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Has anyone else seen this phenomenon before?


gmgraves
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I am not really a fan of MP3, but occasionally, for lighter listening fare, I will buy an MP3 rip of a CD from Amazon. As most probably know, Amazon's music download service is designed to download to one's computer via the Amazon Music App. Now, I stream my Mac Mini/iTunes based music library via wifi using a Squeezebox Touch from Logitech and it generally works pretty well. I can put all compatible formats in my iTunes folder and Logitech's Media Server app will allow them to show-up on my Squeezebox as playable files, up to 24/96.

 

When I download an MP3 from Amazon, the Amazon Music app automatically copies the download to iTunes, which is great, but occasionally, when I go to listen on my main stereo via the Squeezebox, the file suddenly contains TWO of every cut. Looking at the file in iTunes does not reflect this, and playing directly out of iTunes to my desktop system works perfectly, with no duplicate files.

 

Sometimes, I can clear this error by going into the "iTunes Music" folder and moving the offending album directory to the desktop, and opening the iTunes App and then deleting the matching item in iTunes. After doing that, I quit iTunes, and then move the album directory BACK into the "iTunes Music" folder and then I open the iTunes App again and re-import the item. Many times this clears the "double cuts" problem on the Squeezebox Touch, but on some Amazon downloads, nothing I do will clear the double cuts problem. Perhaps if I knew what was causing this error, I could develop a strategy that would consistently solve the problem.

 

Because there are three different corporations and three different pieces of software involved in this problem: Amazon, Apple and Logitech, getting help from any of their support people is, as one would expect, impossible as each says that the problem is with one of the other two entities involved.

 

Has anyone encountered this problem? Does anyone know what the cause is and most importantly how to fix it? I'm pulling my hair out here!

 

Thanks in advance.

George

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All I can offer is solace you aren't alone. I don't Mac myself.

 

A friend has your exact problem. Sometimes fixes it temporarily in the ways you describe, but nothing works for long. For the time being he plugged up his CD player again. Not a good outcome I am afraid.

 

Mac or no, how do you folks tolerate iTunes?

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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Hard to say, but two things I'd try:

 

1. Check if the offending files have any unusual tags in them, e.g. ALBUMARTIST, BAND. These could cause them to be listed twice in Logitech Media Server. Mp3tag is a good application for looking at tags.

 

2. In older versions of LMS there was something called "iTunes Integration". You might try turning this off as it's not particularly useful and does sometimes cause problems. Best advice I can give you is to run the 7.9 beta of LMS as it is rock-solid, has a number of useful new features, and as far as I can tell has eliminated this option.

 

More information:

Mp3tag - the universal Tag Editor (ID3v2, MP4, OGG, FLAC, ...)

Some Software Beta Downloads - Version 7.9

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All I can offer is solace you aren't alone. I don't Mac myself.

 

A friend has your exact problem. Sometimes fixes it temporarily in the ways you describe, but nothing works for long. For the time being he plugged up his CD player again. Not a good outcome I am afraid.

 

Mac or no, how do you folks tolerate iTunes?

 

 

Thanks for the info! As for iTunes, I only use it for 16/44.1 files, I never buy music from Apple because it usually sounds lousy and I use it to rip CDs that I buy and I always rip to Apple Lossless which sounds fine. Does it have quirks? You bet. Is it a pain in the ass sometimes (especially with multi-disc sets)? Yeah. Is it a real bear with compilation discs containing many different artists and/or composers? Absolutely. Is Apple as cavalier about fixing these problems as Microsoft is about fixing Windows' myriad of problems and clumsy interface issues (some of which have been there since Win 3.1!)? Oh, yeah. But I have JRiver Media Player on my Win Laptop and believe me it's even more arcane, picky, and difficult to deal with.

George

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Hard to say, but two things I'd try:

 

1. Check if the offending files have any unusual tags in them, e.g. ALBUMARTIST, BAND. These could cause them to be listed twice in Logitech Media Server. Mp3tag is a good application for looking at tags.

