Battery power supplies for the Regen

[mink70]

I'm really enjoying my stock Regen, but would love to squeeze more performance out of it on a modest budget. At Alex's suggestion, I thought I'd start this thread for folks who are powering their Regens with batteries or would like to—both commercial products like the Kingrex Upower and also DYI.

 

I, for one, would love to find an inexpensive battery solution without spending hundreds of dollars. Several users here have commented that inexpensive lithium ion batteries on Amazon can be made to work pretty much off the shelf, and can provide better SQ than, for example, the "El Cheapo" Chinese LPS.

 

Anyone care to share their experiences, photos, and listening impressions?

[JohnSwenson]

I'm really enjoying my stock Regen, but would love to squeeze more performance out of it on a modest budget. At Alex's suggestion, I thought I'd start this thread for folks who are powering their Regens with batteries or would like to—both commercial products like the Kingrex Upower and also DYI.

 

I, for one, would love to find an inexpensive battery solution without spending hundreds of dollars. Several users here have commented that inexpensive lithium ion batteries on Amazon can be made to work pretty much off the shelf, and can provide better SQ than, for example, the "El Cheapo" Chinese LPS.

 

Anyone care to share their experiences, photos, and listening impressions?

 

I would not recommend the "charger" battery packs out there. Most of them are 5V (which may or may not work with a REGEN depending on your DAC) with a poor quality switching regulator on the output. These give significant voltage spikes on their outputs.

 

The KingRex on the other hand has a separate "7.5" volt output which is connected directly to the battery pack, this is ideal.

 

So from my standpoint I would go for a battery pack with a direct connection from the battery to the output with no regulator in between. The ones designed for RC models (cars, planes, drones) are most likely a very good choice. They will probably have the wrong plug on them, so will need an adapter or soldering a different plug on the wires.

 

John S.

[Cornan]

Hi John!

I own the KingRex uPower myself and use it to power the USB Regen. There is two things that have haunted my mind lately and I cannot really find a good answers online. If you have any knowledge about this I would appreciate some advice!

 

1. Battery supplies are sensitive to ground and tend to store the current in the chassi. Would it ve a good idea to ground the chassi to an external grounding point like Entreq Minimus?

 

2. I know that batteries just store energy from chemical reaction and in my "sensible mind" the power charging the batteries will not make any difference. My "mad scientist mind" say that the mains noises should penitrate the batteries and will make a difference with a "cleaner" output battery power...so using linear power (or even battery power charging the battery) should increase battery performance to the supplied SPMS. Which part of my mind is speaking the truth?

 

/Micael

[Cornan]

I'm really enjoying my stock Regen, but would love to squeeze more performance out of it on a modest budget. At Alex's suggestion, I thought I'd start this thread for folks who are powering their Regens with batteries or would like to—both commercial products like the Kingrex Upower and also DYI.

 

I, for one, would love to find an inexpensive battery solution without spending hundreds of dollars. Several users here have commented that inexpensive lithium ion batteries on Amazon can be made to work pretty much off the shelf, and can provide better SQ than, for example, the "El Cheapo" Chinese LPS.

 

Anyone care to share their experiences, photos, and listening impressions?

I think you might want to check this out http:// http://www.head-fi.org/t/762967/uptone-audio-usb-regen/960_40

Michael (from Elijah Audio) have promised to report back on SQ on his cheap battery solution for USB Regen.

[sandyk]

Hi John!

I own the KingRex uPower myself and use it to power the USB Regen. There is two things that have haunted my mind lately and I cannot really find a good answers online. If you have any knowledge about this I would appreciate some advice!

 

1. Battery supplies are sensitive to ground and tend to store the current in the chassi. Would it ve a good idea to ground the chassi to an external grounding point like Entreq Minimus?

 

2. I know that batteries just store energy from chemical reaction and in my "sensible mind" the power charging the batteries will not make any difference. My "mad scientist mind" say that the mains noises should penitrate the batteries and will make a difference with a "cleaner" output battery power...so using linear power (or even battery power charging the battery) should increase battery performance to the supplied SPMS. Which part of my mind is speaking the truth?

 

/Micael

 

Cornan

You have completely lost me with point 1.

It doesn't make much sense to me.

Yes, charging a battery while in use will result in noise modulating the battery power to some extent.

