SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

[miksi]

Sony s590 arrived today … ripped my first sacd using server method...

[MrEWhite]

Ripped four SACDs with a Sony BDP-BX510 successfully using the sleep method.

[new_media]

On 8/2/2018 at 10:05 PM, Ralf11 said:

ok, does the BDP-80fd work as easily to rip SACDs?

 

On 8/2/2018 at 10:31 PM, TODDCA said:

 

Mine was easy to get working.

 

Same here. Dead simple if you follow the directions in this thread. I found a new BDP-80FD on Amazon for $230 less than a month ago.

[Chiefbrodie]

Thanks for your responses but it still doesn't help me, I'll try again soon with a clearer head. Do I open any files that are on the USB stick plugged into my bluray player? When I boot it up the tray opens I pop the disc in but its from here I'm falling down, when using dsd2iso it can't connect and it's this section I'm having issues with I know I'm not far off. Cheers. 

[miksi]

I'm using sleep server method on my sony. With usb flash mounted turn off player and it will go to sleep. Then you can start sonore  iso2dsd app on PC and select server method with ip address of your player and then select execute. Player should be awaken and begin ripping.

From earlier post you have a download link of Autoscript which folder should reside on root if your flash drive. Important is that you should always power of your player when insert new disk to rip, not eject button and this is for sony.

[new_media]

21 minutes ago, Chiefbrodie said:

Thanks for your responses but it still doesn't help me, I'll try again soon with a clearer head. Do I open any files that are on the USB stick plugged into my bluray player? When I boot it up the tray opens I pop the disc in but its from here I'm falling down, when using dsd2iso it can't connect and it's this section I'm having issues with I know I'm not far off. Cheers. 

 

Here are step-by-step directions for the Pioneer BDP-80fd that I copied from one of the links in this thread. I printed them out so that I would have them handy when I was setting up my player. Should be exactly the same procedure for the 160.

 

 

SACD Image Creation Process for Pioneer BDP-80FD.txt

[Chiefbrodie]

I did execute but get error can't connect message, I'll try again tomorrow when I get chance thanks again. 

[Chiefbrodie]

Thanks for the link I'll try again tomorrow and get back to you. 

[mccp]

Ripped SACD with a Sony BDP-S590 successfully using the sleep method..

 

[Chiefbrodie]

10 hours ago, miksi said:

I'm using sleep server method on my sony. With usb flash mounted turn off player and it will go to sleep. Then you can start sonore  iso2dsd app on PC and select server method with ip address of your player and then select execute. Player should be awaken and begin ripping.

From earlier post you have a download link of Autoscript which folder should reside on root if your flash drive. Important is that you should always power of your player when insert new disk to rip, not eject button and this is for sony.

I have the files in the correct place, my knowledge and understanding using command prompts and scripts are limited but I'll figure it. I'm getting a unable to connect message when hitting execute, maybe I'm typing something incorrectly in the command window. I appreciate all advise and I'll try once home this evening. 

[Chiefbrodie]

10 hours ago, new_media said:

 

Here are step-by-step directions for the Pioneer BDP-80fd that I copied from one of the links in this thread. I printed them out so that I would have them handy when I was setting up my player. Should be exactly the same procedure for the 160.

 

 

SACD Image Creation Process for Pioneer BDP-80FD.txt

Thanks for your time I do have this printed out and have tried to follow but i think I'm coming unstuck using the command prompt (my knowledge and use of this function are limited) will try again this evening, thanks for your time again. 

[Chiefbrodie]

On 8/5/2018 at 9:05 PM, new_media said:

 

Here are step-by-step directions for the Pioneer BDP-80fd that I copied from one of the links in this thread. I printed them out so that I would have them handy when I was setting up my player. Should be exactly the same procedure for the 160.

 

 

SACD Image Creation Process for Pioneer BDP-80FD.txt

 

On 8/5/2018 at 9:05 PM, new_media said:

 

Here are step-by-step directions for the Pioneer BDP-80fd that I copied from one of the links in this thread. I printed them out so that I would have them handy when I was setting up my player. Should be exactly the same procedure for the 160.