 

2. In older versions of LMS there was something called "iTunes Integration". You might try turning this off as it's not particularly useful and does sometimes cause problems. Best advice I can give you is to run the 7.9 beta of LMS as it is rock-solid, has a number of useful new features, and as far as I can tell has eliminated this option.

 

More information:

Mp3tag - the universal Tag Editor (ID3v2, MP4, OGG, FLAC, ...)

Some Software Beta Downloads - Version 7.9

 

Thanks for the heads-up on LMS 7.9, I was running 7.2. I just installed it. I'll let you know if it solved the problem.

George

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When you download from Amazon, it is probably putting the file someplace that LMS scans, and iTunes later moves the file. I would check your LMS settings that detail the directories it is looking at, and just have it pull from the iTunes XML library file.

 

Or conversely, just have LMS scan the media folders form iTunes and not use the iTunes library interface.

 

Funny thing - I think that most Apple downloads in AAC sound better than the MP3s from Amazon. Drives me nuts. :)

 

-Paul

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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@ gmgraves You 'never buy music from Apple because it usually sounds lousy' but you buy MP3 from other source.. That doesn't make any sense to me.

What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well.
It helps men to rise above themselves.
 
  ―  Albert Camus, The Plague.

 

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Thanks for the heads-up on LMS 7.9, I was running 7.2. I just installed it. I'll let you know if it solved the problem.

 

Some great new features in 7.9: Random Albums, Additional Browse Modes, and Full-Text Search. I've learned that "iTunes Integration" is still there; just not visible to me as I don't have iTunes installed (makes sense). Did you do a "Clear library and rescan everything" (full rescan) after updating to 7.9? Anytime I have tag issues like you describe a full rescan usually fixes it.

 

You may find help at Squeezebox forums. Here's a recent thread regarding a similar issue:

Duplicate Songs

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Thanks for the heads-up on LMS 7.9, I was running 7.2. I just installed it. I'll let you know if it solved the problem.

 

plus, with LMS 7.9, you can playback DSD (with LMS plugin) - although I know this isn't a biggie for you :)

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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My experience is a double/multiple types of tags even though the extra(s) can be hard to see. The only thing I have found to work reliably is to use MP3Tag and strip all the tags and redo.

QNAP TS453Pro w/QLMS->Netgear Switch->Netgear R7800 Router->Ethernet (50 ft)->Netgear switch->SBT->iFi xDSD->Linn Majik-IL (preamp)->Linn 2250->Linn Keilidh; Control Points: Squeeze Commander (DroidX) & iPeng (iPad Air); Also: Rega P3-24 w/ DV 10x5; OPPO 103; PC Playback: Foobar2000 & JRiver; Portable: Sony NWZ_ZX1 & ZX2 w/ PHA-3; SMSL IQ, Fiio Q5, iFi Nano iDSD BL; Garage: Edifier S1000DB Active Speakers  Wish List: New DAC,  SBT replacement; Dream system: Linn EXACT or ATC Active or Big Tubes (KR or Nagra or Shindo or ...)

 

My goal is to use appliances and take home PC out of the chain...

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@ gmgraves You 'never buy music from Apple because it usually sounds lousy' but you buy MP3 from other source.. That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

 

Apple's downloads are always very distorted sounding (in my experience. I've only downloaded a few things from them. Once burned, twice shy - as they say. Only it took three tries for me and the Apple iTunes store). Amazon says that their MP3s are 212 kbps, which is high enough to have few audible artifacts, and for the most part they are fine for casual listening. I've never gotten a bad one from them. Wish I could say that about the iTunes Store! Keep in mind that I don't download any rock-'n-roll or "pop". My music is mostly classical, some acoustic jazz and movie soundtracks. This kind of music might be more revealing of distortion than would rock (I'm guessing here, though. I don't see how anyone can tell about audio quality with pop music, it seems so poorly recorded to my untrained (in the subtleties of rock) ears). :)

George

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Some great new features in 7.9: Random Albums, Additional Browse Modes, and Full-Text Search. I've learned that "iTunes Integration" is still there; just not visible to me as I don't have iTunes installed (makes sense). Did you do a "Clear library and rescan everything" (full rescan) after updating to 7.9? Anytime I have tag issues like you describe a full rescan usually fixes it.

