New Sonus Faber Sf16 Unveiled in Sardinia, Italy

[徐中銳]

Thus :

[rgbyhkr]

I hear what you are saying, but the very equipment you use has compromises. Whether those compromises are for looks, price, marketing, or something else, they are compromises.

 

Plus, people are putting the cart before the horse by suggesting the sound of this unit may be compromised. Unless you are hear in Italy listening to it, you are only guessing.

 

So Chris, answer the key question....how does it sound???

[The Computer Audiophile]

I think this is extracting too much from what I said...let's see if I can make myself understood.

 

Rega products say a lot from Roy Gandy. The turntables have his "dna". The man thinks his turntables should be low in mass...The form of his products follow his beliefs and designs principles.

 

We can like of not but this brings some authenticity to the product.

 

At Linn, the same happened with Ivor Tiefenbrun forward thinking...and their products have a lot of his "dna"...

 

Famously at QUAD, Peter Walker ideas (that would today seem exotic for most folks) have decisively made impact on many products, including my lovely ESL's (even after several exchange of ownership).

 

Each designer that have some own ideas and principles, will reflect this in product design and final products. Sometimes with huge success, sometimes with monumental failures..

 

The spirit and dna of Franco Serblin, well I cannot see it the sf16, even if there is superficial inspiration.

If he would be still alive, would he be passionately involved in a project that is heavily based on huge class D power sound tailored by DSP? Would he be interested in building a "machine" to process Tidal streaming? Surely not, it was simply not his world.

 

The Company is managed differently nowaways and while their "drawings" are impeccable accross the groups brands (Sonus Faber, ARC, Wadia, McIntosh), the design choices taken in this project I see no connection with Serblin.

That was just my point.

 

It's clever from them to explore the brand value. It's a business. Not a job of craft and passion.

It's very interesting you say this. In the presentation Sonus Faber must have used the letters DNA 50 times to stress they are sticking to the DNA of the company. They mentioned the snail speaker and Serblin and that in a changing world they are sticking to their heritage and DNA while moving the company forward.

 

I'm not sticking up for them, just saying it's really weird how you and SF used the same words to get to different conclusions.

[The Computer Audiophile]

So Chris, answer the key question....how does it sound???

I heard it today in an awkward setting. I'll need more time to make a judgement.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I have to admit - I'm not a fan of all-in-one systems. I believe by choosing separates I can always create a system more suited to my sonic expectations. I'm also not a fan of lifestyle audio for the abovementioned reasons. Indeed not being in Sardinia I cannot say what SF16 sounds like but I'm afraid that I can be sure about two things. First - for 10000 Euro you can buy a better low end response system and second - you can buy a wider stereo for much less than that Imagine listening to speakers (not detachable I assume) spread by what looks like 1m distance from comfortable standard 2,5 - 3,5m distance.? In my opinion Sonus Faber is taking a risky step from Sardinian cliff into 'lifestyle' territory. Will they make enough money on SF16 (what's next, Italian wallnut and leather finished portable radio Sonus Faber - Gucci brand.?) to compensate for possible brand image loss.?

I'm a huge fan of all in one systems. There's no chance in hell I will put a separates based system on a shelf in my living room, yet I still want quality sound in there. The answer for me in all in one.this is also not about a race to the bottom as you talked about when you say you can buy a wider stereo for less. There is always a way to accomplish something for less.

 

P.S. You've mentioned that you used to be an audio dealer. Perhaps you have an axe to grind or are an old school dealer who resist change? Not judging, it just comes off that way a bit to me.

[esldude]

I heard it today in an awkward setting. I'll need more time to make a judgement.

 

Are you saying it sounds awkward Chris? Why would a speaker have an 'awkward' setting?

 

 

:)

[The Computer Audiophile]

Are you saying it sounds awkward Chris? Why would a speaker have an 'awkward' setting?

 

 

:)

ha good one. One was placed outside. That's an awkward setting for me trying to judge sound quality. The other was inside, but still the whole environment was setup to give one the feel of it, not necessarily evaluate it in its entirety.

 

P.S. The first year's worth are sold out.

[徐中銳]

The first year's worth are sold out.

 

It's YouTube, (primarily) seduces (?) :

 

MF's in :

« This supreme, highly engineered Sonus Faber "lifestyle" self-contained amplifier/DAC/speaker system produced near chaos... »

 

There's no chance in hell I will put a separates based system on a shelf in my living room, yet I still want quality sound in there.