 

 

SACD Image Creation Process for Pioneer BDP-80FD.txt

Hi there again I have followed this procedure this evening and have tried many times but it never works I've also tried the server method using sonore iso2dsd but same issue it never works. When using the command prompt method the window opens to this C:\users\daniel>  (I then type) (the S is the folder on the root windows) S.\sacd_extract - I (bluray ip address) :2002 - P - I then hit enter but here is where its failing to find/execute or connect to anything, when using sonore server method it errors can't connect to bluray ip address...... 

[new_media]

Others would probably me more helpful than I with networking problems. Are you sure that the Blu-ray player has a static IP address and you can see it on your network?

[himey]

On 5/5/2018 at 12:35 PM, pl_svn said:

ignore quote

 

Make sure your 80FD actually plays the SACD layer of discs. Earlier reports in this thread indicated that some people have had issues with the player. Mine works fine and was bought second hand.

 

Also, if the SACD portion of the disc does indeed play fine, bypass the router and connect the LAN of the player directly to the PC. You should have an icon in your network. Get the IP from the properties, right clicking on the icon. Put that info into ISO2DSD.

[pabe12]

I also think you’re not precise enough when using the command line method; remember that case and spaces are extremely important!

 

Your command should look like the one listed under step 7 in the text file:

.\sacd_extract -i {BDP_IP_ADDRESS}:2002 -P -I

Note that the first i is lower case, and there’s no space between the - and the i; also there’s no space between the IP address and the :2002.

[Chiefbrodie]

Thank you to all you kind people in tyring to help me trouble shoot my issue. So firstly my bluray players ip address is set at auto and the ip address its been assigned has remained the same throughout my efforts so in theory it should work as when the bluray is powered on its visible on my network when it's off its not visible. (maybe setting a static ip address would help? 

Secondly my player plays tge sacd layer of the disc no problem but I'll definitely try connecting to the bluray directly instead of through the router and see if that helps. 

Thirdly I think my command prompts are correct I've copied exactly as seen in the description with lower case and spaces etc but will try again this evening once home, so when I open the command prompt window it reads C:users\daniel>

At this point I type the letter S which is the folder where I placed the executable file to extract, then type the command with my ip address and hit enter so it looks something like this 

C:\users\daniel>S.\sacd_extract i - 192.168.0.17:2002 - P - I 

Then I hit enter does this look correct? 

Kind regards 

 

[Chiefbrodie]

2 hours ago, Chiefbrodie said:

Thank you to all you kind people in tyring to help me trouble shoot my issue. So firstly my bluray players ip address is set at auto and the ip address its been assigned has remained the same throughout my efforts so in theory it should work as when the bluray is powered on its visible on my network when it's off its not visible. (maybe setting a static ip address would help? 

Secondly my player plays tge sacd layer of the disc no problem but I'll definitely try connecting to the bluray directly instead of through the router and see if that helps. 

Thirdly I think my command prompts are correct I've copied exactly as seen in the description with lower case and spaces etc but will try again this evening once home, so when I open the command prompt window it reads C:users\daniel>

At this point I type the letter S which is the folder where I placed the executable file to extract, then type the command with my ip address and hit enter so it looks something like this 

C:\users\daniel>S.\sacd_extract i - 192.168.0.17:2002 - P - I 

Then I hit enter does this look correct? 

Kind regards 

 

Just to add the software version of my bpd 160 is version 01.06

[Ravelyn]

I  am not the expert here on this issue, but just looking at what you typed, it does not look to me like the sample in the preceding post. Maybe it's just the font, or maybe there's some sort of auto-correction that's adding spaces. But, I copied the command line from your post, pasted it into a text editor and changed the font to Courier (a mono-space font) so I could more easily see where the spaces are. From what I saw:  (1) you have the dash after the lower case "i" instead of before it; (2) assuming you accidentally reversed those two, there would still be a space between the dash and "i" that doesn't belong there; 3) there is also a space between the dash and the letter "P" that should not be there; and 4) likewise, there is an incorrect space between the dash and the letter "I" 

 

Yours is on top; the one posted by pabe12 is on the bottom (with your IP address inserted).

.\sacd_extract i - 192.168.0.17:2002 - P - I 
.\sacd_extract -i 192.168.0.17:2002 -P -I

 I hope I'm not off the mark on this--if so I apologize--but that is what I noticed.

