SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

[austinpop]

Success with Oppo BDP-105D!

 

I used Windows 10, so used Kal's steps. It all worked smoothly.

 

Some notes:

• I compared the ISO I generated to a prior PS3 rip. It was exactly the same size, and the same MD5 hash code.
  
• BTW, if you want a native Windows 10 way to compute the MD5 on a file, use the following:
  
  • certutil -hashfile <your-file> MD5
    

   

  [*]Conversion rate started slow, but ended at 3.06 MB/s

  [*]I did have a warning about properties not being copied when I dragged the AutoScript folder over to the USB drive.

  • I eventually just started a cmd window in Admin mode, and did the following:
    
    • Create a dir called AutoScript on the USB drive
      
    • used Windows "copy" cmd to copy the 3 files over to the folder
      

     

    [*]Not sure what the properties warning was, but using the above, it worked perfectly

[austinpop]

I'm using the files from Ted's Dropbox folder in post #26.

 

Make sure you preserved the directory structure on the USB drive. Make sure it is <drive letter>:\AutoScript\<3 files>. See my experience in post 154.

[austinpop]

Question: sacd_extract command line tool and avoiding clicks

sacd_extract reportedly has a bug that can cause clicks or other discontinuities between tracks when converting from ISO directly to DSF.

 

The solution, according to much discussion over the last two years, is to:

(1) use sacd_extract to convert ISO to DFF; then

(2) use Miska's DFF2DSF tool to convert the DFF to DSF.

 

Step (1) remains unclear to me. Should I use the -p switch to split the ISO into multiple DFF files, or should I use the -e switch to convert the ISO to a single DFF "edit master" file? Does the first option overcome the bug in sacd_extract? The second option seems useless because Miska's DFF2DSF tool does not seem to split a single DFF file into multiple DSF files.

 

While it is true that there was a bug in sacd_extract that was fixed in v0.38, it is also true that the problem of pop/ticks/clicks at track boundaries still exists in a post v0.38 world. As before, it seems to vary based on the choice of renderer or DAC, and can occur even on DFF files. Some have claimed it happens when the amplitudes at the end of the current track and the beginning of the next track are either a) not zero, or b) not equal, but I haven't seen anyone definitively get to the bottom this.

 

See http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/sacd-iso-dsf-no-clicks-23588/index3.html#post562664

[austinpop]

Has anybody running the new beta on an Oppo successfully ripped a disc? Someone said it allegedly works, but I'd like to hear first hand. That beta has a couple important fixes for me.

 

Great question.

 

My successful rips were with BDP10X-80-1031, the latest official release.

 

Would be great to confirm success on the beta BDP10X-83-0715B.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[austinpop]

Max - AFAIK, the Oppo 105 and D are still restricted to stereo only via USB. Mch is only via HDMI.

 

Why use USB or HDMI? Use the network. The Oppos have built in UPnP/DLNA and SMB client capability. As long as you're running a DLNA server on your network (I recommend running MinimServer on your NAS), or even if your files are on a network share (SMB), you can locate and playback Mch DSF files.

 

On DSD, this is limited to DSD64 only, but PCM goes to at least 24/192.

 

I only use USB as a last resort!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[austinpop]

Just a smidge over 3 MBps using an Oppo 105D to a Win 10 machine with i7 processor and SSD.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[austinpop]

LAN or WIFI?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

LAN.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[austinpop]

so my former boss who also has quite a large sacd collection sent me this, any ideas

 

Musicaphon M56886, Mozart, Haydn Fruhe Werke

PentaTone PTC 5186 503, Bruch/Korngold violin ctos, Steinbacher

EMI Classics 5099 9 55978 2 9, Beethoven triple cto/Brahms double cto

Chandos CHSA 5123, Szymanowski Stabat Mater

PentaTone PTC 5186 510, Prokofiev/Khachachurian piano ctos., Arghamanyan

PentaTone PTC 5186 212, Berlioz, Damnation of Faust

PentaTone PTC 5186 557, Russian Dances

PentaTone PTC 5186 227, LaSalle Qt., Schubert/Schumann

Chandos CHSA 5167, Tchaikovsky/Khachachurian piano ctos., Wang

 

The software reads the disc and the information on it, opens a folder and then immediately says “we are done” without writing any files to the folder. Raw ISO rip works fine, but I can’t rip dff files from the ISO file either. Most of these are newer discs (all of the PentaTone problem discs – although some are from old recordings – both Chandos are new), but the EMI Classics and Musicaphon are discs a few years old.

