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SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!


ted_b

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I accidentally found this thread while searching for something else. I'd given up a while ago on ripping my SACD's to play in JRMC because finding a PS3 with the required firmware didn't seem practical. I was thinking about packing up my Oppo BDP-103 and sending it to one of my nephews because I bought a UDP-203 about 6 months ago and the BDP has just been sitting on the shelf gathering dust. Holy crap! I might have to buy a different Bluray player for the nephew instead.

 

I spend all day yesterday reading in this thread- I got through 50 pages (glossed over a lot looking for the important parts) and I think I've got a pretty good handle on what I need to do to get started, only one question I haven't resolved, and that's about firmware. In the first 50 pages, the latest reference I could find to what firmware is confirmed to work is to ver. BDP10x-83-0715. Obviously that's for pretty old firmware at this point, and since I didn't even know this thread existed until yesterday, my  firmware is significantly newer.

 

Can anyone save me going through 70+ more pages of the thread and let me know what the latest working firmware version is for the BDP-103 or if any firmware version has ever been an issue that blocked this method from working?

 

(Fingers crossed)

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1 minute ago, ted_b said:

AFAIK, the only relevant issue to this thread regarding Oppo firmware is the ability (or removal of that ability) to play SACD-Rs.  Those are ISOs burnt onto DVD-Rs and played back on SACD and universal/SACD disc players that accept them.  But as far as ripping the initial ISOs, no I don't believe any firmware affects the ability to rip (as others who are more in the know have already responded to).

Thank you Ted, not an issue now, would only be an issue if I backed up my SACDs and the stored originals got disc rot, burned up in a fire (you think about these things after you've had a fire and lost most of everything you owned- I keep backups of important media in 2 fireproof waterproof safes now) or stolen; you wouldn't happen to know where I could find out more details about this, would you? If I had to restore my discs after a disaster and they wouldn't play in anything that would be a sad situation.

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Created USB with ted_b's link, worked without issues in my BDP-103, used sacd_extract from the cmd line to extract my first sacd iso... went very smoothly, although I still have to review the cmd line switches because it ended up in my personal user directory instead of in the c:\sacd_extract\ folder. Will review the cmd line help listing to find the appropriate options tomorrow and create some bat files for my needs. I know there's a gui interface but it requires java and I'm not a fan of it and consider it a security risk (YMMV). I'm trying to figure out how JRMC has implemented it's use in ver 24 for Bluray titles, where it's isolated from use by other programs on the system and never tries to update itself, I think I understand how they did it, think it's similar to a portable version, but not the exact same, and this needs further review. If you want to know more a little more about how JRMC 24 says it works, see the beginning of this thread, which is not very detailed, but it's a start:

 

NEW: Blu-ray Menu playback support:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114628.0.html

 

I still have much to learn about the format; for instance I had read elsewhere in this  thread that ripping an ISO would result in it containing all the contents of the disc, i.e. the stereo, multi-channel and CD versions in the ISO ( I tested with 'Madman Across The Water'- Elton John, which the jewel case is marked with all three versions. When I opened the disc in JRMC 24, it only gave me the option of playing the stereo version, not the multi-channel... don't know if I need to configure something in JRMC or if the problem lies with how I ripped the ISO. Any explanation, advice etc regarding that would be appreciated, I'm not new to computers, but I am a newbie when it comes to ripping SACD's.

 

Many thanks to all the people who worked on the various aspects of this thread and those who contributed their personal experience and wisdom to help others on the same road...

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5 hours ago, andy1249 said:

 

Definitely does not contain the CD layer.

The ripped iso contains the DSD/SACD layer only.

It will contain both stereo and Multichannel if present.

 

The CD layer cannot be ripped to ISO

No CD can be ripped to an ISO

You must rip to another image format for CD such as BIN & cue file, or wav & cue file etc.

You can use EAC or DBpoweramp and many other CD copy programs for that.

