SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

[himey]

No, it won't. His is about SACDs. To rip a Blu-ray, IIRC, make an ISO image with MakeMKV in your computer (optical drive required) and then extract the audio files with DVD Audio Extractor ($).

 

Audiomuxer will extract the audio from a bluray, and it's free...

[good sound]

Audiomuxer will extract the audio from a bluray, and it's free...

 

Yes, but you will still need a Blu-ray optical drive, which I do not have. I was hoping there was some way to rip the Blu-ray audio from the Oppo.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Yes, but you will still need a Blu-ray optical drive, which I do not have. I was hoping there was some way to rip the Blu-ray audio from the Oppo.

 

Nope.

 

An internal BD drive in a PC tower is under $50. MakeMKV is free. And, there is player software that will play the MKVs. But, they are not chapterized and there is no menu for individual "tracks" in any PC player software of note.

 

The only solution to that I have found for BD in hi rez is Audiomuxer, also free, which can convert hi rez to FLAC, chapter by chapter = track by track. Most any player software will then handle the FLAC as individual tracks.

 

DVD Audio Extractor was of no use for the hi rez soundtrack on BDs, the last time I looked.

[himey]

Nope.

 

An internal BD drive in a PC tower is under $50. MakeMKV is free. And, there is player software that will play the MKVs. But, they are not chapterized and there is no menu for individual "tracks" in any PC player software of note.

 

The only solution to that I have found for BD in hi rez is Audiomuxer, also free, which can convert hi rez to FLAC, chapter by chapter = track by track. Most any player software will then handle the FLAC as individual tracks.

 

DVD Audio Extractor was of no use for the hi rez soundtrack on BDs, the last time I looked.

 

I paid $33 for mine and it also burns blurays. The recordable media is cheap now too.

[himey]

Yes, but you will still need a Blu-ray optical drive, which I do not have. I was hoping there was some way to rip the Blu-ray audio from the Oppo.

 

That would be nice but bluray drives are cheap. About the price of one quality SACD. This is a great time to use a PC for ALL music needs. My Oppo mostly just collects dust.

[JediJoker]

DVD Audio Extractor was of no use for the hi rez soundtrack on BDs, the last time I looked.

That must have been a while ago. If it's DTS-HD MA, you have to jump through some hoops, but it will get the job done using these steps on a Mac. If it's just LPCM, the process should be the second 2-step one I mentioned at the end of the post. Not sure about Dolby TrueHD.

[ted_b]

That must have been a while ago. If it's DTS-HD MA, you have to jump through some hoops, but it will get the job done using these steps on a Mac. If it's just LPCM, the process should be the second 2-step one I mentioned at the end of the post. Not sure about Dolby TrueHD.

 

Yes, DVDAE works fine (as long as the disc is first decrypted) and we have a few well-attended threads on this already. BUT...please move our BluRay ripping discussions there. They have nothing to do with this thread. Thanks.

[himey]

Yes, DVDAE works fine (as long as the disc is first decrypted) and we have a few well-attended threads on this already. BUT...please move our BluRay ripping discussions there. They have nothing to do with this thread. Thanks.

 

Just to be fair, someone was asking if this process worked with blurays.

 

Are you still using the 5.1 Sony ES preamp for multichannel stuff?

[ted_b]

Just to be fair, someone was asking if this process worked with blurays.

 

Are you still using the 5.1 Sony ES preamp for multichannel stuff?

 

Yes, I was hoping the initial answer would be a link to the BluRay ripping threads, but it went on and was teetering on major tangents.

 

No, I now use direct outputs from my exaSound, and use it's internal volume and channel balancing (from ESS). I am amazed at both the clarity and timbre, regardless of theoretical weakness of digital volume controls.

[kevin gilmore]

Chris Gestrin Stillpoint Songlines Records

 

iso rips fine, I did it twice

 

on the second track arithmetic decoding error in frame 18162

 

then rips the rest of it fine

 

any ideas

[grill]

Chris Gestrin Stillpoint Songlines Records

 

iso rips fine, I did it twice

 

on the second track arithmetic decoding error in frame 18162

 

then rips the rest of it fine

 

any ideas

 

I think it's a poorly authored disc. Sometimes this causes no big problems (if any) in listening, ripping and extracting.

[pcg]

Chris Gestrin Stillpoint Songlines Records iso rips fine, I did it twice

on the second track arithmetic decoding error in frame 18162 then rips the rest of it fine any ideas

 

I burned around 225 ISO's without any problems. When converting the ISO to DSF files I had one disc (Beck's Sea Change) get an arithmetic error on track 4 on the multichannel DSF creation. Other than that I had no issues. I haven't tried to play the track to see what happens with it.

 

I would be interested in any suggestions, but it wasn't a huge deal for me.

 

And again thanks to everyone in this thread for bringing this concept to light and providing helpful comments.

