SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

[mocenigo]

Grill, appreciated.

 

Yep, prob best alternative.

 

OS X has telnet, and sacd_extract is compiled for OS X as well, so one can just use "sacd_extract -i ip-address-here:2002 -P -I" from the Terminal. Why should this not work?

[mocenigo]

I just got a 170-K. At first it did not work and could not understand why, and I could not telnet. After I used the telnet specific AutoScript I could telnet and I observed that user /mnt the USB stick was under /mnt/sdb1 not /mnt/sda1. Maybe this is because I am using the front port and not the rear USB port? NO idea at all.

 

After this, I got it to start manually. I am ripping a SACD at the moment. It is a bit slower than the PS3, but the PS3 is direct to a stick, this is over wifi and actually computer and BDP-170 are on different repeaters...

 

If this works, I am a happy cow. Even if slower than the PS3, it is much more silent and I can keep it in my study, where I have no TV display, whereas the PS3 is in the living room.

[mocenigo]

What speed are you getting?

 

Only 1.8Mb/sec but I forgot to load the kernel module that increases the memory available for these purposes. I will retry tomorrow morning.

 

The ISO image that I obtained was identical to the one I ripped with the PS3.

[mocenigo]

If my pc is connected to the internet, and my android phone is on the same internet connection, which is a mobile hotspot, is there an android app that will retrieve the ip of my player connected to my pc via LAN?

 

FING is one such app, it you could also look at the web interface of your wireless router, if accessible.

[mocenigo]

What are the ripping speeds you are getting, folks? I am using WLAN, and the ripping is about 1.2Mb/s, which is disappointing. I will try with LAN tomorrow.

 

Roberto

[mocenigo]

I've invited another experienced Mediatek ripping user to join us and help out. He also showed me how we can run sacd_extract manually from the telnet console, and watch the ripping process. For example, you can add some memory/buffer to the Pioneers like the 160, which are woefully low for good ISO extraction. I will summarize in another post (unless he does).

 

I do not know who this experienced user is, but if he is reading, I would be interested to know why I get the following errore

 

insmod /lib/modules/2.6.35/BDP/splitter.ko

insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/2.6.35/BDP/splitter.ko': -1 File exists

 

this seems to point to the fact that the module is already loaded?

 

Also, if I have the script on a large usb storage unit, could I just rip to the local disk?

 

thank you

Roberto

[mocenigo]

Just a smidge over 3 MBps using an Oppo 105D to a Win 10 machine with i7 processor and SSD.

 

 

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LAN or WIFI?

 

 

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[mocenigo]

The same here (2.5 Mb/s) with my BDP-80FD

 

LAN or WIFI?

 

 

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[mocenigo]

Ok, since connecting to LAN is a bit cumbersome here (I need to move the player somewhere else and disable WIFI, that has priority) I used a larger disc connected to USB and made a copy of the sand_extract_160 command to its root as well. Telnetting into and issuing "sacd_extract -I" rips directly to the connected disc and I reach 2.85 Mb/sec (updated, and it increases slowly).

 

I can imagine that LAN could get a bit more. But for now I think this is splendid. For me it is a matter of

- powering up

- inserting disc

- telnetting (also from a mobile phone telnet app, for which I have defined some shortcuts)

- cd /mnt/sda1

- insert disc to rip

- sacd_extract -I

 

Wow. Yes, it is more steps than with the PS3, but already more comfortable, and modifying the autoscript files I can make it easily automatic.

 

Roberto

[mocenigo]

I'm only getting about 0.6Mb/s over a combination of WLAN and LAN. Oppo 103D is connected via Ethernet switch to an 802.11N extender, while my PC is connected via Ethernet to the main router. I like the sound of your setup, ripping to a local disk. True wired LAN connection not feasible for me, either.

 

The only problem I can see is when the ISO is larger than 4Gb. If the Pioneer or the Oppo only supports FAT then we have to hope that it splits the files like the PS3 version. If however a file system such as exFAT or extN with N one of 2,3 or 4 is supported, then we are in great shape in any case.

 

The only remaining problem (that the PS3 does not address) could be with SACDs with the same name - this happens when some musical work is on more SACDs and the disc name does not distinguish the various parts - or you have a few discs without title and this the image is called "Untitled.iso": it is easy to remotely telnet and use the unix command "mv" to rename the files before the next rip - without having to disconnect the disc each time!

 

Roberto

 

 

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[mocenigo]

Correct me if I were wrong bcs I almost forget all my Physics. However, I can still barely remember that the linear speed at the edge of a rotating disc should be faster than that at center. So, I think above gradual increase in ripping speed is natural and same for everybody.