Thanks for clearing that up Andy, I own a copy of DBpoweramp so I can use that to pull a CD copy for my iPod. Will have to dig into JRMC to find out why it only saw the stereo version and not the multichannel of the iso.

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Thanks himey and ted, this is my second day with ripping SACDs so I'm still in the steep part of the learning curve. As a quick test to verify the integrity of the rip yesterday I just double-clicked on the ISO and JRMC(24) auto-mounted the ISO in the background and suggested compatible bitrates, and the ISO played. I didn't import the ISO into my library as I'm still thinking about how I want to handle this format- ISO or split files. Will look at your JRMC youtubes today ted, thanks!

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/11/2018 at 11:19 PM, Phthalocyanine said:

The conventional wisdom has been that it is best to rip .iso-s because you are sure to get all the tracks (stereo and multichannel) and because that way you will have less wear and tear on the ripping drive, since you can process the .iso files on the computer later with iso2DSD (which contains the same code for extracting).

 

But the option is there to rip directly to .dsf files.

 

Usage: sacd_extract_160 [options] [outfile]
  -2, --2ch-tracks                : Export two channel tracks (default)
  -m, --mch-tracks                : Export multi-channel tracks
  -e, --output-dsdiff-em          : output as Philips DSDIFF (Edit Master) file
  -p, --output-dsdiff             : output as Philips DSDIFF file
  -s, --output-dsf                : output as Sony DSF file
  -t, --select-track              : only output selected track(s) (ex. -t 1,5,13)
  -I, --output-iso                : output as RAW ISO
  -c, --convert-dst               : convert DST to DSD
  -C, --export-cue                : Export a CUE Sheet
  -i, --input[=FILE]              : set source and determine if "iso" image,
                                    device or server (ex. -i 192.168.1.10:2002)
  -P, --print                     : display disc and track information
  -S, --server-mode               : start in a server mode

I'm using an Oppo BDP-103, SACD_EXTRACT and some simple .bat files I wrote to rip my SACDs (Win 7 Ultimate 64). Also using jRiver MC 24.

I don't have the "-S. --server-mode" command when I run the -? command line switch. Can't tell you what version of SACD_EXTRACT I'm running [that really should be part of the ' -? ' readout] - I'm guessing that may be because you might have been referring to  'SACD_EXTRACT_160' in your above post???

 

It would be nice if SACD_EXTRACT would dump a .txt file for each SACD ripped with the catalog #'s, area count, speaker config and track info, for reference. Obviously, I can copy and past it to a txt file myself, but what's the fun in that?

 

I'm very much a newb after recently discovering this thread and finding that my Oppo, which I was just about to give away, would easily rip my SACD's - bonus points when you discover something you already had can do something you've been wanting to do for years!

 

Initially I ripped my first SACD to an ISO because I knew it contained both the stereo and multichannel versions, and because jRiver could read the ISOs and track info. The file was fairly large, and I decided to do some rips to multichannel only individual files to save some space, and was surprised to find that this had the opposite effect- the sum of the individual files for each disc were roughly twice the size of the ISOs. Interesting. So now I'm back to ISOs. Hopefully jRiver is configurable so that if I connect another instance of jRiver to it on the LAN, it will be able to stream the multichannel or stereo version based on the remote jRiver instance system's audio capabilities.

 

Any advice, thoughts, etc about integrating SACD ISOs into the jRiver infrastructure will be appreciated- I have watched and read Ted's youtubes and paper about using SACDs with jRiver. Currently I'm passing the bitstreamed output of jRMC v24 via HDMI to my Denon AVR-X7200WA receiver, but thinking seriously about a DSD-capable D/A converter.

 

 Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Out of curiosity, after ripping my SACDs to a hard drive to use with jRiver, I was wondering, as a extra backup, could I write my ISOs out to a disc (DVD) so I'd have an extra backup if something ever happened to my SACDs or had read errors in one, and the drive that their on in jRiver died... would I be able to re-rip the SACD-R's  to ISOs again in my Oppo BDP-103? I know I can't play SACD-R's in the Oppo, but when I rip, aren't I reading out the disc before the pit-detection copy protection? (You start thinking about things like this after your house burns down and you lose everything in it!)

