Jump to content
IGNORED

Theories About NAS And Connection / NAS - MicroRendu


Recommended Posts

Hello everyone, I ordered a Microrendu yesterday and today I am searching for solutions to build my system. After several hours of research, I am still not sure if my understanding is correct:

 

1. SSD is the best : because low noise / Spinning drive is definete not a choice.

2. Sumsung EVO 850 Pro is the best SSD currently.

3. QNAP fanless is the best (than Synology) : because low noise.

4. NAS need low power assumption to generate a lower noise.

5. How do I connect microrendu to NAS ? by LAN cable ?

6. If I do so, the RAM storage and CPU of NAS do not matter because the files are really small for transporting?

 

I try to make things simple.

 

Thanks for reading

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am using a QNAP TS-251+ running minumServer and minumStreamer as a DLNA server with two WD red 2TB drives setup for RAID 1. No need for SSD unless you want to run Roon on the NAS. If you do then better to study the thread on CA regarding this. Connect the NAS and the mR to the home network and do not worry about NAS electrical noise unless it is on the same circuit at the mR. An Array Solutions AC-7 can help with the use of swiching power supplies and their noise on the AC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am using a QNAP TS-251+ running minumServer and minumStreamer as a DLNA server with two WD red 2TB drives setup for RAID 1. No need for SSD unless you want to run Roon on the NAS. If you do then better to study the thread on CA regarding this. Connect the NAS and the mR to the home network and do not worry about NAS electrical noise unless it is on the same circuit at the mR. An Array Solutions AC-7 can help with the use of swiching power supplies and their noise on the AC.

 

TS251+ is perfect. I see your solution and now I feel much better now. Thanks

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am using a QNAP TS-251+ running minumServer and minumStreamer as a DLNA server with two WD red 2TB drives setup for RAID 1. No need for SSD unless you want to run Roon on the NAS. If you do then better to study the thread on CA regarding this. Connect the NAS and the mR to the home network and do not worry about NAS electrical noise unless it is on the same circuit at the mR. An Array Solutions AC-7 can help with the use of swiching power supplies and their noise on the AC.

 

+1

 

I have the 251 + & 2 X 3TB red HDs, - all running great and the QNAP's fan is silent. One of the reasons why I got it instead of the Synology as (I've had a Synology running for a couple of years configured with only 512mb of RAM. It's fan was noisy and it choked running LMS. It was my housemate's drive and he largely built our DB which we now share and we have 2 Synologys, plus my QNAP as backups).

I am running LMS now on an Imac in the basement, but will likely move LMS, and possibly Roon to the QNAP as I have 8GB of RAM and of course, - the QuadCore processor in the QNAP. I am load balancing the NICs right now, - but may set up a virtual Ethernet switch & connect the microRendu directly to the QNAP. Also, I'm running fiber to the microRendu.

 

Cheers,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

remember, a NAS is not a necessity. My NAS died so I repurposed and old mac mini to serve up my music.

 

+1 NAS's can be very expensive for the same CPU power as a Mac or PC. And the microRendu will allow you to hear the limitations of the cheaper NAS processors.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And the microRendu will allow you to hear the limitations of the cheaper NAS processors.

 

How did you compare the sound of different NAS devices through the microRendu?

 

I have a Synology NAS from their value series. I find it hard to believe that I'd hear an improvement in sound quality by moving to a NAS with a better processor.

Digital:  Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC 

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Alpha and Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

remember, a NAS is not a necessity. My NAS died so I repurposed and old mac mini to serve up my music.

 

This is what I concern as well. My hard drive never fail (before I change PC). NAS power on and stand by all the time is dangerous to file safety even through company claim no problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

+1 NAS's can be very expensive for the same CPU power as a Mac or PC. And the microRendu will allow you to hear the limitations of the cheaper NAS processors.

 

I am currently interested about Small green computer sonictransporter. An alternative choice is Sotm SMS-200 which claim to support Roon (however I can use DLAN).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How did you compare the sound of different NAS devices through the microRendu?