[Chiefbrodie]

11 minutes ago, Ravelyn said:

I  am not the expert here on this issue, but just looking at what you typed, it does not look to me like the sample in the preceding post. Maybe it's just the font, or maybe there's some sort of auto-correction that's adding spaces. But, I copied the command line from your post, pasted it into a text editor and changed the font to Courier (a mono-space font) so I could more easily see where the spaces are. From what I saw:  (1) you have the dash after the lower case "i" instead of before it; (2) assuming you accidentally reversed those two, there would still be a space between the dash and "i" that doesn't belong there; 3) there is also a space between the dash and the letter "P" that should not be there; and 4) likewise, there is an incorrect space between the dash and the letter "I" 

 

Yours is on top; the one posted by pabe12 is on the bottom (with your IP address inserted).

.\sacd_extract i - 192.168.0.17:2002 - P - I 
.\sacd_extract -i 192.168.0.17:2002 -P -I

 I hope I'm not off the mark on this--if so I apologize--but that is what I noticed.

Thank you for your observations I'll try it this evening get home and feed back to you. Cheers 

[sefischer1]

1 hour ago, Ravelyn said:

I  am not the expert here on this issue, but just looking at what you typed, it does not look to me like the sample in the preceding post. Maybe it's just the font, or maybe there's some sort of auto-correction that's adding spaces. But, I copied the command line from your post, pasted it into a text editor and changed the font to Courier (a mono-space font) so I could more easily see where the spaces are. From what I saw:  (1) you have the dash after the lower case "i" instead of before it; (2) assuming you accidentally reversed those two, there would still be a space between the dash and "i" that doesn't belong there; 3) there is also a space between the dash and the letter "P" that should not be there; and 4) likewise, there is an incorrect space between the dash and the letter "I" 

 

Yours is on top; the one posted by pabe12 is on the bottom (with your IP address inserted).

.\sacd_extract i - 192.168.0.17:2002 - P - I 
.\sacd_extract -i 192.168.0.17:2002 -P -I

 I hope I'm not off the mark on this--if so I apologize--but that is what I noticed.

I'll make a couple of observations:

The 192.168.0.17:2002 is a specific IP address which will most likely not be correct for another user's network connected player. The :2002 part is a "port" number and would be the same for all users. The 192.168.0.17 is the IP address which is explicitly set, or more likely, assigned automatically by your network router.  Because you'll need to specify the correct address when doing the SACD rip, you should probably assign a fixed IP address to your disk player using it's setup menus. The correct address will depend on the your router's DHCP settings.  

These are based on a root network address such as, in this case, 192.168.0.1 (all other IP addresses would be the same except for the last number which would be greater than 1). DHCP allows you to define the lowest number for automatic assignment. I like to choose 100 so that I can manually assign fixed or static addresses below 100 and let DHCP auto assign addresses above 100. Using this example, I would set the disk player to a fixed address (using the disk player setup menus) to 192.168.0.60 and then remember that whenever needed, such as the setting of the above command instruction on your memory stick, or when attempting to communicate with your disk player over the network with a program like iso2dsd.exe from Sonore iso2dsd.jar (Java based program).

If you don't set a fixed address for your disk player and allow your player to get its' IP address automatically, you'll need to determine that address by examining your router connection tables every time you want to do an SACD rip. Clearly not very convenient.

 

[Chiefbrodie]

16 minutes ago, sefischer1 said:

I'll make a couple of observations:

The 192.168.0.17:2002 is a specific IP address which will most likely not be correct for another user's network connected player. The :2002 part is a "port" number and would be the same for all users. The 192.168.0.17 is the IP address which is explicitly set, or more likely, assigned automatically by your network router.  Because you'll need to specify the correct address when doing the SACD rip, you should probably assign a fixed IP address to your disk player using it's setup menus. The correct address will depend on the your router's DHCP settings.  

These are based on a root network address such as, in this case, 192.168.0.1 (all other IP addresses would be the same except for the last number which would be greater than 1). DHCP allows you to define the lowest number for automatic assignment. I like to choose 100 so that I can manually assign fixed or static addresses below 100 and let DHCP auto assign addresses above 100. Using this example, I would set the disk player to a fixed address (using the disk player setup menus) to 192.168.0.60 and then remember that whenever needed, such as the setting of the above command instruction on your memory stick, or when attempting to communicate with your disk player over the network with a program like iso2dsd.exe from Sonore iso2dsd.jar (Java based program).

If you don't set a fixed address for your disk player and allow your player to get its' IP address automatically, you'll need to determine that address by examining your router connection tables every time you want to do an SACD rip. Clearly not very convenient.

