Islamists attack Radiohead fans.

[AudioDoctor]

I don't know anything about Mental Illnesses, but I have a hypothesis that the heat in places such as the American South and the Middle East drives people crazy...

[firedog]

ME? I was responding to the fait accompli post by YOUR Brother in Arms, Paul R. He made the post and I responded why I think he is wrong based on her duplicitous and illegal activities.

 

Trust me, if I "come off crazy" for pointing out that Hillary who is a complete and utter failure in everything she does, supports and condones her husband who is a rapist and molester, who engaged in illegal and seditious activities while SOS with her email server taking money for her "Foundation" for self-enrichment regardless of the consequences to our country then I am guilty as charged. The real crazy thing is that so many choose to support her regardless of her baggage. Pretty remarkable.

 

 

You forgot murderer....

[Priaptor]

Priaptor-

 

There's a difference between discussing in a general way the attack on the Radiohead fans in Turkey and turning it into commentary on Hillary, Obama, etc. It isn't necessary to bring them into the discussion in order to discuss the original post. Do you not see that? Or are you so consumed by your own POV that you just can't resist making those comments, even when they aren't really called for? That's a kind of "emotional facism", as Elvis Costello would say. Not everything has to get turned into a platform for your personal political sermonizing.

 

This request has nothing to do with my personal political views. You sort of don't get that when you turn threads into a personal commentary on American politics, you're hijacking them in a way that isn't constructive. This is an audio forum and we're certainly not going to settle differences in views on American elections and social issues here. We can talk about the place of music and free expression in various societies in the world without bringing "Clinton's treason" and the like into the discussion.

 

FD,

 

My last post on this topic as these threads are clearly outnumbered with the so called liberal "tolerant" people. I kind of find it amazing that so many are outraged when these kind of things as in the OP happen YET when those here in America recognize the same and express the same point of view they are criticized for being xenophobic right wing nuts, as wsgott loves to freely throw the term around to demonstrate his incredible intolerance to people like myself who have different viewpoints.

 

I guess unless you have been living under a rock for the last 15 years, the OP refers to what here in the states and in your country of Israel represents one of the biggest political divides among the people in both countries and for that matter most of the world. It is hard NOT to get into political discourse which in wsgotts case leads to his typical ad hominem attacks when such a divisive topic is posted.

 

Wsgott and his political like minded cohorts are "surprised" by the action in Turkey at a Radiohead concert?? I am amazed they are so clueless as to current events, along with their like minded political cohorts, to express surprise at such acts. Sorry FD, it is all about politics, whether you want to believe it or not because at least here in America, that dominates the current state of affairs.

[wgscott]

The only thing that surprises me is that you are incapable of seeing the inherent irony in your own bizarre intolerance that drives you to go nutty in any thread where you imagine an opinion at variance with your own might be hidden.

 

I think FD is exactly right. He and I have disagreed on many things, but when he thinks I am wrong, he (usually) gives me a cogent, coherent and logically presented argument, which in some cases has convinced me he is right and I am wrong (eg: Roger Waters). Your ranting, even when it happens to completely agree with what he is saying, has never succeeded in convincing me of anything, apart from questioning whether this is some sort of bizarre internet performance art, or whether you truly are mentally unstable.

 

Kind of like attacking people listening to Radiohead.

 

Meanwhile, the police attacked protesters with tear gas and water cannons. Not the radical islamists, but those who were supporting the Radiohead fans.

[tranz]

And you are surprised by this lack of tolerance?

 

This intolerance is coming to a theater or club soon in Western Europe and the US. Oh, wait....too late.

[firedog]

This intolerance is coming to a theater or club soon in Western Europe and the US. Oh, wait....too late.

 

Note: the radical intolerant Islamists in Turkey didn't fire weapons into the Radiohead crowd. I think that's a significant difference. We can discuss what the difference is, or if it is significant.

[tranz]

Note: the radical intolerant Islamists in Turkey didn't fire weapons into the Radiohead crowd. I think that's a significant difference. We can discuss what the difference is, or if it is significant.

 

It may just be a little harder to get a gun in Turkey, the sentiment and root cause is one and the same.

[master]

Note: the radical intolerant Islamists in Turkey didn't fire weapons into the Radiohead crowd. I think that's a significant difference. We can discuss what the difference is, or if it is significant.