Even several banks in parallel of 24 series 2.2V 2,200 AH (or higher) batteries in a Telephone Exchange can't completely silence the effects of the huge rectifier cabinets that "float" them. As usual, it depends on the quality of the charging apparatus and the filtering of it's output. I use either a low noise Linear PSU followed by a Super Regulator, or a 12V 4,000mAH Li Ion rechargeable battery regulated down to +9V followed by a "Shunt" type of Super Regulator. This slightly outperforms the Linear PSU when powering the Regen, due to the capacitive coupling between Primary and Secondary sides of the transformer back to mains earth, which results in a minor earth loop.

 

Alex

[Cornan]

Cornan

You have completely lost me with point 1.

It doesn't make much sense to me.

Yes, charging a battery while in use will result in noise modulating the battery power to some extent.

Even several banks in parallel of 24 series 2.2V 2,200 AH (or higher) batteries in a Telephone Exchange can't completely silence the effects of the huge rectifier cabinets that "float" them. As usual, it depends on the quality of the charging apparatus and the filtering of it's output. I use either a low noise Linear PSU followed by a Super Regulator, or a 12V 4,000mAH Li Ion rechargeable battery regulated down to +9V followed by a "Shunt" type of Super Regulator. This slightly outperforms the Linear PSU when powering the Regen, due to the capacitive coupling between Primary and Secondary sides of the transformer back to mains earth, which results in a minor earth loop.

 

Alex

 

Thanks Sandyk! :-)

However, my question was if the battery power itself will be cleaner if charged by a linear PSU than a SPMS for example, ie. If the battery power without a connection to the mains will be cleaner if been charged by LPS than with SPMS.

 

On my point 1 I have already got an answer of my question. I e-mailed to Entreq to know if it was safe to ground my KingRex uPower

 

 

thought the Entreq Eartha USB cable

 

 

to my Entreq Minimus grounding box http://www.entreq.com/products/ground-boxes-17667704 . The answer was yes and I recently hooked it up. Without saying too much (since this will be improved during the Next 24hrs) the results exceeded my expectation with blacker and more noise free back ground...so I am happy and are expecting to be happier tomorrow! :-)

 

/Micael

[Superdad]

However, my question was if the battery power itself will be cleaner if charged by a linear PSU than a SPMS for example, ie. If the battery power without a connection to the mains will be cleaner if been charged by LPS than with SMPS.

 

So you are asking if the quality of the power that charged your battery (and was then disconnected) results in different quality of the power delivered by said battery. Uh no offense, but that seems as likely as my typed words having more emphasis if I hit the keyboards keys harder.

I'm no stranger to odd things--heck the entire operating principal of the REGEN was considered odd or ridiculous to many (still is to some) when it first came out--but it would be a long time before I'd buy into the notion that the chemicals of a battery form and discharge differently depending upon the noise and spectra of what charged them.

 

Have a great weekend all.

 

--Alex C.

[Cornan]

So you are asking if the quality of the power that charged your battery (and was then disconnected) results in different quality of the power delivered by said battery. Uh no offense, but that seems as likely as my typed words having more emphasis if I hit the keyboards keys harder.

I'm no stranger to odd things--heck the entire operating principal of the REGEN was considered odd or ridiculous to many (still is to some) when it first came out--but it would be a long time before I'd buy into the notion that the chemicals of a battery form and discharge differently depending upon the noise and spectra of what charged them.

 

Have a great weekend all.

 

--Alex C.

 

Thanks Alex! As I said in my original post this does'nt really make sense to me either...but my crazy scientist mind just had to ask. In a way AC currents is forcing itself into unimaginary places...forwards and backward etc. It would'nt surprice me if the currents is mixed in the chemical reaction and affecting the DC output...even if the sensible me says no way! ?

 

Have a nice weekend! [emoji4]

[sandyk]

Hi Cornan

 

Superdad beat me to it.

BTW, it's always best to completely remove the charger, whether SMPS, or a Linear PSU, while playing music, unless you are using a supply like the soon to be released Uptone Ultracap supply which according to it's designer John Swenson, completely isolates the supply from the mains, However, it can't stop crap getting back into the A.C. Mains sewer from an SMPS plugpack, and to a far lesser extent from a well designed Linear PSU.