 

Incidentally, it being A Totally Symmetric System, how far should it sit before reflective backing walls ?

[rgbyhkr]

ha good one. One was placed outside. That's an awkward setting for me trying to judge sound quality. The other was inside, but still the whole environment was setup to give one the feel of it, not necessarily evaluate it in its entirety.

 

P.S. The first year's worth are sold out.

 

You mean already spoken for by dealers who got to see it right? I'm not doubting the statement, but rather differentiating between end user sales and dealer orders, the bulk of the latter of which is of course intended to be then sold to customers. It would seem unlikely that 200 customers would have bought one sight unseen and sound unheard within a day after the launch. It's not impossible of course, after all we do live in a Kickstarter world, but at this price point I would be surprised.

[semente]

Franco's first product, the snail, that Adam posted a photo of, was a lifestyle product. It's that product on which the Sf16 is based.

 

Yes, but can you spot the difference (that makes the former a much better performer)?

[semente]

At Linn, the same happened with Ivor Tiefenbrun forward thinking...and their products have a lot of his "dna"...

 

I've often seen mention that the Sondek is but a luxury copy of the Acoustic Research XA.

[semente]

Incidentally' date=' it being [i']A Totally Symmetric System[/i], how far should it sit before reflective backing walls ?

 

It should sit in the middle of the room for everyone to see that you own one.

 

Looks like function is just an afterthought...

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[rgbyhkr]

This place is wonderful! I was outside on my laptop posting on the forum today while streaming Tidal. Life is good in Sardinia. No wonder it's a Blue Zone ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone ).

 

You weren't the only media person who has had positive things to say about the SF launch event location:

 

SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - World of McIntosh on the Mediterranean

 

SF seems to have been putting in a lot of effort to elevate the brand. The number of new products and entire new lines rolled out the last few years is substantial. They've pushed into headphones, now all in one units, fleshed out the speaker offerings from entry level to very high end and have offered more than one limited edition product. It will be interesting to see if the SF16 becomes a hard to acquire item given the limited production run or if the novelty wears off and you see many of them functioning as attractive dealer showroom pieces. That's not a knock on the product at all, but any gear costing this much has competition with a variety of alternative solutions so it remains to be seen what the true consumer appetite for it is. It's made to be on display so while it will work for some room environments, it simply won't for many others.

 

The product that's always tugged at me is the Ex3ma. I followed the launch and all the coverage that came after. I even made inquiries to SF reps about them. Unfortunately, production was simply too limited. I was told there was no ability to get them in an alternative finish and frankly, even finding a pair to audition proved onerous, so I moved on. I still would love to hear them sometime though. Stand mounted 2-ways can be magical and these seemed like they could be that and then some.

[firedog]

Must say I find the incredible negativity on this thread amazing. YOU don't like all in one systems - so what. It isn't being made for you. You aren't that important!

 

Ever occur to you that you aren't the center of the universe - and that Sonus Faber has no expectation that all of it's snobby audiophile customers are going to buy one - and that they don't care.

 

Just like other products on the market: Kii Audio, Devialet Phantom, iFi, etc., some other companies realize that good sound and a compact-lifestyle friendly format aren't contradictions in terms. Could you put together a better system of separates for less?

 

Maybe. In many cases relative to the above items, I seriously doubt it. And even if you can - it's irrelevant. These items are being made to fit into relatively small spaces, and for people who for various reasons can't have lots of cables and wires going everywhere. Maybe there are people who won't at all buy a system of separates, but will buy an all in one if it has very good sound - even if it isn't the absolute very best sound available. Some people may think a small compromise in SQ is less important than style and size factors.

 

Not everyone has a dedicated listening space. Some people might even use one of these as a second system. What's wrong with that? No one is telling you that it is for you and that YOU have to buy it. Get over yourselves.

[semente]

"Sonus Faber has unveiled its first all-in-one wireless music streaming system, the £9900 SF16, which goes on sale in September."

 

Read more at Sonus Faber goes hi-res wireless with its SF16 all-in-one system | What Hi-Fi?

 

That is a lot of cash...should we start a "£9.9K all in exercise" topic?

