AudiophileOptimizer BETA Thread (AO 3.00 beta is closed)

[thuandb]

1 hour ago, JazzDoc said:

Earlier today, Marcin posted the following on the JPLAY Forum:

 

"From a technical point of view, it's impossible for WASAPI to sound better than KS. At least not via JPLAY."

 

I wonder if he is implying that it is theoretically not possible for WASAPI to sound better than KS or whether he is stating that WASAPI will not sound better than KS via JPLAY

I think he meant what he said, WASAPI can't be sounding as good as KS [due to the latter's lowest latency] technically.  As to which sounds better subjectively, it's up to personal preference.

 

I had doubt whether one is sounding better or worse than the other.  Now that I've listened a bit more, I realized that this is actually a win-win situation, that we poor audionuts now have a choice, that whether we prefer one over another depends on our HW, SW, tweaks, optimizations, moods and personal tastes.

 

That said, there're distinctions in SQ between the two IMHO.  In comparison, KS seems to be the ruthless, matter-if-fact version of truth while WASAPI seems like the romantic version of truth.  Both are like freshly roasted coffee, KS is more like dark to medium roasted white WASAPI is more like medium to light roasted coffee.

[thuandb]

3 hours ago, Blawre said:

 

Hi,

 

My DAC doesn't support DSD.

 

BTW having a low time on JPlay Buffers has the added benefits that Hysolid is virtually gapless.

 

The only HW tweaks I have is a dedicated USB card which is battery powered.

My OS SSD drive is also battery powered. I have tried dedicated linear power but much prefer LI batteries.

Foobar doesn't seem too picky at all.

 

Cheers

There're optimized settings on network card, USB hubs, and DAC driver you might want to look at.  What OS are you running?

[AudioPhil]

Hello all

During the last days we got a few questions regarding updates and upgrades, our update/upgrade policy and also about donations. So i think it's a good moment to explain how things have been handled ever since.

Updates:
Between upgrades we offer free updates. Free means what it says, they do not cost any money and are available to all AO users whou bough the last upgrade. They also need no new Activation-Key since they use the same algorithm like the already installed AO version. Updates cause a minor step up in the version number, for example 1.25 to 1.26. We seldom have to release updates because of errors or problems, but we do offer updates with extended and refined functionality, entirely new features or adjustments which are related to other changes in software like new jriver version for example which needs an updated shell replacement.

Upgrades:
Upgrades are not the same as updates. Upgrades are major releases which also cause a major step up in the version number of AO. For example AO 1.40 to 2.00 was an upgrade. Upgrades are released around once a year, but it can also be longer for an upgrade to be released, this depends on many factors. Upgrades compared to updates are not free. Upgrades also use a different algorithm to calculate the Hardware-ID, so an upgrade will always need you to enter a new Activation-Key. Typically an upgrade also inlcudes five new Activation-Keys for the new algorithm. Activation-Keys:
Those are needed to activate AO. A new bought license or an upgrade contains five Activation-Keys. The license is bound to the person who bough AO or the additional keys, the activations itself are bound to hardware. So if you set up a new computer you will need to enter a new Activation-Key to activate it. You might also use multiple activations because of a JPLAY Dual-PC setup or simply because you have more than one music server. The reason why a license contains more than one Activation-Key is also to cover hardware-failures. A broken harddrive, exchanged network card or new mainboard will also need you to enter a new Activation-Key. If the five included Activation-Keys are used up, one can try generating a sixth Activation-Key and will then be automatically redirected to a website where a pack of two additional Activation-Keys can be bought.

