SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

[Rightsaidfred]

Hi Music37

Thanks for confirming the the S490 works. The only problem is I'm not going to know what firmware is on the player prior to buying it. 

 

I don't know if its worth taking a punt and buying it?

 

Thanks.

[tmtomh]

11 minutes ago, Rightsaidfred said:

Hi Music37

Thanks for confirming the the S490 works. The only problem is I'm not going to know what firmware is on the player prior to buying it. 

 

I don't know if its worth taking a punt and buying it?

 

Thanks.

 

Firmware version does not matter for SACD ripping purposes. (It only mattered on Sony PS3s)

[Dick Darlington]

9 hours ago, JuanDG said:

I'm using a Mac and a cheapo EMTEC 8GB flash drive. The trick for formatting the flash drive on MacOS is to use the Terminal to wipe it clean first. Plug-in the flash drive, open terminal and type `diskutil list` and write down the path of the usb drive, for instance /dev/disk3. Then wipe it by typing `diskutil eraseDisk FREE TEST /dev/<your disk path>` on the terminal. After that you can go back to Disk Utility and click on `Erase` and the option to set it as Master Boot will be present again.

 

Congrats @JuanDG and thanks for sharing helpful details!

 

FWIW I have put together a few documents with some how-to type information specific to Mac users focusing on the USB media preparation (i.e. formatting) and macOS network tools (e.g. telnet) respectively.  It appears that the lion's share of people on this thread are Windows based and consequently important Mac specific details, such as what @JuanDG has pointed out w/r/t formatting the flash drive, are discussed infrequently. 

 

The first document is a somewhat in-depth discussion USB media formatting and includes very detailed macOS based step-by-step instructions, GUI based and command line based and covering a variety of formatting file system and partition scheme options.  It also addresses player compatibility (or lack thereof) with the available formatting choices.  And finally, it provides an array of NTFS file system solutions and how-to information for Mac users.

 

Although this document is primarily targeted toward the Mac user audience, it covers media format to player compatibility, which is inherently OS independent, and so there is a fair amount of general information applicable to Windows users as well.

 

The media formatting document can be found here:  "The SACD Ripper’s Guide to the macOS Media Formatting Universe"

 

Next up is a guide that touches on Vogon poetry whilst aiming to familiarize the Mac user with some core network tools that are likely to need at some point during their SACD ripping quest.  This second document will also provide the macOS based reader with a gazillion options for coping with Apple's recent removal of the native telnet client.  This includes but is not limited to a detailed step-by-step procedure for installing Homebrew and from that the Apple telnet client.

 

The macOS network tools document can be found here: "The SACD Ripper’s Guide to the macOS Network Tools Universe"

 

A few notes on the above:

1. Neither of these documents is a guide to the ripping process per se but rather they are macOS centric guides intended to drill down into a few key areas integral to the ripping process.
2. These documents were written primarily for the benefit of the non-power user contingent of this community and as such contain a lot of detail that may seem like stating and/or depicting the obvious to many.  Rightly or wrongly, this was a conscious decision to err on the side of TMI.
3. Drink up ?, the World's about to end. ???

[Rightsaidfred]

14 minutes ago, tmtomh said:

 

Firmware version does not matter for SACD ripping purposes. (It only mattered on Sony PS3s)

Oh o.k. but

Music37 said:

Hi, I have got a Sony BDP-S490 and it works fine with the firmware M12.R.0510 (I tried with the firmware M.12.R.0320 but it did not work.)   This is why I thought I'd ask before buying an S490.

Cheers.

[Phthalocyanine]

@Rightsaidfred

It's beginning to emerge that people are having problems ripping with very early firmware versions of the Sony models S490 and S590.

 

The good news is that's easy to upgrade Sony firmware.  You can always use a network connection to download and upgrade to the latest firmware.

 

An even better option is to upgrade (through burning to an upgrade CD) an intermediate firmware version that works for SACD and which is better than the most recent version in certain ways (i.e. allows for playing of SACD-Rs and does not have Cinavia).  The best version for the S590 is M12.R.0430.