 

The one thing I did find almost immediately is that the folders for the ISO rip and ISO to DSF conversion need to be on the root. I had a problem with file names being too long if that approach wasn't used.

[forester]

... the folders for the ISO rip and ISO to DSF conversion need to be on the root. I had a problem with file names being too long if that approach wasn't used... I haven't tried to play the track to see what happens with it.

 

I've had no problem on Windows 10 with an NTFS SSD ripping the ISO to folders nested 3 and 4 levels deep.

 

I listen to each ISO after it has been ripped. So far, after a couple dozen rips, I have had 2 repeatable audio "clicks" with a lot of high-frequency energy. I re-ripped both SACDs and the clicks were gone. This process seems to be less than perfect, so ultimately we must listen to the rips before archiving them.

[JediJoker]

I listen to each ISO after it has been ripped. So far, after a couple dozen rips, I have had 2 repeatable audio "clicks" with a lot of high-frequency energy. I re-ripped both SACDs and the clicks were gone. This process seems to be less than perfect, so ultimately we must listen to the rips before archiving them.

I think the rips are "perfect" insofar as there is no loss of information from the player's buffer to the destination of the rip. That is to say, if there are uncorrected disc read errors, they will be present in the rip as well.

[SpotOn]

I've had no problem on Windows 10 with an NTFS SSD ripping the ISO to folders nested 3 and 4 levels deep.

 

I listen to each ISO after it has been ripped. So far, after a couple dozen rips, I have had 2 repeatable audio "clicks" with a lot of high-frequency energy. I re-ripped both SACDs and the clicks were gone. This process seems to be less than perfect, so ultimately we must listen to the rips before archiving them.

 

 

Did you compare checksums between the defective .iso and the re-ripped clean .iso? I would be very interested to see if they were different.

 

I was just thinking that it would be nice if sacd_extract offered an option to do a rip and verify (rip the SACD twice), to help notify users of discs that might be damaged, poorly manufactured, etc. Although admittedly I am not very familiar with SACD specifications. Maybe there is enough error checking on the disc itself that this is not really warranted (unlike when ripping CDs).

 

Does anyone know what error checking is provided or reported to the user with sacd_extract?

[audiventory]

I was just thinking that it would be nice if sacd_extract offered an option to do a rip and verify (rip the SACD twice), to help notify users of discs that might be damaged, poorly manufactured, etc. Although admittedly I am not very familiar with SACD specifications. Maybe there is enough error checking on the disc itself that this is not really warranted (unlike when ripping CDs).

 

Does anyone know what error checking is provided or reported to the user with sacd_extract?

 

sacd_extract is not ripping utility. It get ripped ISO to input and extract it to other DSD formats only.

 

There is no sense to apply extract_extract to ISO twice.

 

Maybe there is enough error checking on the disc itself that this is not really warranted (unlike when ripping CDs).

 

I'm not expert in CD coding, but I suppose, any way of checking errors of CD Audio don’t give 100% probability of error detection. Except we know CD's original binary content.

 

Did you compare checksums between the defective .iso and the re-ripped clean .iso? I would be very interested to see if they were different.

 

Checksum should be calculated by audio data only. Not for full file. Because any metadata difference will accounted too.

 

Alternative and direct way is extracting to dff/dsf for both ISOs and performing binary comparison.

[SpotOn]

sacd_extract is not ripping utility. It get ripped ISO to input and extract it to other DSD formats only.

 

My apologies if I have misunderstood something, but I believe people are using sacd_extract as the ripping utility with their Oppos or Pioneers. You select the SACD as your input and output to raw ISO. This can be done either via command line or using the Java ISO2DSD GUI, but either way the actual engine doing the work is sacd_extract.

 

If sacd_extract is the ripping utility, then how it handles errors and error reporting during ripping is important.

 

Please correct me if I am completely out of touch here.

[audiventory]

but either way the actual engine doing the work is sacd_extract.

 

Absolutelly, sacd_extract.exe and sacd_extract is ISO image extracting engine for Windows, Mac OS X and Linux. Linux supported for some branches.

 

As ripping utility, I meant utility that read optical disk. As far as I know, sacd_extract don't read disk directly via programming interface of optical device driver.

 

Software, that called as "CD ripping software", as example, use programming interface of optical-device-driver and read raw audio and error marker streams.

 

However error stream is calculated into optical device. And programming interface give ready results of this calculations.

 

Also for ripping safety used several other tricks.

 

I suppose, SACD ripping have same algorithm. And we should read error stream directly in the software/firmware that read optical device. If I correct understand, it is ripping daemon into the player.

[forester]

Did you compare checksums between the defective .iso and the re-ripped clean .iso?

 

No, but I may start doing that if I still get audible clicks after trying a direct connection (no Ethernet switch) between the Oppo and my computer.