 

 

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6 hours ago, Phthalocyanine said:

If you burn the .iso image to a DVD using the "write image to disc" function of a DVD writing program you will have a SACD-R, which will play in some SACD players, but maybe not your Oppo with its particular firmware.  And yes, you can rip SACD-Rs even on drives that do not play SACD-Rs.

 

But if all you really want is data backup, then just burn your .iso as data to Blu-ray discs.  SACD range in size from 1GB to 4GB, averaging 2GB, so you can fit about 10 onto a Blu-ray data disc.  Much less time than burning all those individual SACD-R, especially if you never intend to play them.

From my original post "I know I can't play SACD-R's in the Oppo, but when I rip, aren't I reading out the disc before the pit-detection copy protection?"

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There's no need to apologize for trying to help my friend. The question was intentionally specific. I'm an engineer- I've had an unquenchable thirst to know how things work since I was a small child.

 

Regarding backups- writable/re-writable CDs, DVDs, Blu-rays all have store their information in a dye layer that is change by a laser when writing data on it. The dye layer is a fluid, in the same sense that glass is a fluid... if you ever doubt that, examine a very old glass window and you'll find that it is thicker at the bottom than at the top, and there are variations in the thickness over the entire window that distort objects view thru it. Earlier in the history of re-writable discs, things were a lot worse... you could find read errors sometimes within a few months, now it's a much longer period of time, but the fact remains that discs still do fail, just after longer periods of time and at different rates. Some may last for years, even decades, others may fail next month.

 

The effect of consumerism: The average consumer wants to pay the least amount possible. This is the most primitive reason why Amazon exists. Consumers want things cheap. They buy the cheapest discs possible. But you might reply, "I'll just go out and buy the best discs I can"...  enter capitalism. Most consumers really don't know the difference, or care about knowing the difference between cheap discs and high quality discs, so they are driven mainly by price, and sometimes by brand name. It costs a bit more to manufacture really good discs, so even the manufacturers who know how to make them still have to complete with manufacturers of cheap discs, so they in-turn adapt to the consumer and make what the consumer wants, even if the manufacturer has something much better. Manufacturers who choose to only the best discs become a niche market, there's less competition and less sales and the cost of manufacturing goes up, and the end price goes up as well.

 

A basic law of backups: all media will eventually fail. Optical discs, hard drives, tape, solid state storage- all will eventually fail. The longest man-made storage media we currently have are the bricks that Egyptians carved records into. (This is not a literary device used to demonstrate a point, this is fact. I know because I was one of a group of engineers and archivists who were tasked with this research).

 

A second basic law of backups: the greater the amount of data that can be stored on a single media device, the greater the amount of data that is at risk. This why certain modes of RAID are used. We know the drives will fail, so we spread the risk over multiple drives and encode it in such a way that if one of the drives (sometimes more than one, depending on the version of RAID used) fails, the information lost on that drive can be recovered from the bits contained on the other, still functioning drives. 

 

I think the above should go a long way in explaining the economics of backups. When you back up discs that will cost you anywhere from, say $25 to a couple of hundred or more dollars to replace, it doesn't make sense to save money by putting a bunch of them on one blu-ray disc, and risk losing everything on it at once. Economics and time do play a part- imagine the cost of putting each song from an SACD on it's own M-DISC. You may as well go out and buy a second copy of every SACD you own instead. Everyone has to strike a balance of safety vs economy that they're comfortable with. 

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  • 1 month later...