 

Thanks for the very detailed observation so I'll set a static ip address once home and see if that helps as for the directory indicators when I open the command prompt window on my pc it is a backward slash as opposed to forward and I copied the command instruction as it was with backward slash also. The above ip address is similar to mine and I used it as an example. I'll feed back later once I've set a static ip address and then take it from there. Cheers to all once again. 

[Chiefbrodie]

Hi there again so tonight I've tried all of your above suggestions and feedback but yet still nothing! This is driving me nuts... Maybe I nerd to re download all the relevant autoscript files (can't remember where I got them now) tonight set a static ip for the bluray player I inserted the usb stick with the 3 autoscript files on powered on the bluray waited until the tray opens pop in the sacd disc wait for tge front panel to read sacd then on my pc I opened a command prompt window and it read C:\users\daniel>

After this I typed S. \sacd_extract - I 192.168.0.20:2002 - P - I

Then enter and I get this message when using the command prompt way and when I try with sonore I get this 

[greynolds]

1 hour ago, Chiefbrodie said:

Hi there again so tonight I've tried all of your above suggestions and feedback but yet still nothing! This is driving me nuts... Maybe I nerd to re download all the relevant autoscript files (can't remember where I got them now) tonight set a static ip for the bluray player I inserted the usb stick with the 3 autoscript files on powered on the bluray waited until the tray opens pop in the sacd disc wait for tge front panel to read sacd then on my pc I opened a command prompt window and it read C:\users\daniel>

After this I typed S. \sacd_extract - I 192.168.0.20:2002 - P - I

Then enter and I get this message when using the command prompt way and when I try with sonore I get this 

What the heck is the "S.\" part at the beginning of your command?  You need to change your current directory to where sacd_extract.exe is located then type the command without the "S.\".  I also notice that you continue to mix up upper and lowercase i letters in your posts - what you show in the actual screenshot looks OK in that regard, but it's important to proofread your posts if you're going to get useful help as the difference between an uppercase I and lowercase i can make all the difference in the world for things like this; it's no different than when entering a password where "password" is considered completely different than "PaSSworD".

[Dick Darlington]

11 minutes ago, Chiefbrodie said:

Hi there again so tonight I've tried all of your above suggestions and feedback but yet still nothing! This is driving me nuts... Maybe I nerd to re download all the relevant autoscript files (can't remember where I got them now) tonight set a static ip for the bluray player I inserted the usb stick with the 3 autoscript files on powered on the bluray waited until the tray opens pop in the sacd disc wait for tge front panel to read sacd then on my pc I opened a command prompt window and it read C:\users\daniel>

After this I typed S. \sacd_extract - I 192.168.0.20:2002 - P - I

Then enter and I get this message when using the command prompt way and when I try with sonore I get this 

 

Tech/computer problems often have multiple underlying causes that must be sorted out to get things working. In my experience anyway. In your case I suspect you’re being thwarted by at least to separate issues (not including the biggest of all: troubleshooting avoidance). What I mean by that is that you seem to be banging your head on the final step instead of stepping back and working methodically to verify that each prerequisite in the chain has been satisfied. More on that in a moment but first ...

 

Potential problem 1: The error displayed in your Windows command console seems to be saying that it cannot find the executable program at the location you specified. Is it in fact in your current folder “c:\users\daniel”?  If it is you don’t need the “.\” prefix because that just says “this folder” although that shouldn’t hurt. If it is not, then you’re explicitly telling Windows to run a program in your home folder that is actually somewhere else. 

 

What happens if if you just type sacd_extract and hit return? Does it display usage info or a different error? Or is the result unchanged? If there is a difference; indicating the sacd_extract program did actually launch, that suggests  there is a problem with the arguments or somewhere else yet to be determined. But if it still says path not found or whatever... your talking to Elvis in the next room when in fact he’s left the building. 

 

Potential problem 2: Your Sonore GUI error would probably be different if it can’t find the sacd_extract executable (I *think*) so assuming it is able to launch your local sacd_extract then either it can’t talk to the player over the network OR it can but the remote sacd_extract is not running and listening on port 2002. If so what problem would cause this? Well any one of many from our current vantage point. That is looking back from the end of the flow chart with no knowledge of the decision branches along the way; who the hell knows?