[SpotOn]

Absolutelly, sacd_extract.exe and sacd_extract is ISO image extracting engine for Windows, Mac OS X and Linux. Linux supported for some branches.

 

As ripping utility, I meant utility that read optical disk. As far as I know, sacd_extract don't read disk directly via programming interface of optical device driver.

 

Software, that called as "CD ripping software", as example, use programming interface of optical-device-driver and read raw audio and error marker streams.

 

However error stream is calculated into optical device. And programming interface give ready results of this calculations.

 

Also for ripping safety used several other tricks.

 

I suppose, SACD ripping have same algorithm. And we should read error stream directly in the software/firmware that read optical device. If I correct understand, it is ripping daemon into the player.

 

OK, I think I understand now!

 

So unlike common CD ripping software, sacd_extract does not have access to the raw data streams on the SACD disc, but rather is simply a background process that "captures" the outputted data from the device (as read from the player's buffer). The quality and error checking of the extraction is, therefore, completely dependent on the hardware/firmware routines of the Oppo, Pioneer, or PS3 device and is in no way handled by sacd_extract.

 

This is a very helpful distinction, thank you for explaining it to me!

 

 

No, but I may start doing that if I still get audible clicks after trying a direct connection (no Ethernet switch) between the Oppo and my computer.

 

Yes if some rips are producing errors, it sounds like a good course of action might be to extract all SACDs to .iso twice and then compare checksums of the entire .iso file (before modifying the .iso in anyway). If there is a bad disc (a disc that the player is having trouble reading) and the player is spewing out garbage data, at least this would alert the user to this fact. Of course this would not alert the user to reproducible errors, but without an accururip database for SACD .iso files, this might be the best we can do at the moment.

 

Please do let us know if switching to a direct connection improves your rips. I have not read a lot of reports of audio "clicks" when playing SACDs using an Oppo player, so it seems odd there would be clicks on an extraction. So perhaps the Ethernet switch is a problem indeed. Or perhaps SACD extraction using sacd_extract forces the Oppo to read data from the SACD at a higher spin rate than the Oppo player normally would for regular SACD playback? And perhaps this decreases the Oppo's SACD read quality? No idea if this is even true, just speculating on other possible sources that may lead to errors during extraction.

 

[forester]

Please do let us know if switching to a direct connection improves your rips.... Perhaps using sacd_extract forces the Oppo to read data from the SACD at a higher spin rate than the Oppo player normally would for regular SACD playback?[/color]

 

I will keep you all posted with my progress. Please keep in mind that what I have been hearing is not the small "ticks" that occurred between tracks with early Oppo firmware (in the BDP-83). Rather it is a single loud "pop" in the middle of the music.

 

Yes, reading an 80-minute SACD in just over 20 minutes seems to imply a ripping speed of almost 4x.

[JediJoker]

Yes, reading an 80-minute SACD in just over 20 minutes seems to imply a ripping speed of almost 4x.

Sure, but I would guess that the Oppo usually spins discs at at least 2x in order to account for error correction.

[RAM]

Hi everybody, first of all excuse my English because is not my language, second , since it's the first time in my life that I am writing on a forum , please forgive me if I by mistake break some of the rules .

I would like to thanks the genius how made (finally after almost 20 years!)this sacd ripping so easy and all the people of the forum for the clear explanations they give us.

Here's my experience:

I give up buying an oppo Eu103d ( in Europe is very expensive almost double the Us price! So I have to buy it in England thanks to the weakness of the pound to save a little bit of money)

I have made my first rip of a sacd with my oppo connected to my network and a second rip ,same sacd, with the oppo directly connected to my windows 10 PC via a very short (25cm,less than a foot) cat 6 shielded crossover cable.

I am very unhappy to report that the second rip sound better and extremely similar to the sacd played with the oppo connected via monster1000 HDMI cable to my Bryston bda 3 dac ,while the first rip sound a little bit out of focus and dynamically softened in comparison

[CatManDo]

I am very unhappy to report that the second rip sound better and extremely similar to the sacd played with the oppo connected via monster1000 HDMI cable to my Bryston bda 3 dac ,while the first rip sound a little bit out of focus and dynamically softened in comparison

 

Thanks for your input, I think your first forum post and your english are perfectly fine

 

But I have some doubts about the results of your listening test. It would mean the data have been degraded while being transported over the network vs the direct connection, as the other factors are the same (same extraction software, same SACD drive). I find that very unlikely. Can you do a blind test to be sure?

[greynolds]

Thanks for your input, I think your first forum post and your english are perfectly fine

 

But I have some doubts about the results of your listening test. It would mean the data have been degraded while being transported over the network vs the direct connection, as the other factors are the same (same extraction software, same SACD drive). I find that very unlikely. Can you do a blind test to be sure?

Or better yet, do a binary comparison of the ISO files...