Was Journey, Foreigner, etc Bad?

[Gary.D.Olson]

Yesterday on the interweb, I happened upon a live video of Foreigner from a 1985 concert, and was absolutely floored by their phenomenal performance. When it ended, my first thought was "they don't make them like that anymore" (these days, "vocalists" lip-sync on stage and use pitch correction in the studio. Lou Gramm? Not so much.). My second thought was an old memory of being lifted up by my underwear because I liked Foreigner.

 

Arena Rock, Commercial Rock, Boardroom Rock, The Carpenters, whatever you call it; I have two, no, three questions for those of you who openly or mentally ridiculed guys like me for buying Foreigner "Four", Journey "Escape", or Kansas "Leftoverture":

 

1. What was it about these bands you found distasteful?

 

2. Do you still believe the ridicule was warranted or fair?

 

3. Do you now like any music you ridiculed in your youth?

[Gary.D.Olson]

So, to rephrase: under what, if any, historical-social-cultural conditions can certain specifiable expressions of musical taste be deemed "wedgie-worthy"?

 

What indeed.

[Gary.D.Olson]

I listened to some "Kansas" on spotify the other day. I am hoping it can't be traced back to me. I closed all the windows first so the neighbors wouldn't hear it. I liked them briefly in college until it was pointed out to me they were a bunch of evangelical born-again Christians. Oy vey!

 

I believe that was only Livgren & Hope, and just before John Elefante joined.

[Gary.D.Olson]

LOL! To be honest I find myself in the same boat. I really like the old 80's music. Recently I was just looking up soundtracks from movies like "Footloose", "Flashdance", "Top Gun", etc. That music was just great. It's like comfort food for me now.

 

 

 

 

All great music there Paul. Karen Carpenter's voice is still among my all time greats. Some of the licks that Foreigner came up with are just burned into my sub conscious. The Eagles might just be one of the greatest ever. Fleetwood Mac's music is still fresh as it was all those years ago. Brilliant stuff!

 

I suspect if you ask 10 people to name corporate rock bands you'd get 11 answers. I've never heard Eagles or Fleetwood Mac accused, but affirmative on Asia, REO Speedwagon, Supertramp & Steely Dan (vehemently disagree here - these guys were fabulous and very original imho).

[Gary.D.Olson]

It's all very subjective and depends on tastes, age, etc. When I look at bands - in the past and today - I look for (a) originality ("signature sound") in the context of was around then; (b) skills in arrangement; © individual player skills.

 

Out of 5 stars, these are some of the bands from 1970s and 1980s:

 

- Foreigner and Journey are a bit light on all three aspects. 2 stars.

- Carpenters are good. 3 or 4 stars.

- Steely Dan -- very good. 4 stars.

- Genesis with Peter Gabriel -- 4 to 4.5 stars.

- Cream -- 3 to 3.5 stars.

- Beatles - 3 stars.

- Rolling Stones - 3.5 stars.

- Led Zeppelin - 4 to 4.5 stars

- Grateful Dead - 4 to 4.5.

 

my 2 cents :-)

 

 

My god, man; wait a minute. Does everyone on your list beat the biggest selling and, dare I say, the most loved and adored musical group in the history of our planet? Even the Carpenters? Don't get me wrong. I really liked the Carpenters but imho they don't come close to McCartney, Harrison or Lennon, not to mention the band as a whole. If Zeppelin is a 4 to 4.5 (out of a 1-5 scale?), who would you say is a perfect 5? It's all subjective and I mean no disrespect. Have a great evening.

[Gary.D.Olson]

He he - I did say it was subjective :-)

 

No one gets a perfect 5 -- ok maybe (just maybe) Miles Davis, but he wasn't a rock band :-)

 

I would agree Zeppelin is a 4.5 on a scale from 1 to 4.5

[Gary.D.Olson]

Sorry for the length. It really got away from me.

 

Like Paul R, most of my favorites are albums too (a tip of the hat to Brown Dirt Cowboy, and add Yell'r Brick Road).