 

FWIW I use the server method exclusively. Just a personal workflow preference, but nevertheless I include a Telnet launch line  in my scripts so it’s there for troubleshooting if I need it . When all is well with the server method, no worries. But as @Phthalocyanine has said many times (arguably more eloquently than me) and I strongly agree with: when stuff ISN’T working, you’re mostly blind without Telnet. 

 

So so that last digression was for anyone new that might happen along to this post and is such the glutton for punishment that they read this far into it. 

 

Moving along. In my little brain I think of several preliminary items that need to be satisfied and checked off if you’re not one of the lucky few finds ripping nirvana on the first try. Presented roughly in order but the order isn’t absolute and there are subset items not listed relevant to problems along the way:

 

1. Is there solid and verified network connectivity between the computer and the player? “I know I’m using the correct IP address” doesn’t count. 

 

2. Does the AutoScript file on the USB launch when inserted in the player? The tray opening is a strong positive indicator. The lack of the tray opening is not necessarily a counter indicator. 

 

3. Does the AutoScript file that launches find the the USB folder structure at its expected location, e.g. /mnt/sda1?

 

4. Does the AutoScript file succeed in launching 

   A) sacd_extract?

or

   B) Telnet?

or 

    C) both?

 

5. Can the connection from the computer to Telnet port 23 and/or port 2002 be established and verified? (actually this is just item 4 restated)

 

6. etc. etc. 

 

So yes inevitably someone will come along and say “all I did was this and stick that there and whoomp there it was and I’ve ripped 80000 SACDs except for the Tag Team sacd that was never released”, and that is awesome. For them. Some people win the lottery. But this SACD ripping thing is easy peazy and fraught with pitfalls at the same time. 

 

So with all that said I humbly suggest you turn your efforts towards verifying the items listed above. For item one there is ping. For item 2, use a script that opens the drawer and confirm that it does open. The approach to item 3 depends on whether or not Telnet is being employed or not. The murkiness of successive steps clears as the results of previous steps are known. 

 

And then then we pay taxes. 

 

And then then we die ...

[bbosler]

may not be the answer you are looking for, but when I followed the steps from Tmtomh for my  Sony BPD BX510 that I picked up cheaply on eBay  it all fell into place. Rather than fight it,  perhaps  $100 or so on one of these would be a simple solution. Once I did what he suggested it worked as advertised. a HUGE thanks again to all who are working on this project and good luck on however you decide to proceed

 

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Posted July 11

  On 7/11/2018 at 3:57 PM, bbosler said:

I am new to this and want to rip my SACDs. I have a Sony BDP BX510 which from what I read on this thread should work, but the Sonore program says it can't read it. I also see many variations of doing this, different downloads, different USB sticks, etc.. I can't (won't) scroll through 135 pages trying to find what is the right way for my player. I am hoping somebody has this player and can give detailed instructions on how do it. I have mac and Windows computers so whatever works. Thank you in advance

 

I have a Mac, and after retiring my beloved Oppo BDP-105 from my main stereo system, I decided to sell it (which I haven't gotten around to yet), and so I picked up a Sony BPD BX510 cheap off eBay to use as a dedicated SACD ripper. It works great!

 

From your description, it's impossible to know what issue is causing your problem. So if you want to find the solution you might very well have to read through at least a portion of those 135 pages. However, since the Sony machines were only recently discovered to work for SACD ripping, you can easily start reading 5-10 pages back from here and fairly quickly find the Sony discussion.

 

That said, here are the main pitfall areas folks (including me) have encountered, which could impact a Sony-based ripping setup like yours:

