Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter & USB DACs

[BilboAlaska]

I am confused about what lightening/USB2 is. Is the USB female?

I used an apple lightening/USB adaptor that is female to suit the Dragonfly. Not USB2. I think the one I used was intended to import photos. 

 

[darascal]

No, USB2 is just an older protocol than USB3. There is a adaptor Apple sells that is lightening-to-USB that does not allow simultaneous charging of the phone, as the lightening-to-USB3 adaptor does:

 

http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter?fnode=091953b48656bed529b13aa7299c71f24b2a33dd77b821609adfe96d36a975a082e356424822c16d5505a74c8f9a21f8b689ed2c5201ad31e696e3f9f3da7549ecb0046f4bb580b201123af96e07cf5c41bb281bc88c2b896256e5dd1a207117

[BilboAlaska]

Oh yes, that is why I just switched to the USB3, which is cool. The other one did work fine except for not having the charging port. I am using a new Dragonfly Red. I gave my awesome Herus away.

 

 

[darascal]

For my birthday Monday, I got an iPhone 7 + Dragonfly Red + USB/Lightening adaptor (USB2 version). One of the first things I noticed was clicks/pops in the music. Apparently this is not a problem with iPhone 6 or other phones. Heading back to Apple store.

[BilboAlaska]

It will be fun. The Red is very good and $150 less than the Herus.

 

[darascal]

Update makes to Lightning to USB 3 makes sound quality worse with DragonFly B/R?

 

I just exchanged my Lightning to USB Camera adaptor for the Lightning to USB 3 version.

 

Good news is that that pops & clicks I heard in the USB2 version with my DragonFly Red seem to be gone. SQ is good. (And of course, I'm able to charge my phone - nice!)

 

But as soon as I plugged in the new adapter, it prompted me for an update. Immediately I recalled reading somewhere (I think on Head-Fi, but I couldn't find the post) that the update made SQ worse with DragonFly B/R. 

 

Can anyone either confirm/deny the veracity of such a claim?

 

Thanks for starting this post - nifty device.

[Donzauker]

When I plugged the adapter for the first time I made the update as required. To me my Dragonfly red works fine... (iPhone 5S with iOS 9)

[darascal]

Thanks Donzauker.

 

The posts I read were regarding sound quality before and after the update, with a few people reporting the sound seemed less bright and and full after the update.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/805832/new-dragonfly-black-and-red-discussion/2940

[BilboAlaska]

My Dragon Red sounds good both from the iPad and the iMac. 

I did the upgrade on the Lightening/USB3. I did not notice any change in sound. 

 

I am baffled by the color code on the DragonflyRed. On the Mac it is pink. That must be what they call magenta, or highest. That is anything from youtube to Tidal HiFi Master. 

On iPad it is always green, or the lowest. Tidal on HiFi or Hi. The iPad sounds much better with Tidal than youtube in spite of the same color.

So why does the iPad not reach magenta but stay green?  

[darascal]

Check your MIDI settings - probably you iMac is set to 96k hz (magenta). I'm not sure what the max sample rate of the iPad is - might be 44.1k (green).

 

I use Audirvana +, which overrides system settings & changes sample rates based on the sample rate of the file. If I set my sample rate to 96k in MIDI, and Audirvana plays a 44.1 file, Dragonfly changes from magenta to green.

 

Btw, if you have not already experimented with alternate music players (i.e., other than iTunes), you owe it to yourself to give them a try. The Dragonfly will easily reveal the differences in sound quality.

[BilboAlaska]

Hi darascal. I have never used iTunes or any other music software but Tidal. 

I can't find MIDI any way in the iPad to change the sound. iPad iOS does not have the features of the Mac OS.

I should have looked at the color on the Dragonfly before updating the lightening/USB3. It popped up as soon as i first plugged it in. The old apple lightening/USB also plays the Dragonfly on green too. 

 

I guess I have to go get a new USB3 and see if it is different without update. Or go back to the Resonessence Herus DAC. I don't remember if has a color output display. 

 

[Donzauker]

Hi all.

About the colors...

I see the red only at the very first plug-in and the DFR turns on then the light turns immediately to the last color the DFR have used before (green or pink/magenta).

About output frequencies: for iMac it depends on its age, mine works at 96kHz but the newest ones works up to 192 kHz (and you have to set the output from the MIDI audio config.). I saw that while playing, iMac sets the output as the same of the bitrate of the file you're playing. (if it plays at 44.1kHz is sets at 44.1kHz output).

iPhone 5s and iPad Air have max output at 48kHz.

Usually I use Vox app as player that shows exactly the output at which is working and infact for 44.1kHz DFR is green or pink/magenta when it works at 96kHz.

[BilboAlaska]

Donzauker

"About the colors...

I see the red only at the very first plug-in and the DFR turns on then the light turns immediately to the last color the DFR have used before (green or pink/magenta)...iPhone 5s and iPad Air have max output at 48kHz."

 

Thanks Donzauker. My DFR does not go to the last color used before. On the iMac it goes to magenta and on the iPad it goes to green. Back and forth new color depending on computer. Both are new. The iPad is only 1 month old, not an "iPod Air", just plain iPad.

So are you saying that the iPad just does not play any higher than green? I see no way to adjust it except within Tidal. That is a surprise that iPads don't play the same bit quality as the iMac.

[Donzauker]

Well, I suppose starting color isn't important.

Do you know the quality of file are you playing exactly?

Have you played the same file on the Mac and on the iPad?

iPad can play higher than green otherwise it means that sound performances on new models are lower than the old ones (it would be absurd).

 

If the light is magenta DFR "feels" an HI-RES file (at least 96kHZ), if it's green it "feels" an mp3 or a HQ file (CD quality 44.1 kHz).

