Verification of JRiver to foo_asio for DSD conversion

[BlueRCF]

Hello,

 

I found some info on this site regarding the use of foo_asio to convert streams such as Tidal or Spotify to DSD in real time.

However, I have the Resonessence Herus DAC, and it provides no software monitor or hardware display to tell you what it is doing.

 

How do I know if it is working and not just outputting the PCM received from JRiver?

 

Also, just a few minutes ago, when an actual DSD file in my JRiver library played out to foo_asio, nothing happened---I stopped hearing any playback. Any ideas on what is wrong?

[BlueRCF]

Can anyone help me out on this?

[Nikhil]

BlueRCF,

 

As far as I know, foo_asio is a Foobar module. JRiver does not need it to convert to DSD.

 

In JRiver:

Tools > Options > Audio > DSP& Output Format > Output Encoding > Select DSD method as per your DAC.

 

Hope this helps.

[BlueRCF]

BlueRCF,

 

As far as I know, foo_asio is a Foobar module. JRiver does not need it to convert to DSD.

 

In JRiver:

Tools > Options > Audio > DSP& Output Format > Output Encoding > Select DSD method as per your DAC.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks, but I was asking for information on how to confirm foo_asio operation.

 

I am aware of what JRiver can and cannot do, and it cannot convert streams, only your actual locally based files.

[ted_b]

Thanks, but I was asking for information on how to confirm foo_asio operation.

 

I am aware of what JRiver can and cannot do, and it cannot convert streams, only your actual locally based files.

 

?? Nikhil is correct, Foo_anything is a foobar plugin, not for JRiver. And no, Jriver can convert streams easily, using it's WDM driver for your streaming sources. I played Tidal back in DSD (upsampled via JRIver of course).

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WDM_Driver

[BlueRCF]

Very cool. I just tried it, and it basically works though seems a bit crackly at times. Thanks.

 

However, using foo_asio as an output for JRiver is something I learned about from this very site.

I would still like to confirm if it is working as intended or not.

 

To clarify, PCM content does play when foo_asio is set as the output, and foo_asio is set to output to my DAC.

I just wanted to confirm if foo_asio is actually converting to DSD or not and why I lost playback when JRiver switched from a PCM track to a DSD track.

[BlueRCF]

Well, maybe it is something wrong with my system, but it is too unstable.

Just maxed both buffers to 500 without any change. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

This is what I had experienced before trying to get JRiver to upconvert streams a few years ago.

The response from JRiver at the time was "unsupported with no plans to implement such functionality".

 

So, back to the original topic, can anyone help?

[jcn3]

Very cool. I just tried it, and it basically works though seems a bit crackly at times. Thanks.

 

However, using foo_asio as an output for JRiver is something I learned about from this very site.

I would still like to confirm if it is working as intended or not.

 

To clarify, PCM content does play when foo_asio is set as the output, and foo_asio is set to output to my DAC.

I just wanted to confirm if foo_asio is actually converting to DSD or not and why I lost playback when JRiver switched from a PCM track to a DSD track.

 

as ted_b and nikhil said, foo_asio is only for foobar2000 -- it doesn't work with jriver.

 

if you found info on this site, please post a link for reference.

[BlueRCF]

Sure it does.

 

I don't need arguments as to the validity of the method and "Prove IT!" responses.

JRiver to foo_asio is working, I want to verify if foo_asio is doing what I told it to do.

 

No more comments on JRiver can't do that. Just stay out of the thread or admins can just close it.

[jcn3]

well, thanks. and welcome to ca -- its a pleasure to have you here.

[mwheelerk]

So let me see if I understand correctly. Don't tell me I am wrong. Only tell me that I am right and how I can verify that I am right.

[BlueRCF]

Nope, the request was simply:

 

How can I make sure that foo_asio is doing the pcm to dsd conversion and not simply outputting pcm.

 

Really don't understand why the request itself is so difficult to comprehend.

[mm67]

Indicator led on iFi nano iDSD shows that's it's receiving DSD256 signal as set on foo_dsd_asio

[BlueRCF]

That's cool mate. I wish my dac had a similar feature. It doesn't; hence this thread.

[ted_b]

Indicator led on iFi nano iDSD shows that's it's receiving DSD256 signal as set on foo_dsd_asio

 

You'er using foo_dsd-asio in JRiver? And it works at DSD256 via JRIver?

 

BTW, foo_DSD_asio is not foo_asio (OP subject) so not sure what we're discussing here, and what the OP is trying to do with non-Jriver plugins.

[mm67]

You'er using foo_dsd-asio in JRiver? And it works at DSD256 via JRIver?

 

BTW, foo_DSD_asio is not foo_asio (OP subject) so not sure what we're discussing here, and what the OP is trying to do with non-Jriver plugins.