 

All the intermediate Sony firmware is available here: http://www.mmnt.net/db/0/1/ftp.vaio-link.com/PUB/HAV/BDP/FW/

 

For the more adventurous, you can actually downgrade Sony firmware.  The instructions are here: http://www.malcolmstagg.com/bdp-s390-downgrade.html

 

So grab up that S490, you can easily adjust the firmware.

 

[TODDCA]

Does anyone know about the future of this effort?   Is anyone working on how to do this with a newer generation of technology?

 

I've been a successful user of a Pioneer BPD-80FD for well over a year now (maybe 2).  I've had no issues have started to grow a real SACD collection since I found out it was feasible .  Am I correct that none of the players this works on are still made?  I think I bought one of the last rounds of the 80FD that were still new.  The only things I use the player for are ripping SACD's and playing 6 channel rips across the network (I can't get Plex to play mult-channel right).

 

However, in the back of my mind, nothing electronic lasts forever.  The ability to rip SACD's is important enough to me I'm starting to think about picking up another Pioneer or one of the Sony players used just to hold as a backup.  Does anyone keep a backup player, just in case?

 

I'd gladly pay for the software to make this work if it were updated, and imagine most of us would.  

 

 

[MikeyFresh]

7 minutes ago, TODDCA said:

Does anyone keep a backup player, just in case?

 

While I don't know the answer to your original question about any potential work being done to make newer model players compatible with SACD ripping, I definitely keep a back-up player for this very purpose and in fact am now considering adding a Sony for that same purpose.

 

Like you, I originally bought a new Pioneer BDP-80fd to use as my ripping station, got that unit up and running flawlessly using ISO2DSD on my Mac, and made countless rips with it before getting a little worried about it's ultimate longevity/lifespan. It's not a piece of junk, but I find it's build quality fairly lacking.

 

I had hoped to buy a new Oppo BDP-103 right at the end of that model's production run, but it was a snooze and lose scenario, when I went to pull the trigger the new units had vanished and the price of used units had climbed to the point I didn't want one unless it was a local sale where I could gauge the condition upfront.

 

Then I got lucky and found the essentially similar Cambridge CXU on closeout pricing, $799 shipped from Crutchfield, and I jumped on it. A bit more expensive than an Oppo BDP-103 would have been, so not ideal, but worth it in my opinion and now I have much greater peace of mind.

 

Adding a cheap Sony would only bolster that confidence moving forward, though not really critical as I really like the CXU's build and it should last a very long time.

[Phthalocyanine]

Quote

The reason I ask is that sacd_extract_160 fails with discs authored using 2064 byte sectors instead of the usual 2048.

@skepitcal

Which specific SACD titles are authored that way?

What error message do you get when sacd_extract_160 fails with them?

[Guest skepitcal]

1 hour ago, Phthalocyanine said:

@skepitcal

Which specific SACD titles are authored that way?

What error message do you get when sacd_extract_160 fails with them?

 

In my case Bob Dylan - Blood on the Tracks, the error is:

libsacdread: Not a ScarletBook disc!
libsacdread: Can't read Master TOC.

and googling the error brings up various other examples. The explanation about 2064 vs 2048 byte sectors is given here in sacd-ripper issue #80, and as I mentioned previously it was solved long ago by foo_input_sacd which is derived from sacd-ripper. The patch isn't very complicated, but one would need to rebuild sacd_extract_160.

[MikeyFresh]

14 minutes ago, skepitcal said:

In my case Bob Dylan - Blood on the Tracks, the error is:

libsacdread: Not a ScarletBook disc!
libsacdread: Can't read Master TOC.

and googling the error brings up various other examples. The explanation about 2064 vs 2048 byte sectors is given here in sacd-ripper issue #80, and as I mentioned previously it was solved long ago by foo_input_sacd which is derived from sacd-ripper. The patch isn't very complicated, but one would need to rebuild sacd_extract_160.

This is interesting, I am using sacd-extract-bdp160, it was so many pages ago in this thread I no longer recall the exact source for it.

 

I had no issue at all ripping Blood On The Tracks with a Pioneer BDP-80fd, and ISO2DSD v6 for Mac.