 

This is absolutely correct. While the CD, if I remember correctly, has a variable rotational speed (~500 rpm at the beginning, slowing down to approximately ~200 near the border), DVDs can have a constant rotational speed, but the mode depends on the application. Since a SACD is essentially a DVD, I would not be surprised if ripping were done at constant rotational speed, which means that the tangential speed varies with the position and is higher towards the border.

 

I can't find a bigger size SACD yet, say containing 4.0+ Gb data. but I expect it should achieve 3.0+ Mb/s near completion bcs the end data should be close to the edge of the disc.

 

And indeed it approaches 3.1.

However, it does not split the files and I haven't been able to read exFAT disks.

Does anybody know which filesystems are supported by the Pioneer?

 

Roberto

[mocenigo]

However, it does not split the files and I haven't been able to read exFAT disks.

Does anybody know which filesystems are supported by the Pioneer?

 

Note to myself: RTFM. It states "USB devices formatted in the FAT32, FAT16 or NTFS file system can be used."

 

Well, then I will just need a NTFS solution for the mac (there are plenty, both free, and commercial).

 

Roberto

[mocenigo]

My extracts start out at 1.8 to 2.0mbps and top out around 3.1. The average at the end of a rip usually is in the 2.8 area.

 

My setup is Oppo 105 -> wired ethernet -> Airport Extreme router -> wi-fi -> iMac

 

Very interesting. So the wifi bottleneck is at the BDP's side.

 

Roberto

 

 

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[mocenigo]

I hadn't thought of that, but you very well could be right. I don't recall - is the Oppo's wi-fi dongle a "G" or "N" dongle? If it's a G, then that could explain the slow speeds - G theoretically has plenty of speed, but in practice it's much slower and less robust than N. Even if it's an N dongle but is limited to the 2.4GHz band (as opposed to 5GHz), that could possibly explain the slowdown since the 2.4GHz band is very crowded.

 

Another problem can just be the implementation of the drivers of the WIFI: must the CPU be interrupted to move buffers around or does the WIFI subsystem have its DMA? And how is the memory interface implemented? Even that may have unexpected latencies when different masters race.

 

A couple of years ago, as part of my work for a semiconductor manufacturer, I had to review some security aspects of a chip for set top boxes, BDPs, smart TVs and the like. That was a monster. Note that each such SoC comes with software images to link into operating systems, and custom versions of Linux or Android are manufacturer provided. So the quality of this SW contributes to the final price.

 

And competitors offered cheaper products with lower performance and a lot of shortcuts taken in the implementation of security. The result is that we had to cancel that product. So it is not a surprise that even wifi communication may have an impact on raw CPU performance. To get cheap BDPs you need cheap SOCs.

 

With hindsight, this may have been good for us as audiophiles, because this new ripping method is consequence of sloppy security work. Leaving the ability to automatically execute commands that kill the password hashes file and start inetd, allowing to telnet in as root with no password, well, is a bit amateurish. Everybody does mistakes, we security experts miss vulnerabilities all the time, but exploits through autoexec scripts are soooo '90s.

 

Mind you, if you insert a Blu Ray disc, you can even copy its image to an external disc and then process it on your computer. You can verify you have access... these are the security holes that can expose you to liabilities (not because of the BD image ripping though) and I expect that firmware updates may close it as soon as somebody exploits this to leak streamed content.

 

Roberto

 

 

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[mocenigo]

Exactly. Not sure about saying "it starts at the stereo area". They are just files, the order/layout of them on the disc is probably not defined.

 

The layout is actually defined. First the stereo then the mch part.

 

Roberto

 

 

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[mocenigo]

Very good to know this, bug there's a couple of problems that i can see:

1) multiple sacd-set where the title doesn't change and you can't see this until it start ripping; this would overwrite the previous rip with the same name (case in point: Springsteen Live in NYC will overwrite; correctly-labeled differently disc1/2: battiato last summer dance)

2) let's assume you're telnetting from a smartphone: if you disconnect the phone after you launched the rip, you have no clue when the rip is done. How to solve this?

 

1) Well, if the file name does not contain a string like DISC 1" I use the "mv" command to change the name before ripping the next one.

 

2) If you disconnect the phone or the computer, the ripping process will actually be killed also on the Pioneer (there is a way to "detach" from the tty, but you will not know when it ends.

 

Roberto

 

 

 

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[mocenigo]

Was suspecting just that...

Does the ripping script works also on xp? Currently using w7, but i have something old on xp that could do the task... anyone?

 

Well I do not see why not. Putty works on xp.

