Was Journey, Foreigner, etc Bad?

[Gary.D.Olson]

Yesterday on the interweb, I happened upon a live video of Foreigner from a 1985 concert, and was absolutely floored by their phenomenal performance. When it ended, my first thought was "they don't make them like that anymore" (these days, "vocalists" lip-sync on stage and use pitch correction in the studio. Lou Gramm? Not so much.). My second thought was an old memory of being lifted up by my underwear because I liked Foreigner.

 

Arena Rock, Commercial Rock, Boardroom Rock, The Carpenters, whatever you call it; I have two, no, three questions for those of you who openly or mentally ridiculed guys like me for buying Foreigner "Four", Journey "Escape", or Kansas "Leftoverture":

 

1. What was it about these bands you found distasteful?

 

2. Do you still believe the ridicule was warranted or fair?

 

3. Do you now like any music you ridiculed in your youth?

[AlainGr]

They have filled my listening times a long time ago. At home, in the car, through LPs and cassettes. I got some of their music on CD and still listen to them from time to time. They still rock in my mind

[mav52]

Still like them to this day

[christopher3393]

So, to rephrase: under what, if any, historical-social-cultural conditions can certain specifiable expressions of musical taste be deemed "wedgie-worthy"?

[Paul R]

Kids can just be flat out mean, which is, I suspect, what you ran into. Who has time to deal with mean people when there is so much good music to listen to?

 

I like all of those, with the Carpenters, Foreigner, Journey, and Kansas definitely being favorites from my younger days, along with the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Charlie Daniels, and more.

[wgscott]

I listened to some "Kansas" on spotify the other day. I am hoping it can't be traced back to me. I closed all the windows first so the neighbors wouldn't hear it. I liked them briefly in college until it was pointed out to me they were a bunch of evangelical born-again Christians. Oy vey!

[Gary.D.Olson]

So, to rephrase: under what, if any, historical-social-cultural conditions can certain specifiable expressions of musical taste be deemed "wedgie-worthy"?

 

What indeed.

[Gary.D.Olson]

I listened to some "Kansas" on spotify the other day. I am hoping it can't be traced back to me. I closed all the windows first so the neighbors wouldn't hear it. I liked them briefly in college until it was pointed out to me they were a bunch of evangelical born-again Christians. Oy vey!

 

I believe that was only Livgren & Hope, and just before John Elefante joined.

[christopher3393]

What indeed.

 

Probably none.

[whoozwah]

music nerds don't like anything that's popular. It stems from a out of balance ego that drives them to feel better about themselves by putting others down for listening to music that is well liked by many while they listen to "underground" bands that only 4 people have even heard of. It's just hipster garbage and it always has been. It has nothing to do with the music itself and more to do with the saturation rate of X band's popularity among said out-of-balance-ego-music-nerd's peer group.

[mansr]

So, to rephrase: under what, if any, historical-social-cultural conditions can certain specifiable expressions of musical taste be deemed "wedgie-worthy"?

Justin Bieber? Oh right, you said music. Never mind then.

[firedog]

Yesterday on the interweb, I happened upon a live video of Foreigner from a 1985 concert, and was absolutely floored by their phenomenal performance. When it ended, my first thought was "they don't make them like that anymore" (these days, "vocalists" lip-sync on stage and use pitch correction in the studio. Lou Gramm? Not so much.). My second thought was an old memory of being lifted up by my underwear because I liked Foreigner.

 

Arena Rock, Commercial Rock, Boardroom Rock, The Carpenters, whatever you call it; I have two, no, three questions for those of you who openly or mentally ridiculed guys like me for buying Foreigner "Four", Journey "Escape", or Kansas "Leftoverture":

 

1. What was it about these bands you found distasteful?

 

2. Do you still believe the ridicule was warranted or fair?

 

3. Do you now like any music you ridiculed in your youth?

 

As a generality, those bands tended to be less original and more derivative than some of the more acceptable bands perceived as "artists". A little more corporate driven and a little more going "just for the money". (And before some of you jump on my case for writing this, go back and read interviews with some of the band members where they confirm this about their own bands and their reasons for being in them.)