 

These are all 5's imho

 

Abbey Road

Peter Gabriel "So"

Michael Jackson "Bad" & Thriller"

Annie Lennox "Diva"

B52's "B52's" & "Whammy"

Brian Ferry "Bête Noire"

Chicago "17" & "Greatest Hits"

The Cult "Sonic Temple"

Def Leppard "Pyromania" & "Hysteria"

Duran Duran "Notorious", "Wedding", "All You Need Is Now"

Eagles "One of these Nights" & "Hell Freezes Over"

Elton John (above)

Heart "Little Queen" (Ann was the greatest female rock singer of all time)

INXS "Kick" & "Listen Like Thieves"

John Lennon "Double Fantasy"

Foreigner "4"

Kansas "Leftoverture" & "Masque"

Houses of the Holy, II, III, Physical Graffiti, Presence

Michael Hedges "Taproot"

Missing Persons "Spring Session M"

The Motels "All Four One" & "Little Robbers"

Peter Frampton "Comes Alive" (Yeah, but there's a reason everyone had it)

Pink Floyd "DSOTM", "Wishing You Were Here"

Roxy Music "Avalon"

Simon & Garfunkel "Bridge over Troubled Water"

Tears for Fears (all)

U2 "War" & "Unforgettable Fire"

Ultravox "Quartet"

Yes "Yessongs"

Van Halen "Van Halen", "1984" & "5150"

Talking Heads "Little Creatures"

[Gary.D.Olson]

Frankly, I see no evidence against this title being the pinnacle of American rock musik.

 

Nothing before or since, has been able to equal it.

 

Enjoy:

 

 

 

Addendum:

I've been searching for a legitimate multi-channel SA-CD of this title for several years, without much success. Any suggestions as to where I might find one?

 

BTW, no dodgy, rip-off versions from Japan, please.

 

 

Steve Gadd... He was the Ice Man of percussion. His single requirement when crafting music: perfection, that's all.

[Gary.D.Olson]

All the bands mentioned were extremely white. Not much groove, soul. Today's equivalent of music heard through a laptop with no DAC......

 

Sent from my SM-T810 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

 

Granted, Michael Jackson was arguably white.

[Gary.D.Olson]

LOL. Kindly excuse my transgressions.

 

BTW,

Avalon + True + Time After Time = Brilliant.

Every Breath You Take = Classic. But, for slow dancing? Hmmm.

 

So, perhaps we can switch on the spots & strobes, up the tempo?

 

Songs that inspired/inspires(?) athletic exploits on 80-esque dance floors:

Anyone wants to go first?

 

Billy Idol "White Wedding" & "Dancing With Myself". "Mony Mony" too.

[Gary.D.Olson]

1. I think it comes down to the difference between the Beatles and the Monkees. There are groups that pioneered their own original sound, and then there are "follow on" groups that repeat a certain sound, usually in a commercialized, watered down and formulaic fashion. There are groups which produced a single song on an album that was geared toward mainstream radio, and there are groups whose entire essence was mainstream.

 

2. Yes

 

3. Rap/Hip Hop which I didn't initially understand, nor appreciate, also perhaps the Carpenters who did in fact have their own unique sound (though I don't frequently play)

 

 

I think you're as right as anyone else, but I do have one big problem: 16 year-olds are hardly qualified to know what's truly original. Everything was original to me when I was a kid.

 

And I vehemently disagree with the notion that music written with commercial success in mind is automatically excluded as a high art form. Originality is perhaps the highest form, but hardly the only one worthy of our time. I have an equal appreciation for the originality of John Lennon's music as for the pop material Paul McCartney wrote (John & Paul have always been to me what "Beatles vs Monkeys" are as described in your above post).

 

I still despise Rap & Hip Hop, but that's partially because I'm old. I'm sure it takes talent to write that cra... music. I must, however, admit I've developed quite an appreciation for Disco despite an extreme hatred of it in the 70's, and I mean EXTREME HATRED. I love the Bee Gees in particular (tightening belt to Ludicrous hole).

[Gary.D.Olson]

Coincidence and irony. The first time I visit CA in a very long time happens to be mere hours after someone resurrect this thread. I haven't been here in a long time because I've been playing on stage again, and with a classic rock cover band. Journey, Styx, Toto, Tom Petty, Dire Straits, Chicago, Boz Scaggs, Eagles, Robert Palmer, CCR, Van Morrison, Beatles, KC & the Sunshine Band, Queen, Santana, Kenny Loggins, Lynyrd Skynyrd, 38 Special, John Cougar, The Cars, Doobie Brothers, Bon Jovi, Wild Cherry, Steve Miller, Billy Idol, Earth, Wind & Fire, ZZ Top, Bryan Adams, Eddie Money, Hall & Oats, etc. Sounds like a Ronco record in the making. Nobody has attempted lifting anyone up by the underwear so far, though after hearing some of these songs I haven't quite decided if that's a step forward or not.

[Gary.D.Olson]

I bought that record and liked the tunes. Also thought it sounded pretty good.