 

I have a Synology NAS from their value series. I find it hard to believe that I'd hear an improvement in sound quality by moving to a NAS with a better processor.

Try this and see if you get the same result as I did. (1) Run Minimserver on both your NAS and home PC. Use Fidelizer set to audiophile setting on the home PC. (2) Listen for passages that sound muddy/unclear using Synology NAS, then alternative with same track sourced from PC. I found that my PC. used as NAS with an AMD 8 core FX processor was clearer in resolving complex instrumentation than the Marvell processor in the DS214play.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NAS power on and stand by all the time is dangerous to file safety even through company claim no problem.

 

What is you reasoning behind that statement? That is completely 100% wrong.

Roon client on iPad/MacBookPro

Roon Server & HQPlayer on Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7 with JS-2

LPS-1 & ultraRendu → Lampizator Atlantic → Bent Audio TAP-X → Atma-sphere M60 → Zero autoformers → Harbeth Compact 7 ES-3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Try this and see if you get the same result as I did. (1) Run Minimserver on both your NAS and home PC. Use Fidelizer set to audiophile setting on the home PC. (2) Listen for passages that sound muddy/unclear using Synology NAS, then alternative with same track sourced from PC. I found that my PC. used as NAS with an AMD 8 core FX processor was clearer in resolving complex instrumentation than the Marvell processor in the DS214play.

 

How can you fault the processors? The two devices aren't even running the same software and OS. You've compared oranges to apples. I bet if you were even able to match the processor exactly in both devices, you may still hear differences.

 

Also I would think the processor would have little influence on the sound of Minimserver unless some kind of transcoding is being done. The processor might be one of the last things I'd blame for sound differences in this case.

Digital:  Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC 

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Alpha and Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Try this and see if you get the same result as I did. (1) Run Minimserver on both your NAS and home PC. Use Fidelizer set to audiophile setting on the home PC. (2) Listen for passages that sound muddy/unclear using Synology NAS, then alternative with same track sourced from PC. I found that my PC. used as NAS with an AMD 8 core FX processor was clearer in resolving complex instrumentation than the Marvell processor in the DS214play.

 

Roon suggest Intel I3/I5 with 4GB RAM officially. I am not sure about the requirement for Minumserver but I guess the CPU power give you stable signal stream especially when you have a large database.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is you reasoning behind that statement? That is completely 100% wrong.

 

Sorry, that is a bad statement. What I mean is, when you're not using PC (physical hard drive), the files are safe, but when you use NAS power on and stand by, it can increase the risk factor. I dont mean the data is unsafe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How can you fault the processors? The two devices aren't even running the same software and OS. You've compared oranges to apples. I bet if you were even able to match the processor exactly in both devices, you may still hear differences.

 

Also I would think the processor would have little influence on the sound of Minimserver unless some kind of transcoding is being done. The processor might be one of the last things I'd blame for sound differences in this case.

 

hmm.. can't sort out from your response. Do you agree with me that all NAS's aren't created equal and that OS/hardware in an audiophile NAS solution can matter for better sound? Or are you in the camp that says NAS solution doesn't affect sound? Hifi critic tried their own stab at a token NAS comparion, concluded it mattered but believe their eyes glazed over at the complexity of adding NAS's as another piece of gear to review.

 

Listening To Storage Listening tests reveal significant sound quality differences between various digital music storage technologies. Article By Andrew Harrison and Stephen N. Harris

 

As a point of additional testing information, I find my Synology NAS sounds far better than PC as NAS if I don't use Fidelizer. So its even more complex than OS and CPU.

 

Apples to oranges comparisons we do all the time in audio... tube amp vs solid state amp, cone speaker vs electrostat, etc. The audiophile asks first the question of which sounds better, and worries later about the why.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the article by Harrison and Harris they hear differences in NAS setups. I assume it is the NAS signature noise that is causing the difference same as with any computer connected to a DAC. So how is the NAS noise making its way through switches to an end point ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NAS definitely affect sound. Different models vary in SQ and if you get linear power supply on it further improves. Someone did this test and can hear difference.