AO 2.20 & Donations:
AO 2.20 was supposed to be a costly upgrade by the end of 2017. But it was foreseeable that we will not be able to release the final AO 2.20 by the end of 2017 quite early and that it will take more time than usual to finish the work on AO 2.20. That's why we decided to offer the AO 2.20 upgrade free for all Users on AO 2.00 or higher. This decision was made to please users and make up a bit for the longer waiting time. After announcing this on JPLAY.EU a few fellow users asked about donations and how they can make such, so we set up a little web page where such donations can be made. AO 2.20 b6 is the final stage of AO 2.20, so it's pretty sure that AO 2.20 b6 will be the final release of AO 2.20. So if one wants to download AO 2.20 b6 he automatically sees a donation page and is free to give a donation or not. Donations are not needed, but certainly highly appreciated.

 

Hope this helps to clarify.

 

Best,

AudioPhil
 

[jcn3]

On 2/8/2018 at 11:21 AM, AudioPhil said:

But there are also demotivating news, at least for us. For all this hard work we received an total of 8 donations.
Eight donatios, amazing, isn't it? I might be wrong, but i think it's pretty disappointing to have over 1000 downloads, zero issues, hundreds of hours of work, yet another free update coming soon, many free updates in the past and then having this result. Hope this brings a few people to reconsider their own way of thinking and acting...

 

 

36 minutes ago, AudioPhil said:

Donations are not needed, but certainly highly appreciated.
 

 

@AudioPhil -- as i mentioned earlier, i enjoy your product thoroughly.  i also understand health issues and life get in the way of the best laid plans.  however, i still encourage you to be consistent and firm and clear.  your recent post was helpful, but not consistent with your original one (quoted above).

 

in first post, you were clearly complaining.  in the second one, you say donations are not needed.  as a result, i'm still a disappointed with the way you've handled this.

 

at a minimum, i suggest you clean up the web site to make your terms and conditions clear and add additional links to facilitate donations.

[rickca]

On 2/8/2018 at 11:21 AM, AudioPhil said:

But there are also demotivating news, at least for us. For all this hard work we received an total of 8 donations.
Eight donatios, amazing, isn't it? I might be wrong, but i think it's pretty disappointing to have over 1000 downloads, zero issues, hundreds of hours of work, yet another free update coming soon, many free updates in the past and then having this result. Hope this brings a few people to reconsider their own way of thinking and acting...

As someone who just bought AO in October 2017 and paid 129 CHF, I was mystified and somewhat put off by your post.  

[AudioPhil]

Hello rickca

 

Absolutely understandable. No worries, you‘re certainly not among those who could/should consider giving a donation. 

 

One more information regarding costly upgrades. With every upgrade it naturelly happens that people „just“ bought AO slightly before that upgrade was released. This is somewhat unpleasing so in those cases we automatically apply a „grace period“ of three months. Meaning that the costly upgrade is also free for those who bought AO up to three months before release of the new upgrade. 

 

We‘ll stick to the plan and our promise, AO 2.20 will be free for all AO users on 2.00 and up.

 

Best,

AudioPhil

 

[Blawre]

6 hours ago, thuandb said:

There're optimized settings on network card, USB hubs, and DAC driver you might want to look at.  What OS are you running?

 

 

Hi,

 

As I said earlier I use WS2016 in Core mode

 

Thanks for any info you can give

[thuandb]

Sorry I missed the WS2016 Core part.  Basically, I turn off power management of USB hubs and Ethernet card, set DAC, NIC, USB parameters to lowest latency.  Hope you've done most if not more of them already.

[JazzDoc]

6 hours ago, thuandb said:

Now that I've listened a bit more, I realized that this is actually a win-win situation, that we poor audionuts now have a choice, that whether we prefer one over another depends on our HW, SW, tweaks, optimizations, moods and personal tastes.

Unfortunately I don't have a choice as try as I might, I can't get WASAPI to work.

 

I have dual PC setup with JPLAY 6.2/AO 2.20b6/Fidelizer Pro 8 (Control PC and Audio PC)/M2Tech HiFace Evo/Minimserver/Linn Kinsky. I have played around with settings but cannot find one that will get the green light indicating that a stream is being received by the HiFace Evo. I selected WASAPI optimization in AO on both machines.I run Classic engine in JPLAY and have tried with Hibernate on and off.

