audiophile65 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 OK, here's another stupid little question that only I can dream up of. Paul McCartney and Wings' "Band on the Run" is, of course, available at HDTracks in two yummy flavors -- uncompressed or compressed. Which should I go with?? Link to comment
kennyb123 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Why desire compression? I went with uncompressed. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120 Amp & Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali v1 and Typhon x1 power conditioners, Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation and Infinity power cords, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation XLR interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD 60 speaker cables, GIK bass traps, ASC Isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels, Quadraspire SVT rack, PGGB 256 Link to comment
firedog Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Uncompressed sounds better to me. Uncompressed means it sounds better, and if you want it louder you turn up the volume. Compressed means the SQ is compromised from the get go. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
audiophile65 Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 Uncompressed sounds better to me. Uncompressed means it sounds better, and if you want it louder you turn up the volume. Compressed means the SQ is compromised from the get go. Curious....(sounding like Lt. Commander Data).....why would HDTracks offer two alternatives of an album when one of them sounds much better than the other? Link to comment
kennyb123 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Curious....(sounding like Lt. Commander Data).....why would HDTracks offer two alternatives of an album when one of them sounds much better than the other? HDTracks sells what is provided to them by the labels. The compressed version is the original album mastering. The uncompressed is the remaster. Remasters are not always better - especially if there has been degradation of the analog tape since the prior mastering. So there could actually be a tradeoff here. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120 Amp & Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali v1 and Typhon x1 power conditioners, Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation and Infinity power cords, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation XLR interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD 60 speaker cables, GIK bass traps, ASC Isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels, Quadraspire SVT rack, PGGB 256 Link to comment
cheezmo Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 HDTracks sells what is provided to them by the labels. The compressed version is the original album mastering. The uncompressed is the remaster. Remasters are not always better - especially if there has been degradation of the analog tape since the prior mastering. So there could actually be a tradeoff here. Do you have a source for that information? I believe both were new remasters, just that one was compressed for modern iPod type listening and the other was left uncompressed for audiophiles. This is the first time I've heard it claimed that the compressed version was an older mastering. Link to comment
kennyb123 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Do you have a source for that information? I believe both were new remasters, just that one was compressed for modern iPod type listening and the other was left uncompressed for audiophiles. This is the first time I've heard it claimed that the compressed version was an older mastering. I was just quoting what's posted at HDTracks. Click "About This Album": http://www.hdtracks.com/band-on-the-run-hi-res-digital-download-compressed Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120 Amp & Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali v1 and Typhon x1 power conditioners, Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation and Infinity power cords, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation XLR interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD 60 speaker cables, GIK bass traps, ASC Isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels, Quadraspire SVT rack, PGGB 256 Link to comment
c-eling Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 If these are the same as the 2012's that they offered on his website, at least for Ram this applies Limited, slightly added compression Unlimited, no additional compression, both use the 2012 remaster Link to comment
oso Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 What is the Dynamic range of the uncompressed version? Here is a whole bunch to choose from; Album list - Dynamic Range Database Link to comment
firedog Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 HDTracks sells what is provided to them by the labels. The compressed version is the original album mastering. The uncompressed is the remaster. Remasters are not always better - especially if there has been degradation of the analog tape since the prior mastering. So there could actually be a tradeoff here. No exactly the opposite. They are both remasters. They are the same remaster, except that the compressed version has had additional volume compression added to it to make it louder. The compressed version is less like the original than the uncompressed version. Why are there 2 versions? B/c someone at Apple/Abbey Road understood that the compressed version sounded more modern and up to date, but that the uncompressed version was more likely to appeal to audiophiles. And don't forget, this was McCartney's first foray into hi-res downloads, and was done before the other Beatles and "everybody" in classic 60's - 70's Rock had released hi-res: so they weren't sure what would sell and what wouldn't. Therefore 2 versions. The last couple of McCartney hi-res versions have not had 2 versions, and have been moderately volume compressed. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I was just quoting what's posted at HDTracks. Click "About This Album": Band on the Run / Hi-Res Digital Download [Compressed] | HDtracks - The World's Greatest-Sounding Music Downloads Not sure how HDT got that. I bought the original release of both versions from the McCartney web site before it was at HDT. The description by McCartney and Abbey Road agrees with what I wrote earlier and with what was also written about Ram. HDT clearly screwed up the description - wouldn't be the first time. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Here's a quote from Allan Rouse, who did the remaster: The release of The Beatles’ remasters in 2009 saw a marked change in attitudes towards these issues, where both noise reduction and limiting were used sparingly with the aim of representing the master tapes more accurately. Such is the case with the newly remastered CD of Band on the Run: tape noise reduction has scarcely been used and the degree of limiting is subtle. In addition digital technology has advanced with the ability now to offer recordings in 24 bit/96kHz. The high resolution version is being made available via download and is being offered in two formats: limited, which is comparable in volume to the remastered CD, and un-limited, which in comparison with the limited version will sound quieter, but retain the dynamic range of the original master recording. Get it? It's the same remaster, but the compressed version has added volume compression, relative to the original master. Note: in British, unlimited means uncompressed, and limited means compressed. The remastered CD is also the same remaster, but converted to 16/44.1 and is compressed - it's a conversion to Redbook of the 24/96 compressed version. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
kennyb123 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Get it? It's the same remaster, but the compressed version has added volume compression, relative to the original master. Note: in British, unlimited means uncompressed, and limited means compressed. The remastered CD is also the same remaster, but converted to 16/44.1 and is compressed - it's a conversion to Redbook of the 24/96 compressed version. Awesome clarification. Thanks! Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120 Amp & Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali v1 and Typhon x1 power conditioners, Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation and Infinity power cords, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation XLR interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD 60 speaker cables, GIK bass traps, ASC Isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels, Quadraspire SVT rack, PGGB 256 Link to comment
oso Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Anybody? What is the Dynamic range of the uncompressed version? Here is a whole bunch to choose from; Album list - Dynamic Range Database Link to comment
firedog Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Anybody? foobar2000 1.3.8 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.0 log date: 2016-07-05 20:13:08 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Paul McCartney / Band On the Run 2010 remaster unlimited 24-96 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -0.17 dB -15.94 dB 5:14 01-Band on the Run DR12 -0.02 dB -14.74 dB 4:09 02-Jet DR13 -1.67 dB -17.32 dB 3:25 03-Bluebird DR11 -1.09 dB -14.64 dB 4:42 04-Mrs. Vandebilt DR11 -1.72 dB -14.94 dB 4:50 05-Let Me Roll It DR13 -1.68 dB -17.13 dB 4:51 06-Mamunia DR10 -3.38 dB -16.10 dB 2:36 07-No Words DR13 -2.17 dB -17.94 dB 5:49 08-Picasso's Last Words (Drink to Me) DR11 -0.02 dB -15.25 dB 5:32 09-Nineteen Hundred and Eighty Five -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 9 Official DR value: DR12 Samplerate: 96000 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 24 Bitrate: 2979 kbps Codec: FLAC ================================================================================ Didn't include the bonus tracks Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
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