• USB Stick formatting: USB stick has to be formatted as FAT/FAT16, or FAT32, or NTFS. When formatting on a Mac, you want to choose FAT/MS-DOS. Macs don't offer NTFS, and they don't offer FAT32. (They offer exFAT, which is similar to FAT32, but the Sony machine doesn't read exFAT in my experience).
• USB Stick formatting - Mac-specific issue: If you format it on a Mac, you'll also need to make sure the stick is formatted with a Master Boot Record boot sector. The Mac default is GUID, and the Sony will not read a GUID formatted USB stick.
• AutoScript Folder Location: The AutoScript folder must be at the root level of the USB stick. The AutoScript and SACD Extract files must be INSIDE that Folder - they should not be directly at the root level of the USB stick.
• AutoScript Files: The SACD Extract file must be the "160" version (which works on the Pioneer BDP-160, 170, BFD80, and the Sony units including yours). A file named SACD Extract, without the "160" in the name, is for Oppo machines and will not work for you. In addition, the AutoScript file you have must be written to call up that "160" version of the SACD Extract file, not the non-160 version. Normally if you have downloaded a package of files that includes the sacd extract 160 file, then the accompanying AutoScript file will already be properly coded to work with the sacd extract 160 file.
• AutoScript File - Ripping Method: As detailed below, you can rip to the USB stick connected to the Sony (Telnet method), or you can rip over your network to your computer (server method). Which method you want to use will impact which AutoScript file you use. There are universal AutoScript files that enable Telnet for local ripping while also containing the necessary commands to enable remote/server-based ripping. However, I found that these more complex files did not work for me. Ripping with my Sony unit worked only when I switched to a super-simple, bare-bones AutoScript file that enables only the function I need (I use the server method).
• Sony Player Setup: For the SACD ripping app to work, the Sony player has to unmount the SACD - it has to "give up control" of it so the SACD ripping program can take control. There are two ways to do this. One is to have the Sony connected to a monitor, and each time you put in an SACD, navigate to the Sony's Settings menu and toggle the stereo/multichannel SACD setting. It doesn't matter what it's set on, just switch it. That trick unmounts the disc, and then you can go back to your computer and click "Execute" in the Sonore app. The other, and IMHO better, way, is to ensure the Sony is set to "quick start" mode in its settings. Then when you put an SACD in the tray, close it with the power button instead of the eject button. That will close the tray and turn off the Sony machine. But since it's in "quick start" mode, it's really only sleeping, not off. This status prevents the Sony from controlling/mounting the SACD, while still leaving it able to be "woken up" by the Sonore app on your computer. So the procedure would be to turn on the Sony, stick the USB stick in the machine, wait for the disc tray to open, remove the USB stick, put the SACD in the tray, then press the Power button to close the tray and prep the unit for commands from the Sonore app. The advantage of this "sleep" method is that you don't have to re-insert the USB stick as long as the Sony stays connected to AC power; and you don't have to keep the Sony connected to a monitor.
• How the Sony Player Names/Treats the USB Stick: This is among the most devilish of potential issues. In most cases, the USB stick will be assigned the label/ID "sda1" by the Sony machine, and so the AutoScript file is coded to look for sda1. However, if you are having other problems with SACD ripping, and you are repeatedly removing and re-inserting the USB stick in the Sony machine during troubleshooting, then the Sony will label the USB stick "sdb1" the 2nd time you insert it, and "sdc1" the 3rd time you insert it, and so on - thereby breaking the AutoScript file, which expects to find everything at "sda1." This is particularly devlish because in this situation nothing is actually broken - the AutoScript, the USB stick, and the Sony machine are all working just fine, and it's just a temporary problem based on the fact that you've re-inserted the USB stick instead of inserting it for the first time. There's a way to modify the AutoScript file to fix this, but the simplest solution for non-techie folks is just to turn the Sony off and on again before re-inserting the USB stick. That reboot of the Sony will make it revert to the proper "sda1" label for the USB stick when it's inserted.
• Telnet (local) mode vs Server (remote) mode: You always will be controlling the SACD ripping process remotely, from your computer. But you can do it so the SACD rips locally, to the USB stick attached to the Sony; or remotely, over wi-fi to your computer. I greatly prefer the latter method, but others prefer the former. You have to do some things differently depending on which method you use - for example with the Telnet/local method you can't remove the USB stick because the USB stick is where the ripped SACD data is going to be written.
• Location and Installation of Sonore app: There's another sacd extract app/executable, that lives on your computer's hard drive. (Some say this executable is included in the Sonore app, but that was not my experience). This app has to be in the same place/directory/folder on your hard drive as the Sonore app is. Also, to use the Sonore app, you need Java installed on your computer. Newer Macs no longer come with Java installed, although I do think they automatically prompt you to install it if it's missing and needed. I don't know what Windows machines do.

So... it is very complicated in terms of the number of issues or factors that COULD cause the process to fail. On the other hand, it is unlikely that you will run into all of these issues, usually only 1, 2, or maybe at worst 3 of them. And they are all easily solved with careful reading and a little trial and error.