 

Notes that, NAS is not audiophile design, it can use industrial motherboard and can have poor photoelectric conversion module and bad in EMI isolation etc.

 

You can see many music servers with high price tag do invest on such fundamental designs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"NAS with a linear power supply improved transient response and stability of the data stream , and the response and stability of the network traffic , but also a direct impact on the receiving end of several broadcast network data reception stability , thereby affecting the number of broadcast power ... affect the entire chain, the impact is not direct , but in advanced digital broadcasting system can still hear the audible difference "

 

This is the opinion of an Audio engineer from Soundaware Audio

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is an “photoelectric conversion module”?

Roon client on iPad/MacBookPro

Roon Server & HQPlayer on Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7 with JS-2

LPS-1 & ultraRendu → Lampizator Atlantic → Bent Audio TAP-X → Atma-sphere M60 → Zero autoformers → Harbeth Compact 7 ES-3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hmm.. can't sort out from your response. Do you agree with me that all NAS's aren't created equal and that OS/hardware in an audiophile NAS solution can matter for better sound? Or are you in the camp that says NAS solution doesn't affect sound?

 

I'm in the camp that is skeptical but open minded. That's why I was trying to sort out your impressions. If you had compared two different NAS of the same brand and kept everything else equal and still heard differences that would have been very interesting to me. Ultimately though your comparisons have been of PC vs NAS, which aren't useful to me.

 

I actually have two Synology NAS with different CPUs so I could probably compare them. But I can't imagine I'd hear a difference as I'm using Roon->HQP->microRendu. The NAS is just acting as a file server that shares out my music files to Roon Server. The NAS isn't involved in playback at all.

Digital:  Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC 

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Alpha and Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NAS definitely affect sound. Different models vary in SQ and if you get linear power supply on it further improves. Someone did this test and can hear difference.

 

Maybe the NAS can affect the sound, but I don't think it's certain. It might depend on how the NAS is used. What if the NAS is only acting as a file server - and it's on a different AC circuit than the system - and fiber is isolating the Ethernet? How can powering the NAS with a linear supply be as helpful as in the case where the NAS is on the same AC circuit and copper Ethernet cabling is used and the NAS is actually running UPnP software?

Digital:  Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC 

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Alpha and Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe the NAS can affect the sound, but I don't think it's certain. It might depend on how the NAS is used. What if the NAS is only acting as a file server - and it's on a different AC circuit than the system - and fiber is isolating the Ethernet? How can powering the NAS with a linear supply be as helpful as in the case where the NAS is on the same AC circuit and copper Ethernet cabling is used and the NAS is actually running UPnP software?

 

NAS affect SQ but not much. The linear power supply to interface (eg. MicroRendu) improves much much more than NAS. The NAS only affect SQ when you have lots of files in database and big file to transfer, i.e, the stability will decrease.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is an “photoelectric conversion module”?

 

Digital data transfer in cable in "electric current" form in digital or power cables (USB, Power, RCA etc ) , but for ethernet connection, the signals are transfer in "photon" form. The energy transfer process can introduce error "jitter". So we need stable module.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Digital data transfer in cable in "electric current" form in digital or power cables (USB, Power, RCA etc ) , but for ethernet connection, the signals are transfer in "photon" form. The energy transfer process can introduce error "jitter". So we need stable module.

 

What? Photons..?

Ethernet is transmitted via ordinary electrical connection. Yes you can use optical ethernet via fiber, but that is something else.

Roon client on iPad/MacBookPro

Roon Server & HQPlayer on Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7 with JS-2

LPS-1 & ultraRendu → Lampizator Atlantic → Bent Audio TAP-X → Atma-sphere M60 → Zero autoformers → Harbeth Compact 7 ES-3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What? Photons..?

Ethernet is transmitted via ordinary electrical connection. Yes you can use optical ethernet via fiber, but that is something else.

 

Oh, sorry, you are right. I saw "http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2015/07/gallery-we-tear-apart-a-340-audiophile-ethernet-cable-and-look-inside/" just now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share



×
×
  • Create New...