 

Yes, that plugin works just fine with Jriver and it's a much lighter load for cpu than JRivers integrated upsamplimg, even an old i3 can easily output DSD256. I assumed that OP was actually talking about foo_dsd_asio plugin since I don't see how it would be possible to use foo_asio for DSD upsampling

 

edit. Haven't tried SoX upsampling of new JRiver, that might work too

[ted_b]

Yes, that plugin works just fine with Jriver and it's a much lighter load for cpu than JRivers integrated upsamplimg, even an old i3 can easily output DSD256. I assumed that OP was actually talking about foo_dsd_asio plugin since I don't see how it would be possible to use foo_asio for DSD upsampling

 

edit. Haven't tried SoX upsampling of new JRiver, that might work too

 

Yes, you stole my next question, as that is why I asked about foo_DSD_Asio...rethinking maybe it was a lighter plugin. Nice. Thanks.

 

Yes, I have no idea what OP is asking, as foo_Asio seems to be a weird choice for wanting to do DSD in JRIver. But he seems so doggedly determined for no one to question him that I gave up after mentioning WDM and seeing his responses to others.

[bogi]

Hi all,

 

here is PCM to DSD conversion quality comparison by Eurodriver (based on his listening experience) I 100% agree with:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/index6.html#post337112

 

After I compared JRiver's conversion and ASIO proxy (foo_dsd_asio) in JRiver environment, from that time I am using only foo_dsd_asio in JRiver.

 

So YES, ASIO proxy foo_dsd_asio can be used outside of Foobar2000 environment. It is not part of Foobar2000 and it has separate installation. It creates virtual ASIO output device foo_dsd_asio which can be set for example in JRiver as ASIO output device (instead of ASIO device of your DAC).

 

ASIO proxy device foo_dsd_asio can be configured:

- what to do with incoming digital audio stream (convert PCM o DSD or convert DSD to PCM or upsample DSD)

- which ASIO device should be the processing output sent to (here your DAC ASIO device is set)

 

 

Yet one note about Foobar2000: ASIO proxy device foo_dsd_asio is not required to be used in Foobar2000 to be able to listen to DSD (SACD) material. Foobar plugin foo_input_sacd provides that support and that's the thing which is Foobar2000 specific, not the ASIO proxy.

 

ASIO proxy is used to convert (DSD to PCM or PCM to DSD) and to upsample DSD material (DSD to DSD). If a Foobar2000 user doesn't need these conversions while listening to DSD material, then there is no need to use foo_dsd_asio with Foobar2000.

 

ASIO proxy foo_dsd_asio and Foobar plugin foo_input_sacd have the same author Maxim Anisiutkin and they are provided for free. Here you can see the things are provided as separate download: https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/

[ted_b]

Bogi thanks..yes many of us now have the privilege of using HQP so all this is somewhat moot, but the OP wanted to know about foo_asio, not foo_DSD-asio. My understanding of foo_asio (i.e foo_out-asio) is quite limited but thought it was foobar specific (and not a DSD capable solution). He wants to output Tidal to DSD in JRIver, which is why I told him about WDM which makes JRiver an ASIO-type output device for 3rd party players (like Tidal).

[bogi]

Bogi thanks..yes many of us now have the privilege of using HQP so all this is somewhat moot, but the OP wanted to know about foo_asio, not foo_DSD-asio. My understanding of foo_asio (i.e foo_out-asio) is quite limited but thought it was foobar specific (and not a DSD capable solution). He wants to output Tidal to DSD in JRIver, which is why I told him about WDM which makes JRiver an ASIO-type output device for 3rd party players (like Tidal).

 

OK, now I understand, thanks. foo_asio does not exist. What exists with similar name is either foo_out_asio or foo_dsd_asio. But they are very different things. I thought the opening post was about foo_dsd_asio.

 

Anyway, there is alternative solution for PCM to DSD in JRiver using foo_dsd_asio.

 

And foo_dsd_asio can be used in any player as ASIO output device, similarly as JRiver ASIO output device.

[bogi]

Hello,

 

I found some info on this site regarding the use of foo_asio to convert streams such as Tidal or Spotify to DSD in real time.

However, I have the Resonessence Herus DAC, and it provides no software monitor or hardware display to tell you what it is doing.

 

How do I know if it is working and not just outputting the PCM received from JRiver?

 

Also, just a few minutes ago, when an actual DSD file in my JRiver library played out to foo_asio, nothing happened---I stopped hearing any playback. Any ideas on what is wrong?

 

Ted, this thread is about foo_dsd_asio. The whole thread does not have sense otherwise. foo_out_asio you mentioned cannot do any PCM o DSD conversion and cannot be used outside of Foobar2000, but foo_dsd_asio can. So my contribution has sense in this thread.