[徐中銳]

Oh, I'm certainly not discounting possible performance of Sf16. Sure, value-for-money at £9.9K is a separate issue. But, for limited-edition-like releases, there are enough buyers. And the « near chaos » by scribes are priceless ? Well, as have been observed that, many audiophiles are photographers, recalling :

« Paul Smith, the international designer and entrepreneur, talks about his new contribution to the Leica Camera line and his history with photography. »

 

Quick bit of background on X2 PS price :

« The model we handled had "PR05/PR60" to its rear, but this is where the real deal, on-sale models will have their individual numbers from 1-1500. However Pocket-lint was told that the more prestigious numbers, such as 0001 and 1500, will be reserved for special occasions and are unlikely to be put on sale.

First impressions? Well it's striking, isn't it? It's sure to turn a few heads, but not only on account of its bold colour scheme, but also its price: a cool £2,000 will reserve you the model... »

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

You mean already spoken for by dealers who got to see it right? I'm not doubting the statement, but rather differentiating between end user sales and dealer orders, the bulk of the latter of which is of course intended to be then sold to customers. It would seem unlikely that 200 customers would have bought one sight unseen and sound unheard within a day after the launch. It's not impossible of course, after all we do live in a Kickstarter world, but at this price point I would be surprised.

I don't see why it matters if it's a dealer order or otherwise. I don't know many dealers who purchase items for the heck of it. They purchase items their customers will buy from them.

[rgbyhkr]

I don't see why it matters if it's a dealer order or otherwise. I don't know many dealers who purchase items for the heck of it. They purchase items their customers will buy from them.

 

The difference matters quite a lot to any potential customer. If those orders are for end user customers, then anyone who hasn't yet placed a pre-order is out of luck until next year. If they however are mostly or all done by dealers who anticipate demand from their customers, then end users need only find a dealer who has a unit pre-ordered that isn't already spoken for by another customer.

 

And I disagree with you a bit on dealer orders for a product like this. Yes, every dealer want to sell inventory, but this kind of product is a statement piece. If it sits in a showroom for some period of time before being offloaded, it at least has a cool factor that may translate to other business. I think many also figure that if they put it out there, it's going to get bought. Between the design element and of course limited production they may not be wrong. Do I think there are hordes of dealers buying one for display purposes only though? Certainly not.

[sphinxsix]

I was joking about SF16 being a 'drone-speaker' in one of my first posts but actually I think the whole subject is quite a serious one. I do admit I'm personally slightly concerned about 'lifestyle' products made by respected companies gaining what seems to be more popularity in recent years. I (and 99% of Computer Audiophile members) have too much knowledge and experience in the audio field to treat these products 100% seriously as far as sound quality vs price ratio is concerned. I being an audio purist (in the sense that SQ is what matters most) am concerned with with the following issues. If that trend gets stronger will more and more good audio gear companies shift their attention from audiophile quality gear to the stuff that looks like a million dollars, costs 'only' 10 grand but sounds like 500.? BTW I'm not suggesting that SF16 sounds bad and I deeply respect the fact that The Computer Audiophile being the only person here who actually heard it has refrained from judging its sound. BTW couldn't Sonus Faber create a favorable conditions to simply make it sound good.? And BTW Firedog, yes I'm actually pretty convinced I could suggest 10 audio systems (suited to different tastes and different rooms) for the same ammount of money sounding better for most listeners in about 20 minutes. And yes, I know I sound more than slightly arrogant here. As for your 'love for all-in-one systems' CA, I hope you won't mind if I start to believe you when you put one in your listening room.. But going back to the main subject - another reason of my concern is the danger that if a person who knows little about audiophile gear is told that some lifestyle, bad sounding audio system is what hi-end audio is all about, he or she may never discover a world of real quality sound and become a 'lost' person for a world of good hi-fi . I understand very well the constraints (and even necessary compromises) present in audio journalism (as a dealer and also for a brief moment a countrywide distibutor of a certain audio brand I had a chance to observe them quite closely) but this is where the responsibility (isn't it a little unfashionable word today.?) of audio press and other media comes into picture. Meaning some things should be called (more or less) straightforward. For instance (but please treat it as just an example) lifestyle audio's main point of interest isn't best possible SQ for a given amount of money ratio. BTW, Computer Audiophile I don't think I 'have an axe to grind'. Except from the views that are pure (!) nonsense to me - if this is the case I'm sometimes ready to 'grind' them. I do have 20+ years of experience in audio and music world, a big part of it being professionally active in the field. I have my views, some of which some may find not acceptable. I'm ready to defend them maybe from time time in a slightly too uncompromising (or for that matter not 'politically correct') way. Maybe I do speak too often 'from my heart' when the subject is music and sound but I'm glad I'm still able to be passionate about it. They are too big part of my life to be able (or even want) to discuss them always in a 'coldblooded' manner.