 

It would'nt surprice me if the currents is mixed in the chemical reaction and affecting the DC output...even if the sensible me says no way!

That seems highly unlikely, even if you are using unfiltered rectified D.C .

A typical SMPS has a reasonably low ripple output and the high equivalent capacitance of the battery itself should take care of that very small residual, just as a large value low ESR electrolytic capacitor at it's output would.

 

 

 

Alex K.

[Cornan]

Hi Cornan

 

Superdad beat me to it.

BTW, it's always best to completely remove the charger, whether SMPS, or a Linear PSU, while playing music, unless you are using a supply like the soon to be released Uptone Ultracap supply which according to it's designer John Swenson, completely isolates the supply from the mains, However, it can't stop crap getting back into the A.C. Mains sewer from an SMPS plugpack, and to a far lesser extent from a well designed Linear PSU.

 

 

That seems highly unlikely, even if you are using unfiltered rectified D.C .

A typical SMPS has a reasonably low ripple output and the high equivalent capacitance of the battery itself should take care of that very small residual, just as a large value low ESR electrolytic capacitor at it's output would.

 

 

 

Alex K.

 

Thanks Alex K!

I always play music unconnected to the mains with my uPower and charge when ever not listening to music to save the battery cycles. KingRex uPower shuts of the charging when the battery is fully charged so I do not need to monitoring it.

 

A new morning and I had to take a new listen to my externally grounded battery. I am so happy I thought of this and did it all though I could'nt find anyone else with this idea online. Passengers album "Whispers" sounds better than ever with tons of depth and details...and last but not least dig out the music soul and gives my shivers of joy. My Aurelic Aries Mini is also grounded via the Spdif output BTW...so the battery is not the only thing grounded and play a part of this improvement as well of course. I think I will have start saving for another Minimus and two Eartha cables. I want to ground my router and my coming 16,8v battery supply for my Aries Mini as well.

 

I guess the LPS for improving battery cell performance is a dead-end...but I am happy I asked. Thanks!

 

/Micael

[Cornan]

Here is some pictures of my rig if someone is interested to see how the setup is done!

 

 

 

[Superdad]

Here is some pictures of my rig if someone is interested to see how the setup is done!

 

Nice set-up Cornan! That ceramic tile looks like just what we just remodeled our guest bathroom with.

[Cornan]

Nice set-up Cornan! That ceramic tile looks like just what we just remodeled our guest bathroom with.

Thanks Alex! *Haha* no that is made of plastic and is a wireless charger for my 7" Android tablet that I use to control my music (BubbleDS Next control point). I love that charger!

[Cornan]

Here is another picture that might make it more clear how my little audio corner looks like! ?

 

[Cornan]

@Alex It just occured to me that you ment the grey Italian tiles under my Aries Mini and Pioneer u-05. These were left overs from our bathroom renovation. We had them both on the walls and on the floor with real valnut cabinet. I was extremely happy with that renovation! ?

[Cornan]

It just strucked me that there is actually a good way to find out if the battery cell performance could be affected by incoming DC power quality. In any case I have been interested to try out the iFi DC iPurifier Accessory – DC iPurifier with my uPower pre DC input to my USB Regen. I could actually use it pre DC input of my uPower as well to see if there will be any noticable changes what so ever in the sound unconnected to the main if charged with the DC iPurifier in line. If no change in SQ I will still have use for it in the other end. Could actually be a fun test!

[Cornan]

After some searching I have found a suitable battery pack for USB Regen for USD39,95 Lithium Ion Battery 7.4V 4400mAh

 

 

If you add this T-connector male to DC5.5/2.1mm DC plug for USD3,90 Male Dean (T-connector) to male 2.1mmx5.5mm DC barrel plug cable:Tools & Accessories,Cables - FPV Model: RC Plane, Multicopter, Quadcopter, FPV Goggles, FPV System and all things FPV.

 

 

you should have a pretty good & valuable battery pack for the USB Regen without soldering skills or the hassle of buying from China!

[mink70]

After some searching I have found a suitable battery pack for USB Regen for USD39,95 Lithium Ion Battery 7.4V 4400mAh

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26593[/ATTACH]

 

If you add this T-connector male to DC5.5/2.1mm DC plug for USD3,90 Male Dean (T-connector) to male 2.1mmx5.5mm DC barrel plug cable:Tools & Accessories,Cables - FPV Model: RC Plane, Multicopter, Quadcopter, FPV Goggles, FPV System and all things FPV.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26594[/ATTACH]

 

you should have a pretty good & valuable battery pack for the USB Regen without soldering skills or the hassle of buying from China!