 

Please forgive my ignorance but do I need to install any others drivers or software to get WASAPI to work (This shouldn't be the case as Phil has assured me that it will work out of the box) and do I need to inject WASAPI (Whatever that might mean!)

 

I am running WS2016 on both my Control PC and Audio PC in GUI mode. Do I need to run in Core to get WASPI to work? I will not attempt to install Core until Phil published the updated manual that includes setup instructions for Core. I find Phil's manual and the setup instructions contained therein to be a real positive strength of AO. As soon as that updated manual is published, I'll have a go with Core.

 

My system runs fine in KS and sound really good. I only want to try WASAPI out of curiosity. If anyone has any ideas that will enable me to get it to run on my setup, I would be grateful.

[Franatic]

JD, run "AO -WASAPI"  in your audio PC to INJECT the WASAPI function. I can't run it in my WS2012R2 machine. Perhaps this will push me to try WS2016. Let me know if you get it working. Phil gave instructions here:

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/2321-wasapi-in-core-mode-all-you-need-to-know/

[JazzDoc]

3 hours ago, Franatic said:

JD, run "AO -WASAPI"  in your audio PC to INJECT the WASAPI function. I can't run it in my WS2012R2 machine. Perhaps this will push me to try WS2016. Let me know if you get it working. Phil gave instructions here:

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/2321-wasapi-in-core-mode-all-you-need-to-know/

Thanks for the reply Franatic. I tried the procedure that you suggested on my Audio PC and once again, got nothing. I'm happy with KS though. It's not a problem.

[AudioPhil]

2 hours ago, JazzDoc said:

Thanks for the reply Franatic. I tried the procedure that you suggested on my Audio PC and once again, got nothing. I'm happy with KS though. It's not a problem.

 

On Server OS Windows Audio services are disabled by default. Sure you enabled them, set start to auto?

 

Best,

AudioPhil

[Blawre]

10 hours ago, thuandb said:

Sorry I missed the WS2016 Core part.  Basically, I turn off power management of USB hubs and Ethernet card, set DAC, NIC, USB parameters to lowest latency.  Hope you've done most if not more of them already.

 

 

Thanks , done all those, but your advice should be interesting to others.

[rickca]

I am pretty new to AO and running Beta 5.  Today I looked at Windows Update history and found a bunch of quality updates.

 

There are 4 that are saying 'requires a restart to finish installing'.  But if I restart the system, they don't get installed.

 

Update for Windows 10 Version 1703 for x64-based Systems (KB4033631)

2018-01 Security Update for Adobe Flash Player for Windows 10 Version 1703 for x64-based Systems (KB4056887)

2017-12 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1703 for x64-based Systems (KB4053580)

2017-11 Update for Windows 10 Version 1703 for x64-based Systems (KB4049011)

 

There are another 2 updates that say 'successfully installed' on 2/19

 

Update for Windows 10 for x64-based Systems (KB4056254)

Update for Windows 10 Version 1703 for x64-based Systems (KB4023057)

 

So how can this happen?  I thought that Windows Update was disabled by AO, so how did those 2 updates get installed on 2/19?

Also, how do I get the 4 updates that are pending restart to actually install?

 

I know beta 6 is out.  I'd appreciate a quick review of the steps required to move from beta 5 to beta 6 because I've never updated AO before.  I just bought AO in October.

 

 

 

[rickca]

Paging @AudioPhil 

[petalthecat]

My sound  system has been collecting comb webs for over 12 months, Finally have time to listen but misfortune happened. Turned the media computer on after the initial start the dreaded blue screen. So need to do a clean reinstall. My original system was based around Wndows server R12, AO HQplayer,  Roon and streamed through Microrendu. Would like to catch up on current thinking without going through all the threads,  Windows server R16 with AO 2,20 seems to be the current favorite combination  especially  with Roon, Also wondering which evaluation version do you download. Thought I read somewhere wifi does not work in core mode with Windows server R16/Roon . Does this mean that you can't use your Smart phone as a remote with Roon?