 

No special steps taken or alterations done at all, it ripped just fine on the first try.

[Phthalocyanine]

Quote

The explanation about 2064 vs 2048 byte sectors is given here in sacd-ripper issue #80,

In the page you link to, they are talking about playing songs from and extracting songs from an .iso that has already been ripped.  The Foo-bar plug-in plays .isos that have already been ripped.  So this does not appear to address a ripping issue.  Rather it is an extracting issue from a ripped iso.

[andy1249]

1 hour ago, Phthalocyanine said:

In the page you link to, they are talking about playing songs from and extracting songs from an .iso that has already been ripped.  The Foo-bar plug-in plays .isos that have already been ripped.  So this does not appear to address a ripping issue.  Rather it is an extracting issue from a ripped iso.

 

More specifically, the titles in question are bootlegs whereby DSD files are made from the alleged source and then packed into an ISO file.

 

The original source was never an SACD disc which follows the official “ scarletbook specification”.

 

There are quite a few bootlegs like this floating around, titles that were never officially released on SACD such as Led Zeppelin , Pink Floyd, David Bowie, etc.

 

The ISO,s extracted from the real Bob Dylan SACD releases will have no issues, the bootlegs are another story.

[[email protected]]

On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 3:00 PM, [email protected] said:

I use foobar2000 to play the iso file. The Win 10 PC connects to a Yamaha AV amp by a HDMI cable. Is there any trick to play a 5.1 channel iso? Same problem occurs in the dsf files converted by sonore.

I think the problem comes from foobar2000 as Jriver plays all channels properly.

[ted_b]

5 hours ago, andy1249 said:

 

More specifically, the titles in question are bootlegs whereby DSD files are made from the alleged source and then packed into an ISO file.

 

The original source was never an SACD disc which follows the official “ scarletbook specification”.

 

There are quite a few bootlegs like this floating around, titles that were never officially released on SACD such as Led Zeppelin , Pink Floyd, David Bowie, etc.

 

The ISO,s extracted from the real Bob Dylan SACD releases will have no issues, the bootlegs are another story.

+1  Stay away from bootlegs; they will not rip.  Been saying this since we started with PS3 rips in 2011!  They don't follow scarletbook (i.e 2048).  There is no need for other bdp160 code.  It rips just fine.

[Guest skepitcal]

8 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

I had no issue at all ripping Blood On The Tracks with a Pioneer BDP-80fd, and ISO2DSD v6 for Mac.

Using this sacd_extract_160 with Columbia or MoFi sacd? Mine is the Columbia 2003 release.

 

6 hours ago, Phthalocyanine said:

In the page you link to, they are talking about playing songs from and extracting songs from an .iso that has already been ripped.  The Foo-bar plug-in plays .isos that have already been ripped.  So this does not appear to address a ripping issue.  Rather it is an extracting issue from a ripped iso.

Right, but if you look at the sacd_extract source code this particular error is thrown from a part that is engaged both when ripping a disk and reading an iso file.  Either way, iso file or actual disk, the data is arranged in fixed-length sectors and can't be read without knowing the correct sector size.  But I agree that until we have an sacd_extract that also tries to read 2064 byte sectors, we won't know for sure whether this is the actual problem.

 

5 hours ago, andy1249 said:

The ISO,s extracted from the real Bob Dylan SACD releases will have no issues, the bootlegs are another story.

I'm getting this issue using a "real" sacd as you put it, see above :-).  But taking your point beyond a bit further, the fact that there are actual PS3 rips of this title out there could mean that a newer patched version of sacd_extract was used.

[Kal Rubinson]

2 hours ago, [email protected] said:

I think the problem comes from foobar2000 as Jriver plays all channels properly.

So, again, how is foobar2000 configured with regard to channel output and how does that compare with JRiver's configuration?

[TODDCA]

What is the difference between an Oppo 103 and 103D?   Does the 103D work for ripping?

[Guest skepitcal]

56 minutes ago, ted_b said:

+1  Stay away from bootlegs; ... they don't follow scarletbook (i.e 2048).  There is no need for other bdp160 code.  It rips just fine.