 

Eurodriver, I and maybe Geoff too wrote here in more posts in the last years about the possibility to set foo_dsd_asio as ASIO output device in different programs (JRiver is only one example). BlueRCF is referring these posts. foo_dsd_asio proxy device is able o perform PCM to DSD conversion and then send the conversion output to configured "real" ASIO device.

[bogi]

However, I have the Resonessence Herus DAC, and it provides no software monitor or hardware display to tell you what it is doing.

 

How do I know if it is working and not just outputting the PCM received from JRiver?

 

Not so easy thing for you if you don't have a ASIO control Panel or DAC display to show output type and bitrate, but I am able to distinguish the difference by listening. To verify your settings, the easiest could be to borrow a DAC with display and return it after your tests.

 

To clarify, PCM content does play when foo_asio is set as the output, and foo_asio is set to output to my DAC.

I just wanted to confirm if foo_asio is actually converting to DSD or not and why I lost playback when JRiver switched from a PCM track to a DSD track.

 

You have not only to set ASIO output device in ASIO proxy control panel but also to configure it. After that it is working as intended.

 

You wrote PCM to DSD works for you with foo_dsd_asio but DSD playback doesn't work. So you have to correctly set DSD to DSD transition. You may want to do nothing, or you have to set DSD bitrate in the form of DSD64, DSD128... supported by your DAC. When you look at my picture above, it is configured for DSD128 and for DoP. In principle you can take settings from my picture above and adapt only ASIO driver, DSD playback method and Fs to values specific for your DAC.

[BlueRCF]

Not so easy thing for you if you don't have a ASIO control Panel or DAC display to show output type and bitrate, but I am able to distinguish the difference by listening. To verify your settings, the easiest could be to borrow a DAC with display and return it after your tests.

 

 

 

You have not only to set ASIO output device in ASIO proxy control panel but also to configure it. After that it is working as intended.

 

You wrote PCM to DSD works for you with foo_dsd_asio but DSD playback doesn't work. So you have to correctly set DSD to DSD transition. You may want to do nothing, or you have to set DSD bitrate in the form of DSD64, DSD128... supported by your DAC. When you look at my picture above, it is configured for DSD128 and for DoP. In principle you can take settings from my picture above and adapt only ASIO driver, DSD playback method and Fs to values specific for your DAC.

 

Thanks so much for the info and explaining to everybody what I am doing.

 

Yeah, I tried playing with the settings a bit when that DSD file wouldn't play, but I couldn't get it to work.

I am not overly concerned about that part as I only have a few actual DSD files.

 

I can hear a difference when I just output JRiver to the DAC versus sending it to foo_dsd_asio (sorry about not inserting the dsd part), but that still doesn't tell me if it is doing the conversion. I think it is, but I just wanted to make sure.

 

However, if there is a way to play mp3 files and streams using the HQPlayer pcm to dsd conversion, I would like to do that.

My understanding is that this cannot currently be done, except Tidal via Roon. I am not impressed with Roon, so that is not an option. And that would still only cover Tidal anyway.

[bogi]

Thanks so much for the info and explaining to everybody what I am doing.

 

Yeah, I tried playing with the settings a bit when that DSD file wouldn't play, but I couldn't get it to work.

I am not overly concerned about that part as I only have a few actual DSD files.

 

I could try to help if you provide more details: Fs of DSD recording and screenshot of your ASIO proxy settings.

 

However, if there is a way to play mp3 files and streams using the HQPlayer pcm to dsd conversion, I would like to do that.

My understanding is that this cannot currently be done

 

Did you try it? It simply works. The player (JRiver in this case) decodes MP3 or any other supported PCM file format and creates raw PCM stream from it, it is then sent through ASIO interface to ASIO driver. When you use ASIO proxy, it does not know that the incoming PCM stream originated in MP3 file, so there is no reason why it shouldn't work.

 

I am using JRiver mainly with videos, including youtube videos. They contain compressed PCM audio too and I am listening it as DSD128.

 

With Foobar2000 I am using ASIO proxy too and occasionally I am converting MP3 to DSD128 too.

[bogi]

However, if there is a way to play mp3 files and streams using the HQPlayer pcm to dsd conversion, I would like to do that.

 

Sorry I overlooked in my previous answer you asked for HQPlayer and not JRiver. Take my previous answer as relevant for foo_dsd_asio and JRiver or Foobar2000 for example.

 

Regarding HQPlayer, MP3 isn't supported file format, so it is not possible to play MP3s or any other unsupported format in HQPlayer and then let it to convert it to DSD using HQPlayer engine. It is possible to do that only indirectly through additional conversion from an unsupported file format to supported (like WAV, FLAC) and then to pass it to HQPlayer. This functionality is part of my "Foobar2000 playlist to HQPlayer" solution, see my signature. You can download it and read PDF how to setup it. Not so easy thing to do setup according to my PDF. But if you are generally familiar with Foobar2000, you may succeed. Once configured properly, my solution simply works. I am using it more than year now.