 

 

 

[thuandb]

Like WS2012r2, with WS2016 one can control the music server from his smart device wirelessly even though the server connects to local wired network.  The server doesn't need to be wifi enabled or capable.  The home router provides wifi to smart device.  That's my two cents understanding, and that's what I'm doing.

 

Highly recommend WS2016 Core and AO.  Coming from WS2012, there should be no insurmountable issues upgrading to WS2016.  Reward in SQ is for real.

[petalthecat]

Thanks Thuandb.

I,m looking foward to getting it all together.

[dtb300]

On 2/22/2018 at 6:17 PM, rickca said:

So how can this happen?  I thought that Windows Update was disabled by AO, so how did those 2 updates get installed on 2/19?

Also, how do I get the 4 updates that are pending restart to actually install?

 

I know beta 6 is out.  I'd appreciate a quick review of the steps required to move from beta 5 to beta 6 because I've never updated AO before.  I just bought AO in October.

 

Did you run the Win10 Strip Down with AO from Service Tool?

 

Beta 5 to Beta 6 - Run ST -r first, then install B6 over B5. Run AO again.

[rickca]

1 hour ago, dtb300 said:

Did you run the Win10 Strip Down with AO from Service Tool?

Yes I did.

 

1 hour ago, dtb300 said:

Beta 5 to Beta 6 - Run ST -r first, then install B6 over B5. Run AO again.

After running ST -r, should I apply the accumulated quality updates (Windows Update) before installing B6? 

 

I still don't understand how I got 2 updates installed if AO turns off automatic maintenance, and I assume the 4 updates that require a restart would get installed if I did a restart after running ST -r?

[Quadman]

I've noted some strange things that happen to music playback since installing 2.20b6 (I am a new user so this is a first time purchase and install).  My Ryzen 1800x CPU seems to be throttled somewhat with AO running compared to it's performance pre-AO install.  I upsample everything, mostly redbook 16/44.1 to DSD512 via HQPlayer.  My current filter of choice in HQP is poly-sinc-shrt-MP when I first hit play after selecting this filter the PC freezes for a good 45-60 seconds, while the filter builds. Pre-AO install this time was around 15 seconds for the filter to build so the build time has now tripled.  Also now when I play 48K based material and upsample to DSD512 48x512 (autorate family checked) I get a sort of fluttering sound within the music this never happened pre-AO install.  CPU usage doing this with AO is apprx 23% on average and looking at each cores load I never see one core with unusually high usage.  Playing 44K based material also with autorate family checked (44x512) There is no fluttering and CPU usage is also around 23%.  Somehow AO seems to have throttled my CPU and affect its performance with filter building and 48k based output.  Has anyone else noted a performance drop in CPU with AO.  Sonically the sound is the best I have ever gotten from a PC.

 

 

 

 

[dtb300]

Sounds like - a guess -   Before you ran the Win10 strip down, Windows was downloading updates for installed packages/features.  Once the strip down finished and restarted those features etc cannot be installed.  

 

You can try the st -r then see which installs.  I expect you will get same result.

 

Did you you see in manual - Strip Down & Repair Windows 10.  Repair then see if updates install.  You can then run strip down again.  The manual is a great resource for many things Windows.....

 

If neither works you "may" need to reinstall....

[rickca]

17 minutes ago, dtb300 said:

Sounds like - a guess -   Before you ran the Win10 strip down, Windows was downloading updates for installed packages/features.

Nope.  I installed AO beta 5 and ran Win10 strip down back in October.  The updates listed in my above post weren't even available at that time ... they came out in the November 2017 - February 2018 timeframe.

 

Thanks for the input, I will have another look at the manual re Strip Down & Repair Windows 10.  No way I want to reinstall. 

[jcn3]

I'd repair Windows and then remove the optimizations. This should put you in a state where you can pick and choose what to install and/or what to roll back.

[rickca]

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