 

Thanks Cornan! How long do you think this pack would hold a charge with the Regen? Can it operate (and sound good) while plugged in to the AC adapter?

[JohnSwenson]

Thanks Cornan! How long do you think this pack would hold a charge with the Regen? Can it operate (and sound good) while plugged in to the AC adapter?

 

If the REGEN is not powering a DAC the REGEN pulls 50mA, with a 4400mAH pack that comes out to 88 hours.

 

The whole purpose of a system like this is that you unplug the charger from the wall (and the REGEN) while in use.

 

John S.

[JohnSwenson]

After some searching I have found a suitable battery pack for USB Regen for USD39,95 Lithium Ion Battery 7.4V 4400mAh

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26593[/ATTACH]

 

If you add this T-connector male to DC5.5/2.1mm DC plug for USD3,90 Male Dean (T-connector) to male 2.1mmx5.5mm DC barrel plug cable:Tools & Accessories,Cables - FPV Model: RC Plane, Multicopter, Quadcopter, FPV Goggles, FPV System and all things FPV.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26594[/ATTACH]

 

you should have a pretty good & valuable battery pack for the USB Regen without soldering skills or the hassle of buying from China!

 

This was the type of Item I was thinking about. It should work well.

 

This should power a REGEN for 88 hours and a microRendu for 22 hours. (DAC does not pull currrent, time goes down if DAC takes current).

 

John S.

[Cornan]

Thanks Cornan! How long do you think this pack would hold a charge with the Regen? Can it operate (and sound good) while plugged in to the AC adapter?

 

You are welcome mink70!

The answer of you questions depends if your DAC is USB powered or not. If your DAC requires USB power I guess this battery will last at around 4-5 hours playtime. On the other hand if your DAC does´nt require USB power it will most likely run for arund 24 hours.

I do not recommend to use any battery connected to mains while playing music. Even if it was isolated from the mains (which it is´nt) like my uPower it still sounds better when unconnected from the mains. However, since this battery have a separate lead for the charger and have a charger with over-voltage protection and under-voltage protection it will be ok to charge it at the same time as powering the USB Regen. You should however understand that the cut-off voltage on this battery pack is set to 5,5V which means that when the battery reaches 5,5v the DC power is cut-off. If you have a USB powered DAC you´ll need to ask @Superdad if the voltage will be enough...otherwise you´ll need to make sure to stop listening and charge it before it cuts off. Hope that helps!

[mink70]

This was the type of Item I was thinking about. It should work well.

 

This should power a REGEN for 88 hours and a microRendu for 22 hours. (DAC does not pull currrent, time goes down if DAC takes current).

 

John S.

 

Thanks Cornan and John! I really appreciate the links!

 

Since John built the Regen, I'm going to rely on his more optimistic 88 hour estimate

[Cornan]

Thanks Cornan and John! I really appreciate the links!

 

Since John built the Regen, I'm going to rely on his more optimistic 88 hour estimate

 

You are welcome! Yes, of course you must trust JS! I was just extremely modest with my estimation...afraid to give you too high hopes! Anyway, here is a handy tool if you want to calculate the battery life yourself Battery Life Calculator | DigiKey Electronics

[sandyk]

However, since this battery have a separate lead for the charger and have a charger with over-voltage protection and under-voltage protection it will be ok to charge it at the same time as powering the USB Regen.

 

No, it won't be O.K. for best results.

The USB Regen should be if possible, powered from a source that has no connection to the A.C. mains, and hence some degree of an earth loop. John has already stated that the power source should be unplugged from the battery when playing.

 

The whole purpose of a system like this is that you unplug the charger from the wall (and the REGEN) while in use.

[Cornan]

No, it won't be O.K. for best results.

The USB Regen should be if possible, powered from a source that has no connection to the A.C. mains, and hence some degree of an earth loop. John has already stated that the power source should be unplugged from the battery when playing.

That is what I wrote in my reply as well. This part of the reply is just me explaining that it is safe to charge while the USB Regen is connected.