 

I may have one or more of these titles myself, have not looked yet, and he has not tried dsf output instead.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Not sure what question you're really asking?

 

Looking at your list, I know for sure I have the Bruch/Korngold Pentatone. I might have a couple more.

 

I know I was able to successfully rip all the way to DSF files, using my Oppo 105D.

 

I always do it in 2 (or 3) steps, using the iso_2_dsd_v7 GUI unless otherwise indicated.

1. Extract ISO file: options on iso2dsd:
   


1. Server input
   
2. Raw ISO output
   
3. other flags irrelevant
   

 

[*]Extract DSF from ISO:

1. file input - select the ISO file
   
2. Sony DSF output
   
3. stereo (or multi) - each is a separate extraction
   
4. check the DST flag
   

 

[*]Sometimes - the above fails due to long filenames. In those cases, I use Bogi's ISO2DSF tool.

 

I can't remember now if the Bruch/Korngold required 2 or 3, but either way, I got the end result.

[austinpop]

Dematerialize: "replace (physical records or certificates) with a paperless computerized system."

 

Another factoid to impress your friends...

 

In India, investment accounts that hold stocks, bonds, or other instruments are called Demat accounts, and there was a big push several years ago to get people who were holding physical certificates to bring them in and have them "dematerialized."

 

Very apt term for ripping music to files!

[austinpop]

My Oppo 203 arrived yesterday and I'll install it tomorrow. I already ripped my SACDs but will experiment and see if the script works. I should get to soon unless someone knows that it won't work.

 

Thanks in advance for volunteering to do that!

[austinpop]

Just joined the forum to express my appreciation to ted_b and to you austinpop for pointing out my schoolboy error. I had the Autoscript file at the root rather than in a folder called Autoexpress and the tray wouldn't open. Once I moved the file into the folder it worked a charm. Fantastic stuff so thanks again for all your hard work.

 

edit this is on a BPD-103D with the current firmware and multi-region hack

 

Welcome to CA!

 

Glad we could help. Enjoy your SACD rips.

[austinpop]

That may be a little faster than using the Sonore GUI, but not as fast as I recall on Windows. I want to test with Windows to be sure before going further....

Hi Jud,

 

Yes, a direct comparison, i.e. a benchmark test, would be best.

 

So far, all your data does point to unoptimized compilation of the sacd_extract application. Recall that when an application runs, time is either spent:

1. in sacd_extract code
   
2. in other shared libraries
   
3. in the kernel, executing system services like I/O
   
4. idle - for a variety of reasons
   

 

The compilation optimization only affects the first item. Now, consider your 3 scenarios/hypotheses.

• Java is slowing you down.
  
  • Not really. The Java app ISO2DSD_V7 "calls" the sacd_extract executable via a Java method call. There's a small overhead to this, but once invoked, the Java app is out of the picture until the invocation completes.
    

   

  [*]ISO extraction seems to be just fine/fast enough

  • Here, the bulk of time is spent reading packets off the network, and writing them into file blocks. In other words, this is I/O intensive, not CPU-intensive. Your execution time is spent mostly in items 2, 3, and 4 above, which are not affected by the optimizations used to compile sacd_extract.
    

   

  [*]Extracting into DSF's. This is the CPU-intensive bit, and where decryption happens. Here, most of your execution time is spent in items 1 and 2.

 

Of course, the above is a bit simplistic.

 

Look forward to your comparison.

[austinpop]

Yep, in fact the difference is even greater than I recalled. About 9-10 times faster for me on Windows (.61-.75MB/s on Mac, 6.5-6.7MB/s on Windows).

 

Yikes!

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, louisxiawei said:

Thank you my friend, one kind gent just helped me out. Thank you all the same.

 

Glad to hear. That was the outcome I was hoping for, given the great folks here on CA.

[austinpop]

Where is the wiki feature when you need it?! ?

 

Serioudly a wiki attached to this topic that can be group edited would be ideal... but I don't believe the new CA has such.

