Ethernet cables

[jos]

One last question Plissken: is shielding making sense in music system? I bought the Supra USB 2.0 cable because it could be longer then 5m. I am not sure it is needed for Ethernet cable in music system at home.

 

 

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[plissken]

One last question Plissken: is shielding making sense in music system? I bought the Supra USB 2.0 cable because it could be longer then 5m. I am not sure it is needed for Ethernet cable in music system at home.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

 

3 things to know about shield:

 

Inter-pair shield: Signals on 1 pair don't interfere with the other 3 pairs. That is each pair is foil wrapped and this is floated.

 

Inter-bundle shield: shield around all 4 pairs (that are independently already shielded) that prevent other cables in a large, bundled run, from interfering with neighboring cables in the same run

 

External noise shield: Shield around the cable that is generally tied to rack/equipment ground that is useful in horribly EMI/RFI noisy, usually, industrial environments.

 

My hope is more and more DAC's become an Ethernet connected endpoint and something like Ravenna makes it into the consumer space.

 

You don't need it, typically, for home use. I guess it COULD be needed, I've yet to see this be the case.

[jos]

3 things to know about shield:

 

Inter-pair shield: Signals on 1 pair don't interfere with the other 3 pairs. That is each pair is foil wrapped and this is floated.

 

Inter-bundle shield: shield around all 4 pairs (that are independently already shielded) that prevent other cables in a large, bundled run, from interfering with neighboring cables in the same run

 

External noise shield: Shield around the cable that is generally tied to rack/equipment ground that is useful in horribly EMI/RFI noisy, usually, industrial environments.

 

My hope is more and more DAC's become an Ethernet connected endpoint and something like Ravenna makes it into the consumer space.

 

You don't need it, typically, for home use. I guess it COULD be needed, I've yet to see this be the case.

 

Clear, thanks, so it's at least questionable. I agree with you about an Ethernet connected DAC/player as an endpoint. My next DAC/player should have an Ethernet connection too.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[Milt99]

FWIW, I'm starting to assemble a more sophisticated "networked-based" digital music system.

I originally signed on today to ask a question about Optical Fiber cable vs Ethernet cable for my system.

In our data center, they went through a 6 month swap out of legacy CAT cable for all Fibre cables.

No one here seems to talk about Fibre networks.

 

Anyway after reading this thread I'm going with BlueJeansCable Cat-6A but will be talking to the Telecom boys first.

As far as I can discern, BlueJeans is the only cable provider that gives you a data report on the very cable they make for you.

 

I'm not saying that posters who hear differences in Ethernet cables of different brands aren't hearing a difference.

But I would point out that if I'm paying premium money for a cable of this type, why don't they offer you the same data?

I will also admit that if BlueJeans offered a Cat 7 or 7a or 8 I would likely by it.

 

So thanks to the OP for this thread as it has saved me a ton of reading and posting a question that would likely die on the vine.

[plissken]

Fiber is quite popular here. I prefer wireless as it's providing all the benefits of isolation, it's affordable, it has way more bandwidth and the low latency you need.

 

My playback machine routinely is above 400Mbps and under 2ms ping rate. I run a wireless SSID for general use and another for just my 2.0 setup.

 

My HT is hardwired as I needed to future proof it for HD both 2 and 4K when I setup 8 years ago. Just two runs of CAT5e so I'll be good for 5Gbps in the future.

[Milt99]

Fiber is quite popular here. I prefer wireless as it's providing all the benefits of isolation, it's affordable, it has way more bandwidth and the low latency you need.

 

My playback machine routinely is above 400Mbps and under 2ms ping rate. I run a wireless SSID for general use and another for just my 2.0 setup.

 

My HT is hardwired as I needed to future proof it for HD both 2 and 4K when I setup 8 years ago. Just two runs of CAT5e so I'll be good for 5Gbps in the future.

Huh, interesting as I didn't run anything but Belden 1694a coax when I reno'd the house I bought in late 2004 as I thought that these cable were more than sufficient for 1080 A\V and that wireless would sufficiently advance by the time I needed to have said bandwidth that running cables would be a waste of time & money.

I have to say that I never anticipated the networked digital audio Hi-Res infrastructure as it exits today.

I've had a solid 5GbPS+ capable Wi-Fi network for quite a while now.

[plissken]

Huh, interesting as I didn't run anything but Belden 1694a coax when I reno'd the house I bought in late 2004 as I thought that these cable were more than sufficient for 1080 A\V and that wireless would sufficiently advance by the time I needed to have said bandwidth that running cables would be a waste of time & money.

I have to say that I never anticipated the networked digital audio Hi-Res infrastructure as it exits today.

I've had a solid 5GbPS+ capable Wi-Fi network for quite a while now.

 

What multi-gigabit wireless hardware are you running? Are you talking signalling frequency or throughput?