 

Could only be because guns aren't so easy to come by there... so they had to make do with bottles.

 

Imagine the same mob in the US and with "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed".

[firedog]

FD,

 

My last post on this topic as these threads are clearly outnumbered with the so called liberal "tolerant" people. I kind of find it amazing that so many are outraged when these kind of things as in the OP happen YET when those here in America recognize the same and express the same point of view they are criticized for being xenophobic right wing nuts, as wsgott loves to freely throw the term around to demonstrate his incredible intolerance to people like myself who have different viewpoints.

 

I guess unless you have been living under a rock for the last 15 years, the OP refers to what here in the states and in your country of Israel represents one of the biggest political divides among the people in both countries and for that matter most of the world. It is hard NOT to get into political discourse which in wsgotts case leads to his typical ad hominem attacks when such a divisive topic is posted.

 

Wsgott and his political like minded cohorts are "surprised" by the action in Turkey at a Radiohead concert?? I am amazed they are so clueless as to current events, along with their like minded political cohorts, to express surprise at such acts. Sorry FD, it is all about politics, whether you want to believe it or not because at least here in America, that dominates the current state of affairs.

 

As far as my country, I think there is mostly agreement between left and right about radical Islam. The left here has few, if any, illusions about it. The divide between left and right here is not on the same issues and the same basis as in the States.

 

As far as the OP, note that my original response to him was to ask him if he was surprised by what happened. And as you apparently didn't notice, he said no.

 

WG has a wicked sense of humor and satire, so sometimes I like to check on where he's coming from and not make assumptions. I sort of expected his answer, as he isn't a dummy. So as he noted "My point was to denigrate irrational zealots in general, not to attract them to post in the thread."

 

Unfortunately, you made all sorts of other baseless assumptions and went off on one of your rants. Totally uncalled for, as it is possible to discuss intolerance and zealots without all the "sedition and rapist" commentary. I think I've heard or participated in hundreds of discussions on the subject of radical Islam and religious intolerance in which the Clintons, Obama, the Democrats, and email servers were never mentioned. Nor the Republicans, Trump, Bush and the second amendment to the US Constitution. Amazing, isn't it?

[jabbr]

ME? I was responding to the fait accompli post by YOUR Brother in Arms, Paul R. He made the post and I responded why I think he is wrong based on her duplicitous and illegal activities.

 

Trust me, if I "come off crazy" for pointing out that Hillary who is a complete and utter failure in everything she does, supports and condones her husband who is a rapist and molester, who engaged in illegal and seditious activities while SOS with her email server taking money for her "Foundation" for self-enrichment regardless of the consequences to our country then I am guilty as charged. The real crazy thing is that so many choose to support her regardless of her baggage. Pretty remarkable.

 

So let's go back to denigrating Islamists as that was the point of your OP, no?

 

Can you make some attempt to step back and read this rant and try to convince yourself that you aren't a ...

 

1) Bill Clinton ? rapist / molester : Donald Trump : ... I could make all sorts of similar statements

 

2) illegal email server? WTF? people should be free to use whatever sort of communications they want without government interference -- what sort of fascist are you? What about the thousands of emails that your bud Trump deleted ? Russian mob connections

 

3) "foundation"? really? vs Russian mob connections ? you want Putin running our country? Are you a deep cover commie plant? Or just deeply out of touch?

 

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-mob-organized-crime-213910

[firedog]

Can you make some attempt to step back and read this rant and try to convince yourself that you aren't a ...

 

1) Bill Clinton ? rapist / molester : Donald Trump : ... I could make all sorts of similar statements

 

2) illegal email server? WTF? people should be free to use whatever sort of communications they want without government interference -- what sort of fascist are you? What about the thousands of emails that your bud Trump deleted ? Russian mob connections

 

3) "foundation"? really? vs Russian mob connections ? you want Putin running our country? Are you a deep cover commie plant? Or just deeply out of touch?

 

Just What Were Donald Trump's Ties to the Mob? - POLITICO Magazine

 

I know this isn't my thread, but this response is also just as out of place as what Priaptor wrote. It's a bit of "feeding the troll". Does anyone have an actual comment to make about the OP?

[wgscott]

The new album is growing on me.

[master]

Does anyone have an actual comment to make about the OP?