@Chiefbrodie

I don't use the Sonore software (I have an Oppo BDP-103 for ripping) but that error message  'Failed to connect... ' would cause me to do 2 things; from the CMD prompt type:

 

ip config <return>

 

and make sure your computer is on the same subnet as the disc player you're trying to connect to, ie 192.168.0.x where x is the final triplet in your computer's IP address. If that shows you're on the same subnet, from the cmd prompt type:

 

ping 192.168.0.17

and see if you get successful packet confirmations- should look something like this:

 

Pinging 192.168.0.17 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 192.168.0.17: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128

Reply from 192.168.0.17: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128

Reply from 192.168.0.17: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128

Reply from 192.168.0.17: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128

 

Ping statistics for 192.168.0.17:

      Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 <0% loss>,

Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:

      Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms

 

If your results are like above, then your computer and disc player hardwares are communicating properly, and you can focus your efforts on your command line syntax,  disc player settings and Sonore software settings. Divide and conquer.

 

If you get timeout errors they are not communicating and that must be fixed before you proceed.

 

Lack of communication might be due to a bad cable, if your cable runs directly from the computer to the disc player without going through a switch you might need a crossover cable (most relatively new computers network interface should do this automatically with a non-crossover cable); other sources of problems could be the computer's firewall (possible but less likely), anti-virus software, faulty network connector, lint in the connector (don't laugh, this actually happens more often than you'd think, especially with old equipment).

 

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9 minutes ago, alandbush said:

 

+1 kudos to all those that willingly and helpfully provide information that is not always common knowledge as one would think.

 

@Chiefbrodie

 

Further to my earlier post, it subsequently occurred to me that the process you are following appears manually intensive and prone to typos, especially if you have to repeat it for each SACD rip.

 

The process I follow, surely gleaned from this thread or others, should greatly simplify the process for each subsequent SACD rip, once the initial setup is completed.

 

Let me explain, hopefully, in clear concise steps (oh and this is for Windows)

 

1) open the folder containing the sacd_extract.exe

2) create a new text document file named for eg. SACD_rip

3) open the new text document and type in the sacd_extract command with the appropriate IP address

sacd_extract -i 192.168.0.17:2002 -P -I

(nb - you could copy and paste the above command to prevent any typos)

4) save this text document

5) open this text document again and save as a new command script file

ie.

5a) select 'File -> Save As...' to open the 'Save As window' 

5b) change the 'Save As type' from Text documents to All Files

5c) change the 'File name' as appropriate BUT append the file type extension (.cmd)

eg. SACD_rip.cmd

5d) select the 'SAVE' button

 

Thats it!

 

To rip a SACD, you now simply open this command script file and it will execute.  Viola! (fingers crossed)

 

Should the IP address change, you simply need to repeat from step 3).

 

Good luck.

 

Exactly what I do- I create 3 scripts, one to extract ISOs, one to extract 2-track files, and one to extract multi-track files.

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1 hour ago, Dick Darlington said:

 

@meli, I wasn't suggesting that you were doing anything wrong but rather that your conclusion that the Oppo will "see" a GPT formatted disk but is not able to launch the AutoScript from a GPT formatted disk, although perfectly reasonable given your troubleshooting observations, is not actually the case and therefore something else, most likely a hidden system partition was the actual culprit.  I wouldn't even call using MBR a workaround because it's correct and as far as I'm concerned the best way to go.  For that reason, other than listing the Oppo as both GPT and MBR compatible in my media formatting guide targeted to Mac users, the GUI and command line procedures for media preparation are decidedly MBR only.

 

TL;DR for new/uninitiated macOS users:  The SACD Rippers Guide to the macOS Media Formatting Universe 

 

You are absolutely correct IMHO that the MBR is the way to go because it's easy; it is compatible with all the known ripping capable players, which cannot be said of GPT; and the only situation that I can think of where someone would have a need-based motive for using GPT for this application is such an extreme corner case it borders on the absurd.  This is even more true for Mac users given macOS's dogged determination to stick a hidden EFI partition at the beginning of every GPT formatted disk. I was never able to get around that using the Disk Utility GUI.  It's been a while since I was deep diving these things and it's become somewhat conflated.  I thought I remembered being able to avoid the EFI partition via the Mac's command line "diskutility".  Upon revisitation I found that I could not brute force a single partition GPT disk using macOS native facilities to save my life.  I was able to prevail using a low level third party disk utility, but that was just me trying to beat The Man in Cupertino and otherwise completely and utterly pointless.