 

Doesn't mean they made bad music or weren't talented. The members of Foreigner, for example, were very talented musicians some of whom had made their names in more "artistic" bands before Foreigner. Not surprising that you found their live performance impressive, as they were more than capable of giving a high level performance solely on the basis of their performing ability.

 

In any case, the distance between a band branded as "commercial" and one accepted as "artistic" in the pop/rock world is often very small, and more a matter of image/perception than reality.

 

I think the fact that a lot of the music your mention has basically been forgotten since then tells us something. Other music is more remembered, more listened to by younger listeners, and more referred to as influential by later musicians.

 

Do I like those bands now? Not really. Do I think the music should be ridiculed? No.

[eintom]

i saw Foreigner live in 1985 (Rock am Ring - Germany) and liked it.

today i think, Foreigner is a bit 1985 ;-)

[christopher3393]

Justin Bieber? Oh right, you said music. Never mind then.

 

tempting

[findog3103]

Going to college in the late 80s, I found FM radio stifling once I found out how much music there was out there that I liked. I become frustrated when I would call the local rock station to play R.E.M., Replacements, New Order or the Smiths to name a few and have the DJ being rude to me. I didn't dislike foreigner or the like but there was so much great music being denied by corporate radio.

[wgscott]

[anji12305]

Going to college in the late 80s, I found FM radio stifling once I found out how much music there was out there that I liked. I become frustrated when I would call the local rock station to play R.E.M., Replacements, New Order or the Smiths to name a few and have the DJ being rude to me. I didn't dislike foreigner or the like but there was so much great music being denied by corporate radio.

It's the overexpose that lead to fatigue.

We'll still sing along with some of those anodyne pop hits until we hear ourselves.

 

Writing hooks isn't easy, and now it takes a modern version of Tin Pan alley to keep the dancing puppets busy.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/10/hit-charade

 

Mick Jones had a hand in most of their hits.

Same cannot be said of most atop the pop charts, today.

 

Great songs are recorded, every day but they're not the sort of thing that had broad appeal.

 

Most art is edgy, and an affront to sensibilities, and will likely remain so.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[NOMBEDES]

I don't have the exact quote, but did not Bob Dylan once opine that "its all music" and Neil Young, once heckled that " it all sounds the same" replied...."it is the same song" not to mention Mick and the lads, proclaiming it's only Rock and Roll, but I like it.

[Nikhil]

Yesterday on the interweb, I happened upon a live video of Foreigner from a 1985 concert, and was absolutely floored by their phenomenal performance. When it ended, my first thought was "they don't make them like that anymore" (these days, "vocalists" lip-sync on stage and use pitch correction in the studio. Lou Gramm? Not so much.). My second thought was an old memory of being lifted up by my underwear because I liked Foreigner.

 

LOL! To be honest I find myself in the same boat. I really like the old 80's music. Recently I was just looking up soundtracks from movies like "Footloose", "Flashdance", "Top Gun", etc. That music was just great. It's like comfort food for me now.

 

 

I like all of those, with the Carpenters, Foreigner, Journey, and Kansas definitely being favorites from my younger days, along with the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Charlie Daniels, and more.

 

All great music there Paul. Karen Carpenter's voice is still among my all time greats. Some of the licks that Foreigner came up with are just burned into my sub conscious. The Eagles might just be one of the greatest ever. Fleetwood Mac's music is still fresh as it was all those years ago. Brilliant stuff!

[Gary.D.Olson]

LOL! To be honest I find myself in the same boat. I really like the old 80's music. Recently I was just looking up soundtracks from movies like "Footloose", "Flashdance", "Top Gun", etc. That music was just great. It's like comfort food for me now.

 

 

 

 

All great music there Paul. Karen Carpenter's voice is still among my all time greats. Some of the licks that Foreigner came up with are just burned into my sub conscious. The Eagles might just be one of the greatest ever. Fleetwood Mac's music is still fresh as it was all those years ago. Brilliant stuff!

 

I suspect if you ask 10 people to name corporate rock bands you'd get 11 answers. I've never heard Eagles or Fleetwood Mac accused, but affirmative on Asia, REO Speedwagon, Supertramp & Steely Dan (vehemently disagree here - these guys were fabulous and very original imho).