And if the sonore iso2dsd app works under xp (I have no idea) the xp is fine

 

 

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[mocenigo]

Can clear the dst setting, it's for compressed data. I haven't come across a dst SACD disc as yet..

 

This is weird. Almost all SACDs use DST compression. If you have a SACD with both 2ch and mch versions, you will see that the 2ch part, once you tick the DST conversion, is almost as large as the whole ISO. The mch part can literally "explode". Example, a 3Gb ISO will often expand to a ~3Gb 2ch mix and a ~7.5Gb 5.1 mix. The two sections are usually about 1.2-1.5Gb and 1.5-1.8Gb compressed, respectively. The actual numbers may be slightly off because I am going from memory (not at home at the moment).

 

The reason for the different compression ratios is that most 2ch mixes are edited unchanged, whereas the mch are first passed through a filter to remove the highest frequencies to improve the compression ratio, which means that the mch mix has individual tracks of possibly slightly lower quality. With larger images, sometimes BOTH are filtered with the mch mix filtered in a heavier way.

 

You can keep DST compression in the Philips format, not in the SONY format (IIRC).

 

If you keep the DST compression, your player will expand it in real time. If you have a single computer setup this may impact sound quality, because DST expansion is a heavy process (SACD players have hardware that do that, but this process can keep a single core of a modern intel chip occupied) and thus there may be more electrics noise in the audio chain (in this case filters on the USB connection and on the power supply will mitigate).

 

Roberto

 

 

 

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[mocenigo]

Thanks, will try.

 

A question that is half-related to the topic: ripped a sacd without any information on it, no tracks, no names etc (disc is Maceo Parker School's In), there's a way to edit the ISO in order to put inside the missing infos or what other kind of solution is possible to use? As a player i'm using Foobar which deal with ISO just fine.

 

Sorry, I can't help with this because I do to use ISOs. Just download mp3tag and try. There are only two options: either it works, or it doesn't :-)

 

 

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[mocenigo]

Multiple discs will just add a number to the end. For example Roger Waters In The Flesh shows that title for disc one, but for disc two adds (1) to the end of the title. Nothing is overwritten on multiple disc sets.

 

We were talking here about the LOCAL ripping with a disc attached to the BD player, not the client/server configuration over network. In this case there is no "(1)" attached for disc two (and also no automatic splitting of images larger than 4Gb, in contrast to the PS3).

 

 

 

 

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[mocenigo]

Anyway, we are really splitting hairs in four. We are blessed with a silly and soooo easily exploitable security vulnerability that gives us SACD ripping on NEW hardware (instead of relying on 10+ year old SONY mechs). Even if we have to go through a few hoops, having to rename files or suboptimal ripping speeds when through the player's WLAN are something we can probably live with ;-)

 

 

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[mocenigo]

Appreciate the info so far! Of course I had to try my SONY BDP-S590 just for the heck of it...the Autoscript works at least, as does the script with the TELNETD setting. Got this on the telnet uname -a:

 

Linux sony-player 2.6.35 #1 PREEMPT Wed Jul 11 19:37:04 JST 2012 armv6l GNU/Linux

 

So strikes one/two/three, right off the bat. And when I try to run the EXE, it crashes on my Win10 device. Oh well.

 

Could you rip in the meantime? (Maybe copying locally to removable media?)

 

 

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[mocenigo]

Nah, didn't work. Needed the libiconv.so.2 first off (grabbed that from one of the earlier posts). Ran the binary via telnet, got this:

 

/mnt/sda1/AutoScript # ./sacd_extract -I

insmod: can't insert '/tmp/filevKgrMe': invalid module format

[0]: install_modules: mknod/insmod filed

rmmod: can't unload 'sacd_read': unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter

[0]: Can not install modules

 

Again, my assumption here is that it's the wrong chipset, where the tool simply doesn't work. Worth an attempt however.

 

I am not sure the chipset makes per se ripping impossible. This seems just that the tools are. It compiled for the target platform. You can get inside, as root, and thus have access to the SACD device. Ripping should be possible - but the Pioneer and OPPO tools may not be able to run unchanged.

 

Roberto

 

 

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[mocenigo]

(deleted)

[mocenigo]

Cool, that's what I meant.

 

Side question as the thread is about specific players: is it feasible to downgrade the firmware on a PS3?

 

I assume you mean downgrade from a stock FW > 3.55.

 

Th answer is yes, but you need to erase its internal NAND flash which means you need to perform a hardware hack. The tools are not expensive and the complexity is moderate. Some shops perform this for about 40€/50$.

 

There are folks that promise SW only downgrades, but they are scammers.

 

Roberto

 

 

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