 

Nevertheless and in the spirit of trying to maintain as accurate a body of information as possible for the sake of those whom will be clawing their way through this Threadzilla in the future, my earlier post was merely to set the record straight with respect to Oppo media format compatibility.

 

When it comes to USB disk preparation, discussion of and conclusions drawn with respect to player compatibility are usually limited to file system and partition scheme and associated pros and cons.  This is unfortunate because there is   one more thing, and it's hugely important and it is a universal requirement across all supported players: the position of AutoScript volume on the disk.  If it is not the first partition, then the AutoScript will not launch and there will be no joy.  This continues to trip people up albeit infrequently.  Unfortunately it is surprisingly easy for someone to end up with a noncompliant USB disk in this regard.  Even if they *believe* they completely reformatted the disk with only a single partition.  And even if it *appears* that there is really and truly only one partition on that disk.  Not everyone would notice as you did that your device had a "Child count" of 2 and/or that the device name was "disk?s2" and not "disk?s1" as it must be to work.  On macOS, that's all you're gonna get from the GUI.  Graphically it shows only one disk containing one volume. This is why I always include wording such as "... and is the first partition on the disk" in the context of USB media preparation.

 

 

PS:

Believe it or not there are a lot of posts containing incorrect information due to innocently ill formed conclusions strewn about in this 140 pages and counting thread. <clears throat ... straightens tie> At least one or two or maybe five or six are my own posts.  My most recently identified personal falsehood is my claim, which I just found to be a boldface lie, is that the partition table ID number of the AutoScript volume must be 1 for AutoScript to be found and launched.  That is not true after all. I just did a test where I took a Mac prepared GPT disk with it's problematic hidden EFI first partition and used Windows to delete the EFI partition.  The AutoScript volume retained its partition table ID of 2, but the Oppo saw it as the first partition and launched the AutoScript regardless.

 

Apple is not the only one who uses hidden partitions on their disks, Windows also creates a small hidden partition on system disks when they're installed. Neither of them use these hidden partitions, it seems to be more a matter of  JIC. You are correct about being able to see and access Apple's hidden partition using CLI, you can read from and write files to it, although I've never tried to remove it so, mainly because there was no reason for me to do so. As I recall the GUI doesn't see it at all, even if you enable hidden files, you can only see and manipulate it at the primitive level. CLI command is actually 'diskutil'. AFAIK there is no way to remove Apple's hidden partition at least not with diskutil, closest thing might be to 'merge' it with a second partition; if so, unknown what merging a hidden partition with a non-hidden one would result in, even if it's possible... 

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4 hours ago, Beacon said:

I've searched this site for the past hour and cannot find the answer to my question - are either Sony BDP-S5000ES or Sony BDP S1E able to rip SACDs?

 

I have an Oppo 103 so am familiar with the process as far as that machine goes and have successfully ripped many SACDs.

 

Thanks....

They do not play SACD's, ergo they do not have the hardware decoder to rip them. Sorry.

 

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3 hours ago, JRODRIGUEZ74740 said:

I got a OPPO103 And trying to go with my first ripping, I have some doubts. Since the ripping  will be saved in the Mac how is established the connection between the OPOO and the MAC? Could be done with WIFI which requires an usb in the opposite , or since it is said any USB shall be out of the Oppos, I must make the connection via LAN?.

 

I'm a little confused about the meaning of this statement, "Could be done with WIFI which requires an usb in the opposite , or since it is said any USB shall be out of the Oppos, I must make the connection via LAN", but as MikeyFresh has stated, you can use either WiFi or Ethernet, but in my opinion Ethernet would be the preferred. WiFi can certainly be used but depending on your own circumstance, things like what version of WiFi (A, B, G, N, etc), how far your Oppo and Mac are from your Wireless router or Wireless Access Point, encryption overhead, interference from other wireless devices like wireless phones, microwaves, wireless alarms, light dimmers etc, whether you have nearby neighbors with their own Wireless routers and devices on the same band/channel, how many other wireless devices you have that are sharing bandwidth on your wireless router can all play a part in degrading your connection speed; wired ethernet is faster, more reliable, and can easily avoid sharing bandwidth.