 

There really isn't anything there to say is there?

 

Things are only going to get worse.

 

I saw a really bad movie... London Has Fallen (actually wife made me tag along for Mr. Butler)... but what they showed is bound to happen... maybe not so bad or maybe worse?

 

And you really cannot blame them or us or anyone else for that matter.

 

PS: I've not heard the album yet... ordered but the CD is still to arrive.

[Priaptor]

I know this isn't my thread, but this response is also just as out of place as what Priaptor wrote. It's a bit of "feeding the troll". Does anyone have an actual comment to make about the OP?

 

Yes. What amazes me is that people like wsgott are surprised and upset about the intolerance of Islam to a Radiohead concert but yet express no such surprise to the much more egregious acts of intolerance committed by the same Islamists worldwide, including America. The head Iman of the Orlando Mosque in expressing his condolences for what happened at the nightclub last week in the SAME SENTENCE was asking for people to understand their anti-gay beliefs. Pretty useless act of contrition if you ask me. His comments are in yesterday's WSJ if you want to look.

 

Unlike wsgott, Obama, Clinton and the left in general, I am not surprised by what happened at the Radiohead concert. However, if it takes something as shallow and insignificant as the intolerant act of Islamists at a Radiohead for the left to get their heads out of their close minded rear ends to recognize the issue then it is a good thing.

[jabbr]

I know this isn't my thread, but this response is also just as out of place as what Priaptor wrote. It's a bit of "feeding the troll". Does anyone have an actual comment to make about the OP?

 

 

You are correct, I'm being intolerant, my apologies.

 

The new album is growing on me.

 

Yes. I'd love to be able to see them live ... maybe Chicago

[jabbr]

 

Unlike wsgott, Obama, Clinton and the left in general, I am not surprised by what happened at the Radiohead concert. However, if it takes something as shallow and insignificant as the intolerant act of Islamists at a Radiohead for the left to get their heads out of their close minded rear ends to recognize the issue then it is a good thing.

 

We are in a forum which discusses music and artists as well as equipment. Radiohead has long played a leading role regarding the application of digital technology to music including being one of the first to offer direct downloads etc. The issue at hand occurred at an album release event at a record store in Istanbul -- where it was quite possible that members of this forum were in attendance.

 

Certainly not the worst example of Islamic extremism but one of the only examples I know which is actually on topic for this forum.

 

Hopefully I am not branded a "leftist" or "rightist" by my music preferences, not that this didn't actually happen during the Roy Cohn-McCarthy years.

[wgscott]

Yes. What amazes me is that people like wsgott

 

Odd that someone who labels himself "priapic" all over the internet, and then acts like one, should feel the need to mangle my username.

 

 

are surprised and upset about the intolerance of Islam to a Radiohead concert

 

The only thing that surprised me was that a Radiohead listening party (not a concert -- reading comprehension really isn't your strong point, is it?) was a target. However, my guess is it was the alcohol being consumed on a holy day that was relevant, and I doubt the fact it involved Radiohead ever crossed their tiny, priapic minds.

 

 

but yet express no such surprise to the much more egregious acts of intolerance committed by the same Islamists worldwide, including America.

 

I think they were different islamists. The Orlando guy probably wasn't in Turkey yesterday. Hard for a tiny, priapic mind to grasp, I admit.

 

Unlike wsgott, Obama, Clinton and the left in general,

 

I'm "Left"? What a laugh. There is no Left left in United States politics (except possibly Bernie). Clinton is a rather right-wing liberal, for example. Your analysis is so priapic-headed, it doesn't even qualify as shallow.

 

I am not surprised by what happened at the Radiohead concert. However, if it takes something as shallow and insignificant as the intolerant act of Islamists at a Radiohead for the left to get their heads out of their close minded rear ends to recognize the issue then it is a good thing.

 

If you are truly bothered by the spread of Islamofascism, why not go after the funding source: The Bush clan's best buddies, i.e., the Saudis, who provide the major funding for Hamas and Isis, and attacked us on 11 Sept. 2001. Only a priapic Islamofascist apologist like you could overlook that.

[PopPop]

Yes. What amazes me is that people like wsgott are surprised and upset about the intolerance of Islam to a Radiohead concert . . .

 

Let's be accurate here. The intolerance was not toward the musicians, it was to the behavior of the audience.