As mentioned above, I'm getting this error with the actual columbia sacd disc in a Sony BDP-S590.  Other sacds are ripping fine.  It could be happening for other reasons, I grant. Speaking of the bdp 160 code, it would be helpful if you could share it so we can have a look.  The patch is fairly trivial, but it needs to be compiled for arm6 platform in order to test, so any info on how your version was built would be helpful.

[andy1249]

36 minutes ago, skepitcal said:

Using this sacd_extract_160 with Columbia or MoFi sacd? Mine is the Columbia 2003 release.

 

Right, but if you look at the sacd_extract source code this particular error is thrown from a part that is engaged both when ripping a disk and reading an iso file.  Either way, iso file or actual disk, the data is arranged in fixed-length sectors and can't be read without knowing the correct sector size.  But I agree that until we have an sacd_extract that also tries to read 2064 byte sectors, we won't know for sure whether this is the actual problem.

 

I'm getting this issue using a "real" sacd as you put it, see above :-).  But taking your point beyond a bit further, the fact that there are actual PS3 rips of this title out there could mean that a newer patched version of sacd_extract was used.

 

I have blood on the tracks columbia 2003 512350-2

From the 2003 16 album (17 disc) box set CH 90326

mofi edition UDSACD 2098

and 2003 Japanese edition MHCP 10010

all are genuine scarletbook and rip fine.

 

There is a hooky version going around that uses the artwork from the individual 2003 columbia version that will not rip, it can be got on “SACD-R” which is actually a DVD-R burned from the ISO or via ISO download, neither will rip via ISO2DVD

[ted_b]

I have shared everything I have, skeptical!  I am not the author of this stuff, and don't even rip via this method (I use PS3).  I am the OP cuz I was the one who first gave you folks the heads-up on this alternative ripping option (and given my history with documenting PS3 SACD ripping).  Nothing more.  I have stated this many times, including in the first post (which I try to edit/curate  periodically if someone has a new set of steps, etc)

[MikeyFresh]

15 minutes ago, TODDCA said:

What is the difference between an Oppo 103 and 103D?   Does the 103D work for ripping?

 

The only difference is the 103D has Darbee video processing, both are fully compatible with SACD ripping.

[MikeyFresh]

1 hour ago, skepitcal said:

Using this sacd_extract_160 with Columbia or MoFi sacd? Mine is the Columbia 2003 release.

 

I have both the 2003 Columbia release, and the MoFi, and both discs ripped just fine.

 

My version of SACD extract is named differently than yours, see my original post, that is exactly what mine is named (dashes no underscores and BDP prefixing the 160).

 

I see that in @ted_b's OP, in the link for the BDP-160 instructions there is an exact reference to the naming convention used as I describe above, I don't know why the version you are using is named differently or what about it could be different and potentially causing you a problem.

 

I'm relatively sure I got my version of SACD extract for the BDP-160 here.

[Guest skepitcal]

9 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I have shared everything I have, skeptical!  ...I am the OP cuz I was the one who first gave you folks the heads-up on this alternative ripping option.

Great, and I thank you for it , and it's 99% successful for me! If you didn't actually compile the binary it would be helpful if you could point me to where it was obtained.  The main thing is that the github source code is for creating the PS3 binary, and your sacd_extract_160 appears to be a "de-PS3'd" version and it's unclear exactly how that was done. I'm looking for the specific patches/makefiles.

 

@andy1249 I have the 2003 boxed set. This has nothing to do with bootlegs.

[Rightsaidfred]

Well boys and girls, I've managed to bag myself a used Sony S-490 for the princely sum of £30.00 and hope to be joining the sacd ripping party shortly.

 

Thank you to everyone for the advice and tips so far.

 

 

[[email protected]]

23 hours ago, ted_b said:

+1  Stay away from bootlegs; they will not rip.  Been saying this since we started with PS3 rips in 2011!  They don't follow scarletbook (i.e 2048).  There is no need for other bdp160 code.  It rips just fine.

I have also encountered this error message (using SONY BDP-BX59) with Bjork'S SACD which is not a bootleg.