

Axis Bold as Love

Electric Ladyland

 

Jimi Hendrix: Band of Gypsies

 

But this goes without saying, right ?

 

No argument from me.

 

Listened to Axis Bold as Love yesterday and for the millionth time enjoyed Jimi and am amazed by his playing. Yeah, there are a couple of weak songwriting examples on the album, but it's still great.

[Paul R]

In '81 M.J. was big and about to get much bigger (Thriller in '82), Bob Marley died, Prince was emerging (1999 was released in '82), P-Funk was kind of on hiatus, GrandMaster Flash made a splash, and Rick James was at his apex. Disco was over, which was a great relief.

 

I thought the thread was kind of about rock bands. And it is very white and male around here.

 

If we are digging back a bit for soul, groove, psychedelia, bluesy rock that blew the doors wide open?

 

Jimi Hendrix Experience: Are You Experienced? (this was a 10 out of a possible 5)

Axis Bold as Love

Electric Ladyland

 

Jimi Hendrix: Band of Gypsies

 

But this goes without saying, right ?

 

Heavens Yes! I was thinking the same as you.

 

Take the 1973 release of _The Pointer Sisters_, definitely a 5 for me if for nothing else than HooDoo Rhythm Devils and Wang Dang Doodle!

 

Or the Mid 80's _Who's Zooming Who_, another 5 for me from the great Aretha Franklin

 

_Thriller_ from Michael Jackson is also a 5 to me.

 

-Paul

[chilledbongo]

James Brown was still making noise back then, and his band would blow the doors off most of these....

Hendrix goes without saying, of course.....

Miles Davis was trying to be a rock star at the time, and anything of his would be quite a few levels upwards.....

 

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