 

While I offer no support for violent behavior from anyone, if the ugly American insists being tone deaf in a diverse world then he/she had better prepare for some push-back that is just as ugly.

[Priaptor]

I truly love the distortions and polemics of love, tolerance and music on these threads. The "Ugly American", liquor inebriated Muslims on their holy day, Bush Clan perpetrators, blah blah blah.

 

So just to make it clear to this gun toting right wing religious fanatical lunatic, is the left wing wsnott asking if one is surprised that inebriated Islamists on their holy day acted appropriately at some important Radiohead expose in response to the "Ugly American" as a result of Bush Clan politics and that if only, according to PopPop, we expressed ignorant tolerance as displayed by the Obama/Clan all would have been different? I get it so we shouldn't be surprised because their intolerance is because of Bush, the NRA, Ugly Americans and alcohol consumed by Muslims.

 

Yes I guess I'm not surprised by wgsnut's OP

 

Yes wingnut you qualify as a left wing liberal. Endorse it you earned the title. Why do lefties hate the brand so much??

[PopPop]

We're very sensitive. [emoji4]

[Priaptor]

We're very sensitive. [emoji4]

 

All good!!

 

I think the term Ugly American is no longer applicable except maybe as it fits Hillary. I think it has been replaced by the naive and stupid American. The latter a much better choice given how dumb most Americans have become

[christopher3393]

Here's a little more thorough account: Turkish Radiohead fans attacked for 'consuming alcohol' - News from Al Jazeera

 

It was a small event held by a Korean record store owner. People drifted in and out. Small crowd. Low key event Didn't look like many were drinking. Radiohead recording was playing in the background. The attack kind of came out of nowhere. The following night several hundred protested the attack, many spoke out against it in social media saying the attack was not in the spirit of Ramadan or Islam. Several suspects are under arrest. Poor record store owner has lost his lease.

 

Makes me wonder if the attackers were Salafi. Salafism seems to be growing at a rapid rate in Turkey, which is very problematic, imo. Not all Salafists are jihadists, but it is a fundamentalist and very strict, conservative, intolerant form of Islam. Many Islamic theologians have been quite critical of it. Salafism is very different from some of the other more mainstream approaches to Islam. There are great Islamic cultural traditions, including music, art, architecture, mathematics, philosophy, literature (some great poetry!). But it is not clear to me to what extent these traditions are appreciated by the rigorous extremists. Quran has a very rich and sophisticated history of interpretation, very complex in its readings of Quran and Hadith. Salafism denounces most of this as inauthentic.

 

But it is helpful for me to keep in mind that this is the Islam of a minority of Muslims. And of course, it is much more complicated than I've made it. And this is just my own perspective.

 

I wonder what music is popular in Istanbul? Srajan Ebaen at sixmoons used to review a lot of middle-eastern music, including new Turkish recordings. I'd sample these at times and some of it is great. Jordi Savall has 2 recordings centered on Istanbul. Here's one of them:

 

[video=youtube;vFPyO_BAK-I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFPyO_BAK-I

[PopPop]

That's where we differ. The term ugly American is more applicable now than it has ever been, and it applies across the political spectrum. But I agree with you, it's a result of conceit, ignorance and our sense of privilege.

[jabbr]

I'm not sure what left-wing and right-wing means anymore. I was taught that right wing meant fascist : Schoenberg's situation was interesting -- although he himself considered his radical music to be inspired by German nationalism, the German nationalists though ought rejected his music as "Jewish" -- thankfully he was able to emigrate to America, despite the widespread views that Jews were agents of Communism (left-wing) . We should similarly be thankful for our ability to accept Hindemith.

 

How did the Communists (left wing) treat modern composers? There is the well known relationship (he he) between Stalin & Shostakovich who was forced to create more nationalistic music in order to save his career.

 

So nationalism seems to be thematic of both left and right wing.

 

So right vs left wing? Similarities? Differences? Country, blues, folk, jazz, metal, rap? Is music identified with politics?

[jabbr]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aCDY8lHbb90/Th2INb7cwKI/AAAAAAAAAE0/zrFDdN5eGh8/s1600/no+secrets.jpg

 

My favorite album cover with no question, during my teenage years -- does that make me a lefty? I'd be a lefty for the night