[NOMBEDES]

I suspect if you ask 10 people to name corporate rock bands you'd get 11 answers. I've never heard Eagles or Fleetwood Mac accused, but affirmative on Asia, REO Speedwagon, Supertramp & Steely Dan (vehemently disagree here - these guys were fabulous and very original imho).

 

+1 On Steely Dan, very inventive. In re Fleetwood Mac, I play the "then play on" album often - good stuff.

[esldude]

Let me see, Foreigner..................YUCK.

 

Journey, okay someone has some good taste (especially my girl friends at the time).

 

Oh yeah, real rock with Kansas Left Overture.

 

One thing that struck me was where people landed on the topic of Kiss as an alleged band.

 

Those a couple years older than me hated them with a passion (as do I). And could explain eloquently why. If you disagreed it could only be that you were a buffoon (quite naturally).

 

Those a couple years younger loved them by and large and would not listen to reason or eloquence.

 

Those of my age were split near 50/50 meaning half of people my age were wrong. And I was wrong once too. Not so much later many my age disliked AC/DC as did I at first. Then later in life I gave them a fresh listen and decided while not original rockers (and what is fully original) they were a respectable rock band with the proper DNA. I may have been influenced by the girl friend I met because I made comment about her AC/DC T-shirt. Suddenly took a shine to them. Same with Guns N Roses though I think they became prima donnas awfully quick thanks to their success.

 

I guess I agree with Duke Ellington in the end," There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind ..."

[mrvco]

Unless you were content with playing high school gymnasiums, local bars and frat parties if you were in/near a college town, signing with a record label and playing by their rules was still the only real path forward at that time. Other than being over played on radio and MTV, these were (are) both legit bands and I can't fault them for following the path to commercial success.

 

Having grown up in a small, rural town that lacked cultural diversity, the wedgie-anything (music, clothes, hairstyles, etc.) was anything different that could be identified and singled out for ridicule.

[duxservit]

It's all very subjective and depends on tastes, age, etc. When I look at bands - in the past and today - I look for (a) originality ("signature sound") in the context of was around then; (b) skills in arrangement; © individual player skills.

 

Out of 5 stars, these are some of the bands from 1970s and 1980s:

 

- Foreigner and Journey are a bit light on all three aspects. 2 stars.

- Carpenters are good. 3 or 4 stars.

- Steely Dan -- very good. 4 stars.

- Genesis with Peter Gabriel -- 4 to 4.5 stars.

- Cream -- 3 to 3.5 stars.

- Beatles - 3 stars.

- Rolling Stones - 3.5 stars.

- Led Zeppelin - 4 to 4.5 stars

- Grateful Dead - 4 to 4.5.

 

my 2 cents :-)

[Gary.D.Olson]

It's all very subjective and depends on tastes, age, etc. When I look at bands - in the past and today - I look for (a) originality ("signature sound") in the context of was around then; (b) skills in arrangement; © individual player skills.

 

Out of 5 stars, these are some of the bands from 1970s and 1980s:

 

- Foreigner and Journey are a bit light on all three aspects. 2 stars.

- Carpenters are good. 3 or 4 stars.

- Steely Dan -- very good. 4 stars.

- Genesis with Peter Gabriel -- 4 to 4.5 stars.

- Cream -- 3 to 3.5 stars.

- Beatles - 3 stars.

- Rolling Stones - 3.5 stars.

- Led Zeppelin - 4 to 4.5 stars

- Grateful Dead - 4 to 4.5.

 

my 2 cents :-)

 

 

My god, man; wait a minute. Does everyone on your list beat the biggest selling and, dare I say, the most loved and adored musical group in the history of our planet? Even the Carpenters? Don't get me wrong. I really liked the Carpenters but imho they don't come close to McCartney, Harrison or Lennon, not to mention the band as a whole. If Zeppelin is a 4 to 4.5 (out of a 1-5 scale?), who would you say is a perfect 5? It's all subjective and I mean no disrespect. Have a great evening.