And (completly) BTW - do you guys like the SF16's looks.? I remain slightly unimpressed. Which I cannot say about many other examples of (not necessarily lifestyle) audio gear..

I can't resist a temptation to post a photo of one of my personal favorites (sounds good too) :

[semente]

I think they look like an uglier, angular version of the Davone Rays with Lamborghini-like rearview mirrors.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I was joking about SF16 being a 'drone-speaker' in one of my first posts but actually I think the whole subject is quite a serious one. I do admit I'm personally slightly concerned about 'lifestyle' products made by respected companies gaining what seems to be more popularity in recent years. I (and 99% of Computer Audiophile members) have too much knowledge and experience in the audio field to treat these products 100% seriously as far as sound quality vs price ratio is concerned. I being an audio purist (in the sense that SQ is what matters most) am concerned with with the following issues. If that trend gets stronger will more and more good audio gear companies shift their attention from audiophile quality gear to the stuff that looks like a million dollars, costs 'only' 10 grand but sounds like 500.? BTW I'm not suggesting that SF16 sounds bad and I deeply respect the fact that The Computer Audiophile being the only person here who actually heard it has refrained from judging its sound. BTW couldn't Sonus Faber create a favorable conditions to simply make it sound good.? And BTW Firedog, yes I'm actually pretty convinced I could suggest 10 audio systems (suited to different tastes and different rooms) for the same ammount of money sounding better for most listeners in about 20 minutes. And yes, I know I sound more than slightly arrogant here. As for your 'love for all-in-one systems' CA, I hope you won't mind if I start to believe you when you put one in your listening room.. But going back to the main subject - another reason of my concern is the danger that if a person who knows little about audiophile gear is told that some lifestyle, bad sounding audio system is what hi-end audio is all about, he or she may never discover a world of real quality sound and become a 'lost' person for a world of good hi-fi . I understand very well the constraints (and even necessary compromises) present in audio journalism (as a dealer and also for a brief moment a countrywide distibutor of a certain audio brand I had a chance to observe them quite closely) but this is where the responsibility (isn't it a little unfashionable word today.?) of audio press and other media comes into picture. Meaning some things should be called (more or less) straightforward. For instance (but please treat it as just an example) lifestyle audio's main point of interest isn't best possible SQ for a given amount of money ratio. BTW, Computer Audiophile I don't think I 'have an axe to grind'. Except from the views that are pure (!) nonsense to me - if this is the case I'm sometimes ready to 'grind' them. I do have 20+ years of experience in audio and music world, a big part of it being professionally active in the field. I have my views, some of which some may find not acceptable. I'm ready to defend them maybe from time time in a slightly too uncompromising (or for that matter not 'politically correct') way. Maybe I do speak too often 'from my heart' when the subject is music and sound but I'm glad I'm still able to be passionate about it. They are too big part of my life to be able (or even want) to discuss them always in a 'coldblooded' manner.

And (completly) BTW - do you guys like the SF16's looks.? I remain slightly unimpressed. Which I cannot say about many other examples of (not necessarily lifestyle) audio gear..

I can't resist a temptation to post a photo of one of my personal favorites (sounds good too) :

 

all in one units are not main system replacements for people who have the room. I have an all in one in my house and love it. When my wife and daughter crank up Beyoncé on the Naim Mu-so it makes me very happy. Undeniable enjoyment made possible by an all in one.

[semente]

When my eldest son cranks up Beyoncé or the like I point straight at the headphones.

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[sphinxsix]

I think they look like an uglier, angular version of the Davone Rays with Lamborghini-like rearview mirrors.

If you compare the design of Jadis Eurythmie with Davone Ray I'm afraid I can't help you my friend..

And in fact I'm afraid nothing can.

Don't ever consider a career as an art dealer :)

[semente]

If you compare the design of Jadis Eurythmie with Davone Ray I'm afraid I can't help you my friend..

And in fact I'm afraid nothing can.

Don't ever consider a career as an art dealer :)

Actually I was commenting on the new Sonus Faber.

 

The Jadis are beautiful and might sound nice too, which is more than can be said of the all-in-one from SF.

[sphinxsix]

Actually I was commenting on the new Sonus Faber.

Sorry, you've written 'they' so I thought you meant Jadis.