 

5Ghz is one thing. 5Gbps (500MB/s) is quite another.

[jos]

FWIW, I'm starting to assemble a more sophisticated "networked-based" digital music system.

I originally signed on today to ask a question about Optical Fiber cable vs Ethernet cable for my system.

In our data center, they went through a 6 month swap out of legacy CAT cable for all Fibre cables.

No one here seems to talk about Fibre networks.

 

Anyway after reading this thread I'm going with BlueJeansCable Cat-6A but will be talking to the Telecom boys first.

As far as I can discern, BlueJeans is the only cable provider that gives you a data report on the very cable they make for you.

 

I'm not saying that posters who hear differences in Ethernet cables of different brands aren't hearing a difference.

But I would point out that if I'm paying premium money for a cable of this type, why don't they offer you the same data?

I will also admit that if BlueJeans offered a Cat 7 or 7a or 8 I would likely by it.

 

So thanks to the OP for this thread as it has saved me a ton of reading and posting a question that would likely die on the vine.

Perhaps interesting, see SUPRA CAT8 STP shielded networkcable

[Milt99]

What multi-gigabit wireless hardware are you running? Are you talking signalling frequency or throughput?

 

5Ghz is one thing. 5Gbps (500MB/s) is quite another.

Oops, mistyped it's an Asus AC 5GHertz :-[

[witchdoctor]

It's Placebo.

 

I have $2000 that say's there isn't a soul here that can reliably pick in a SBT an audiophile Ethernet cable vs some bog standard BJC or Tripplite where all cable pass spec.

 

CAT7 technically doesn't exist since there isn't ratified standard as of yet.

 

It's pure bullshit. Playback systems are buffered. This means you can pull the cable out and the music will still continue to play. I could even do a simple test were we setup the system with only the single cable and a believer would only need indicate when the cable was removed from the switch.

 

Plissken your post is a plaebo. Give it a rest bashing ethernet cables. I took your "test" and the wyreworld was noticeably better. You can keep your $2000 and use it to upgrade your stereo.... your welcome:)

 

OP, look at post #198 in this thread-

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/wireworld-starlight-cat-8-cable-review-31391/index8.html

[plissken]

Plissken your post is a plaebo. Give it a rest bashing ethernet cables. I took your "test" and the wyreworld was noticeably better. You can keep your $2000 and use it to upgrade your stereo.... your welcome:)

 

OP, look at post #198 in this thread-

 

 

You not only missed 80% of changes (not even close) you didn't even know how many changes I made.

 

Listen to the vocal track and report back your findings. Good luck.

[plissken]

OP, look at post #198 in this thread-

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/wireworld-starlight-cat-8-cable-review-31391/index8.html

 

I wanted to respond to this individually:

 

1. What you heard is in my screencasting me explaining my setup. This was on a third computer with a USB

mic. Its was sitting there on it's own.

 

2. What you THOUGHT was me recording something back through the AD loop, including my voice over, I

was showing you the proof of concept actually working while I played a test track and proving that the

track was not interrupted with the swap in cabling.

 

3. Only the severely uninformed would think that recording a stereo system, on a mono device, and posting

it to YouTube could really convey any meaningful performance or fidelity.

 

I've already explained this in the other thread. The fact that your mental gears are still grinding over this perceived incongruity is very telling.

[witchdoctor]

You not only missed 80% of changes (not even close) you didn't even know how many changes I made.

 

Listen to the vocal track and report back your findings. Good luck.

 

Look again, I nailed every change within 5-10 seconds except the last one.. get over it and move on with your life, if not for yourself at least for the rest of us.

[jhwalker]

Look again, I nailed every change within 5-10 seconds except the last one.. get over it and move on with your life, if not for yourself at least for the rest of us.

 

"Nailed" every change within 5-10 seconds? How is this "nailing" anything? "Nailing" the changes wold be immediate recognition; i.e., within 1 sec + / - .

 

Your random guesses are just that - random.

[plissken]

Look again, I nailed every change within 5-10 seconds except the last one.. get over it and move on with your life, if not for yourself at least for the rest of us.

 

You don't get it: 5-10 seconds is a gross miss. The song is only 1:49 long so I'm not surprised the guessing somehow puts you in the 5-10 second range. I could roll dice and get that.

 

If JHWalker doesn't mind I'll go ahead and PM him the time changes ahead of you evaluating the 2nd track if you are game. Let me know.

[witchdoctor]

You don't get it: 5-10 seconds is a gross miss. The song is only 1:49 long so I'm not surprised the guessing somehow puts you in the 5-10 second range. I could roll dice and get that.

 

If JHWalker doesn't mind I'll go ahead and PM him the time changes ahead of you evaluating the 2nd track if you are game. Let me know.