[austinpop]

Hi All,

 

There are several threads like this one, which have grown into monsters, albeit really helpful ones, over time. I've felt for some time that we need some kind of index/FAQ that could be pinned in some way, to which we can point folks to the "good stuff."

 

After some discussion and consideration of the possibilities with @The Computer Audiophile, he has just announced a new feature, that allows the OP to edit the first post in a thread in perpetuity.

This enables the creation of an index, but someone has to curate it. @ted_b started this thread, so by default, he has the edit authority of the original post. However, Chris has indicated that he can manually assign edit authority to an alternate of the OP's choosing.

 

Ted, your thoughts are welcome here. Feel free to put out a call for volunteers!

[austinpop]

Quote

Is the creation of an index the only thing this new authority allows? 

 

The new feature allows the first post of a thread to be editable forever by the OP (or designate). That's all. The index is just an idea for how to use this feature.

 

Quote

And what is the mission of this index? 

 

 

I was hoping it's obvious. There are 86 pages to this thread, and embedded within it are some very useful posts. An index allows newbies some way to get at the good stuff quickly without having the daunting task of reading the entire thread or using searches to glean help within the thread.

 

Quote

Will the index be used to indicate what is or is not on- or off-topic and will information that is determined to be off-topic still remain available or will it be eliminated somehow. 

 

It's up to the OP or designate to determine what else to maintain in the first post. Posting guidelines are certainly possible.

 

Quote

Finally, I am assuming it's the OP, or others so designated, that determines what's appropriate for indexing and what is not to be indexed.

 

Yes, although nothing stops others to nominate candidate posts or content to the index. However, what makes it into the first post is ultimately up to the OP/designate.

[austinpop]

6 hours ago, ted_b said:

2)  To make a very long story short, my health took a hit (I'm fine overall) and I'm still buried from all the non-activity as I recuperate.  I could use some real help here, even as far as nominating an editor.   I know there are clearly best-practices posts, and those posts would clear up a lot of confusion about best links, best setups, etc...and remove all the noise about non Mediatek-capable chipsets,  Oppo 2xx series, Bluray, etc.

 

Ted, 

 

I'm very sorry to hear that your health took a hit. I think it is perfectly fair for someone else to volunteer for the index creation.

 

I would suggest that even that responsibility can be shared. I believe only one person can have the actual edit authority - is that right, @The Computer Audiophile? - but there is no reason that the actual curation can't be a group effort, with one person volunteering for the actual editing role, but delegating specific subjects to other volunteers who supply their portion of the index.

 

Divide and conquer.

[austinpop]

Hi folks,

 

I haven't been active in this thread for a couple of years, but have watched with admiration as some of you have really taken this topic forward - both in terms of discovering players that can rip SACDs and in terms of software, like the new SACDExtractGUI.

 

One area that is still a problem for me is the issue of pops/crackles on track boundaries. Usually this is not much of an issue, but it seems to really become problematic when track boundaries are in the middle of a piece. Right now, I'm grappling with this album:

 

This symphony has 5 movements, but is sliced into 42 tracks. Indeed - movement 1 alone has 14 tracks. When I first ripped this album back when @ted_b started this topic, I struggled with pops/crackles, and eventually found the only solution was to rip each entire ISO as a single track, which is how I've been listening.

 

I have 2 questions to pose to the group experts:

1. has there been any progress on this pop/crackle issue in later releases of sacd_extract? I know there was a bug before v0.3.8 that put a non-zero offset at a track boundary, which was fixed. However, that didn't completely solve the issue. I suspect there hasn't been, as I just reripped the DSF files from the ISOs with the latest version of the tools, and the pops are still there.
2. Can anyone give me a brief primer on how to set my own track boundaries? Currently, the 2nd ISO contains movements 2-5, and I have it ripped as a single large DSF file. I'd like to create a custom file (CUE?) where I can tell sacd_extract to create a separate DSF file for each movement. As I understand it, the pop/crackle happens when the track boundary occurs at a point where the audio signal is not silent. I'm thinking if I can hand-pick points track boundaries during a silence, I may be able to eliminate (or greatly minimize) the pops.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[austinpop]

I've now tried v0.3.9 as well as the pre-release v0.3.9.3 from Eugen above, but neither solve the pops.

 

I now remember what I had done. I had extracted each ISO (disc 1 = movement 1, disc 2 = movements 2-5) as a single DFF file (using the option "Philips DSDIFF (Edit Master) file"), and then just converted to DSF using dff2dsf.exe.