 

You may find help at Squeezebox forums. Here's a recent thread regarding a similar issue:

Duplicate Songs

 

 

So far, no joy. But I will try removing the playlist files out of iTunes and I will, once again clear and rescan. Thanks again.

George

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Sometimes, I can clear this error by going into the "iTunes Music" folder and moving the offending album directory to the desktop, and opening the iTunes App and then deleting the matching item in iTunes. After doing that, I quit iTunes, and then move the album directory BACK into the "iTunes Music" folder and then I open the iTunes App again and re-import the item. Many times this clears the "double cuts" problem on the Squeezebox Touch, but on some Amazon downloads, nothing I do will clear the double cuts problem. Perhaps if I knew what was causing this error, I could develop a strategy that would consistently solve the problem.

 

When you say "the file suddenly contains two of every cut" do you mean "the folder suddenly contains two of every file" or do you mean there's literally two consecutive audio streams in each file? I assume the former...

 

My money's on Paul R's suggestion providing a pointer. Something is copying music files, and iTunes is known to do this when you have certain options enabled.

 

bliss - fully automated music organizer. Read the music library management blog.

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Amazon says that their MP3s are 212 kbps, which is high enough to have few audible artifacts

Sorry, but if this is what you think about 212kbps MP3..

I'll stop here..

What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well.
It helps men to rise above themselves.
 
  ―  Albert Camus, The Plague.

 

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Well, I was able to fix it.

 

Used the path: System Preferences/Logitech Media Server/Advanced settings/localhost/Basic settings:

Changed "Media Server" from 'Users/MacMini/Music' to 'Users/MacMini/Music/iTunes'. This forced the server look only in the iTunes folder for music files.

 

Then I did a "run cleanup" with delete preferences and clean cache selected followed by a "clear library and re-scan everything". That seemed to have fixed the problem.

 

What I think was going on was that the "Amazon Music" folder was in the Mini's Music folder and LMS was seeing two instances of these titles (one in iTunes, the other in Amazon Music), and then dutifully registered both instances which show up on the Squeezebox Touch as two of each cut in the duplicated albums.

 

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions that you folks have given me. This really is a community and a valuable one at that (despite all the bickering). When the chips are down CA comes through!

George

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Sorry, but if this is what you think about 212kbps MP3..

I'll stop here..

 

I didn't say it was perfect, I said it had "few audible artifacts" and that's a relative statement. Compared to Apple's iTunes Store's data rate (I don't know what it is, but it's lower than Amazon's) there are far fewer artifacts and frankly, on speakers, 212 kbps is quite listenable but I can certainly, easily hear the artifacts on 'phones! The only MP3 files that I have ever found to be totally transparent was a 320 kbps file that a friend sent me once.

George

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When you say "the file suddenly contains two of every cut" do you mean "the folder suddenly contains two of every file" or do you mean there's literally two consecutive audio streams in each file? I assume the former...

 

My money's on Paul R's suggestion providing a pointer. Something is copying music files, and iTunes is known to do this when you have certain options enabled.

 

The former: On the Squeezebox Touch player, each cut shows up consecutively, twice. Like this:

 

Cut 1

Cut 1

Cut 2

Cut 2

etc.

And the player then plays each cut twice which is very annoying, causing me to have to manually skip each redundant cut when listening to that album.

 

The cuts aren't redundant in iTunes, merely on the Squeezebox Touch, so it's the LMS that doing the doubling-up, not iTunes. I fixed it by changing LMS search path to ONLY look in the iTunes folder for music files, that way, if there is a duplicate file for that music album in another directory, LMS won't see it.

George

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