 

Plissken, you can't even pass the test about the shape of the world. You put a ruler on the ground and thought the world was flat, remember? When will you change your handle to "flat earther"?

 

[witchdoctor]

"Nailed" every change within 5-10 seconds? How is this "nailing" anything? "Nailing" the changes wold be immediate recognition; i.e., within 1 sec + / - .

 

Your random guesses are just that - random.

 

 

+

 

=

 

[davide256]

Fiber is quite popular here. I prefer wireless as it's providing all the benefits of isolation, it's affordable, it has way more bandwidth and the low latency you need.

 

My playback machine routinely is above 400Mbps and under 2ms ping rate. I run a wireless SSID for general use and another for just my 2.0 setup.

 

My HT is hardwired as I needed to future proof it for HD both 2 and 4K when I setup 8 years ago. Just two runs of CAT5e so I'll be good for 5Gbps in the future.

 

How do you mitigate device contention and signal blocking issues (metal ducts, support beams, etc)? I experienced good things with the Aries mini using wifi but not if the router and it were on different levels of the home.

[plissken]

How do you mitigate device contention and signal blocking issues (metal ducts, support beams, etc)? I experienced good things with the Aries mini using wifi but not if the router and it were on different levels of the home.

 

Because all things being equal you can get an Ethernet cable pulled and use POE to drive the AP or Router easier than pulling cable all the way to the exact location.

 

I've never met a situation where it was easier to pull a cable to the exact location I had to place equipment vs just getting a WAP to a vicinity.

 

What kind of device contention? I run a dedicated AP on it's own SSID and channel vs the rest of my home.

[EdmontonCanuck]

At the risk of re-starting a flame war, I just received an email from Cookie at Blue Coast Records where she discussed how an ethernet cable sounded different:

 

Can Ethernet Cables Make A Difference?

 

Can anyone shed some light on what Cookie may have been hearing here?

[mansr]

16 minutes ago, EdmontonCanuck said:

At the risk of re-starting a flame war, I just received an email from Cookie at Blue Coast Records where she discussed how an ethernet cable sounded different:

 

Can Ethernet Cables Make A Difference?

 

Can anyone shed some light on what Cookie may have been hearing here?

An Ethernet cable simply cannot cause the differences she describes. I have no idea what she heard, but it definitely wasn't caused by the cables.

[mansr]

She makes good recordings though.

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, mansr said:

She makes good recordings though.

 Obviously she has access to far better gear , top quality music , and far more experience in this area than the 2 local Yokels who never endingly knock every subjective report,  based on outdated technical research and lack of willingness to try some of even the simpler improvements suggested by qualified E.E. members such as J.S.

And of course, she has vastly more experience and better hearing abilities due to many years of experience in this area.

Even Mansr agrees that "She makes good recordings though."

 

 Cookie is a C.A. member , so if you are into Ethernet cables and DSD recordings ,(I am not )  let her know that you are interested in her proposed test, and I feel sure that she could set up a far more meaningful and unbiased test than either of the 2 main resident "Naysayers."

You won't need to wave a wad of cash around either!

 

Quote

Write to us at [email protected] (link sends e-mail) with the subject Ethernet Cable Test.  - Cookie Marenco

 

[Speed Racer]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Obviously she has access to far better gear , top quality music , and far more experience in this area than the 2 local Yokels who never endingly knock every subjective report,  based on outdated technical research and lack of willingness to try some of even the simpler improvements suggested by qualified E.E. members such as J.S.

And of course, she has vastly more experience and better hearing abilities due to many years of experience in this area.

Even Mansr agrees that "She makes good recordings though."

 

 Cookie is a C.A. member , so if you are into Ethernet cables and DSD recordings ,(I am not )  let her know that you are interested in her proposed test, and I feel sure that she could set up a far more meaningful and unbiased test than either of the 2 main resident "Naysayers."

You won't need to wave a wad of cash around either!

 

 

 

What has John Swenson said about Ethernet cables other than you don’t want the shield attached to the switches?

 

You keep evoking his name to minimize what other have said. Who here is contradicting John’s ideas?

[plissken]

20 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Obviously she has access to far better gear , top quality music , and far more experience in this area than the 2 local Yokels who never endingly knock every subjective report

 

Then she should be able to make quick work of me.

20 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 based on outdated technical research and lack of willingness to try some of even the simpler improvements suggested by qualified E.E. members such as J.S.

 

Which would that be? Texas Instruments paper on Radiated Emissions of 10/100 LAN cabling or Seimons paper "The antenna myth". I'm curious as to which multi-billion dollar technology company you've now debunked. 

 

20 minutes ago, sandyk said:

And of course, she has vastly more experience and better hearing abilities due to many years of experience in this area.

Even Mansr agrees that "She makes good recordings though."

 

Great. This should be a cakewalk.