 

I think I'll just live with this approach.

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, ted_b said:

Have you tried Bogi's ISO to DSF utility?  It is intended to convert ripped ISO first to DFF tracks (eliminating the track pops due to a DSF bug) and then automatically converts to DSF, and you're done...and you have pop-free DSF tracks.  Is right-click (context menu) capable.

 

 

Yes Ted, I've tried that long ago. It didn't solve the problem.

 

I've been struggling with this issue for years. The sacd_extract fix from v0.3.8 did help, but there is still an issue.

 

The issue appears to be related to track boundaries when the logical "level" is not zero, because it's in the middle of a piece. It could also be my DAC dropping DoP lock momentarily. 

[austinpop]

Thanks for your responses, @Kal Rubinson and @MikeyFresh . Yes, this is a tough issue that we've all been dealing with for many years. As Kal said, the pops/ticks aren't loud, but especially on headphones, extremely audible. I've verified it on Euphony/Stylus (my primary player), and also Roon.

 

As I said, I'm fine with my interim solution of one gigantic dsf file for movements 2-5 for this particular disc. The one thing I would like to explore is to move the track boundaries to the logical silences between tracks to see:

1. whether this eliminates to pops, or at least
2. moves it to an inter-movement silence, where it's harmless.

Just from listening, I've identified the ideal time stamps of 11:05, 22:01, and 27:30 as the perfect break points. What I'd like to do is break this ISO up into 4 parts - movements 2, 3, 4, and 5. To do this, I would need to:

1. rip the ISO into a single DFF using the DSDIFF edit master flag. DONE. The resulting CUE file is attached. Latonia Moore, soprano - Gustav Mahler Symphony No. 2 Resurrection . Version from.cue
2. modify this file into a custom CUE file to define 4 tracks with the above track boundaries. I don't know how to do this, but hoping someone here can help me. 
3. run a tool to take the original DFF from step 1, and splits it into 4 using the custom CUE file. This is the biggie. Does such a tool exist? I don't think the free tools embedded in iso_2_dsd, SACDExtractGUI, and ISO2DSF have this capability, but maybe I'm wrong?
4. Final step is trivial - convert resulting dff's to dsf using the dff2dsf tool.

 

[austinpop]

On 1/26/2020 at 4:40 PM, austinpop said:

One area that is still a problem for me is the issue of pops/crackles on track boundaries.

 

I've had a breakthrough here! At the same time, I need to eat some crow, as I goofed up in my earlier experiments.  First the breakthrough: my pops/ticks/crackles are mostly fixed by running:

• SACDExtractGUI with the option "Padding-less DSF"

I still get a tick when I jump to a different track in the play queue. BUT - there is no pop/tick during normal gapless playback at track boundaries. This is a huge improvement! Whoever implemented the -z/-dsf-nopad option on sacd_extract: thank you!

 

Now the crow part. I think I mentioned in my previous posts that I had tried SACDExtractGUI. I hadn't. I had run into an issue where I was getting an error, so I had taken the sacd_extract.exe from the SACDExtractGUI package and substituted it into ISO2DSD. Of course, in hindsight, I realize my stupidity, because ISO2DSD does not invoke the -dsf-nopad parameter of sacd_extract. Oy vey! 🤦‍♂️

 

This time around, I fixed the issue I was having in SACDExtractGUI, which was the usual "too long pathname" issue. Once I fixed it, the extraction of DSF files from the ISO worked fine, and with the -dsf-nopad, I finally have a pop/tick-less Kaplan-Mahler!

 

Apologies for the wild goose chase - or is it red herring?!

 

[austinpop]

1 minute ago, MikeyFresh said:

You now have the state-of-the-art tool, and Padding-less DSF is not the only useful feature, the Concurrent Mode (ISO+DSF) and the ability to choose your Output Directory are also excellent enhancements, as are the Ping and Test buttons for those trying to troubleshoot problems.

 

Indeed, I have already tried and love all those new features. Kudos to @mindset!

[austinpop]

This is the post I bookmarked, but I'm not sure if it's the latest place to get it?

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/28569-sacd-ripping-using-an-oppo-or-pioneer-yes-its-true/?do=findComment&comment=944298