Like you, I have an Oppo 103, and have used it with my MacBook Pro, but generally use it with my jRiver Media Server (Windows) which plays DSDs and SACD ISOs natively, and while jRiver is available for Mac and Linux, I use the Windows version because jRiver's newest developments generally hit Windows first and then get added to Mac and Linux later. With the Oppo, it's really easy to implement once you figure out the few pieces you need, and what a few settings on the Oppo need to be... all you really need is a thumb drive, some files available elsewhere in this thread and an Ethernet cable (should you decide to go with hardwired Ethernet).

 

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1 hour ago, JRODRIGUEZ74740 said:

Thanks Mikey. I see in the network from the Oppo my mac, but when trying to acces to music files from it, a password and user name is required. I have tried using the name and password utilized for opening the mac, and as well the name and password I have for Appel, and none of the two are accepted.

as well when opening the ISO2DSD and introducing the Oppo IP I can not get access.

But perhaps the problem is that the Chip I have in Oppo is 8550 and not 8580....

As far as I know all Oppo BDP-103's can rip SACD's, and all firmwares work to rip SACD's. My USB thumb drive remains in the front USB connector at all times and doesn't interfere with playing other discs. I never get asked for a password. 

Why don't you post exactly what you've done to this point to try to get this to work, there are a number of steps and they all have to be correct for the particular disc player you are ripping with. The BDP-103 is one of the easiest to get to work from what I've read here; I had one sitting in the rack doing nothing after buying a UDP-103 and was about to give it away to my nephew until I ran across this thread ☺️

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3 hours ago, Dick Darlington said:

 

FWIW, I am using the usb WiFi adapter on my Oppo 103 and it works every bit as well as wired Ethernet. (See huge caveat below.) That said there was one time that I was unable to connect and it turned out that the player had stopped detecting the WiFi adaptor for some reason. I attributed that to it having been asleep too long. Removing and reinserting the WiFi dongle brought it back. So I now wonder if I did indeed experience one of the aforementioned problems ?.

 

Huge caveat: This is only the case since upgrading to an Oppo 203 and moving my 103 into the study where it’s now within 10 feet of the router. HOWEVER when it was across the house the WiFi, which was fine for normal A/V streaming was dog slow for the SACD ripping application. In theory my WiFi connection should have been able to support ripping from the other room but it wasn’t worth troubleshooting. So this last part is off topic of  @MikeyFresh‘s post, but I wanted to be clear that I’m not making a sweeping statement that WiFi works just as well as wired. It can. But that doesn’t mean it will in every situation.  

Hey, I don't know the details, but it seems like if you're within 10 feet of the router you could just use a cable, unless there's a door threshold (or a wife threshold) standing in the way of progress! ☺️

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7 minutes ago, look&listen said:

Watching thread long time, now join ranks of SACD rippers one week past!

Recently bought very nice used BDP-103. Enjoy very nice improvement to 4K screen from DVD & BR. Then attempt SACD rip(DSOTM). Printed out instructions for Oppo 10x (linked from 1st thread page), collected software, set network & options. But had two little problems before success & start of rip.

 

1- tray not open with (HFS?) USB insert. Copied AutoScript software to other (Ex-fat) drive & tray opened Ok.

2- iso2dsd initial IP address entry not work, even with correct Oppo IP numbers. Problem was missing port number (not mentioned in guide). Found examples (: 2002) online, but better if mentioned in setup guide(s) if anyone can edit text.

 

Thx for all who contribute to helpful thread!

To think, I was going to give my Oppo BDP-103 to my nephew after I got an Oppo UDP-103... I ran across this thread by accident days before I was going to pack it up and ship it.... Ahhhhhhhhhh

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