 

 

 

[BilboAlaska]

Thanks, Donzauker.

I visited my Mac dealer who showed me on the Apple website that my newest model iPad Pro 9.7" plays only 20 to 20,000Hz. It must be right unless we are reading it wrong.

From the Apple Website: 

• Frequency response: 20Hz to 20,000Hz
• Audio formats supported: AAC (8 to 320 Kbps), Protected AAC (from iTunes Store), HE-AAC, MP3 (8 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Dolby Digital (AC-3), Dolby Digital Plus (E-AC-3), Audible (formats 2, 3, 4, Audible Enhanced Audio, AAX, and AAX+), Apple Lossless, AIFF, and WAV
• User-configurable maximum volume limit

I am playing Tidal on it's highest setting which is magenta on the iMac so it should be the same on the iPad. 

Personally I don't know a bit from a bite, flack from flan. 

[BilboAlaska]

So nobody is surprised, or disputes that the iPad Pro is only 20,000hz. That means nobody should get magenta with the DFR on an iPad Pro?

 

[Gonzbull]

On 4/5/2017 at 9:09 AM, BilboAlaska said:

Thanks, Donzauker.

I visited my Mac dealer who showed me on the Apple website that my newest model iPad Pro 9.7" plays only 20 to 20,000Hz. It must be right unless we are reading it wrong.

From the Apple Website: 

• Frequency response: 20Hz to 20,000Hz
• Audio formats supported: AAC (8 to 320 Kbps), Protected AAC (from iTunes Store), HE-AAC, MP3 (8 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Dolby Digital (AC-3), Dolby Digital Plus (E-AC-3), Audible (formats 2, 3, 4, Audible Enhanced Audio, AAX, and AAX+), Apple Lossless, AIFF, and WAV
• User-configurable maximum volume limit

I am playing Tidal on it's highest setting which is magenta on the iMac so it should be the same on the iPad. 

Personally I don't know a bit from a bite, flack from flan. 

What your talking about is frequency response. Not sample rate. 

Sample rate goes from 44.1 to 192 kHz. The colours on the Dragonfly relate to these different rates. 

[Donzauker]

Yep....

you have to verify which sampling rate output your iPad support.

sure it must be 48kHz or more.

 

[miguelito]

9 minutes ago, Donzauker said:

Yep....

you have to verify which sampling rate output your iPad support.

sure it must be 48kHz or more.

 

TIDAL on the iPad will not support anything other than 44KHz (maybe 48KHz in the case of MQA files). TIDAL DOES NOT stream anything over 48KHz, and since there is no software unfolding in iOS at the moment, that's what you will get. If you connect an MQA capable DAC to the USB output, the DAC could decode the MQA stream, but I am not sure if this actually is available yet in iOS (TIDAL on iOS might be trimming off the 8 bits that carry MQA encoding).

[BilboAlaska]

Thanks so much to clear up my confusion.

 

I don't see where Apple tells us what the sample rates are available but I assume now that the new iPad Pro will always show the green light. Everyone from Tidal to Dragonfly is talking rates except the iPad and iMac. 

 

[Donzauker]

Maybe I misled about this.

iPad 3.5 socket (iPad internal DAC) have a max bit rate of 48kHz (you use it to plug the headphones directly to it).

When you use the DFR this is connected via lightning port and the bitrate depends only by it (max 96kHz).

To see magenta on DFR you have to: play or stream a music file that has a sampling rate of 96kHz or more , an app that play it properly (not iTunes) and in the end the suitable DAC ( example DFR is ok) to support the bitrate of the file you're playing.

I don't know much about Tidal but maybe on the Mac you can stream or play files at high bit rate to see the pink light on DFR, while iPad can't do this and the max bitrate remains 44.1 kHz (green light).

Nevermind about freq. response that imperatively must be from 20 to 20k Hz!!!

 

[BilboAlaska]

That makes sense. Apple would be talking about their headphone port and we are talking about USB Dacs.

[miguelito]

14 minutes ago, BilboAlaska said:

I don't see where Apple tells us what the sample rates are available but I assume now that the new iPad Pro will always show the green light. Everyone from Tidal to Dragonfly is talking rates except the iPad and iMac.

It's actually very simple:

 

If you use the lightning audio interface, then the output is limited to 24 bit/48KHz max. Also true for Bluetooth connections. This is a design decision made by Apple. Connections that use the lightning audio interface are the Apple adapter dongle (to 3.5mm jack), the Apple earbuds, Audeze's lightning cable, etc.

 

If you use the lightning to USB adapter, you're NOT using the lightning audio interface but the data interface to the iOS device. In this case, if you use an appropriate player (*), you will be able to get higher rates out. In my case I use the Dragonfly Red with the lightning to USB3 adapter (the lightning to USB adapter, which is smaller, produced clicks and pops - a known bug in the adapter it seems).

 

(*) Eg: the Onkyo HF Player - which I highly recommend. This player supports upsampling, and files up to 24/192 and DSD64 if not higher.

[miguelito]

20 minutes ago, Donzauker said:

I don't know much about Tidal but maybe on the Mac you can stream or play files at high bit rate to see the pink light on DFR, while iPad can't do this and the max bitrate remains 44.1 kHz (green light).

The Mac or PC native TIDAL apps can "unfold" MQA files resulting in a 2x rate file off of the 44 or 48 KHz streamed file. At the moment no iOS/Android app can unfold the MQA encoding so there's absolutely no way to get TIDAL to stream out a file of higher than 48KHz rate out of an iOS or Android device.

[BilboAlaska]

I have to say on my recent 6 weeks traveling in Thailand with the new iPad Pro and Herus Dac to headphones the music sounded very good. I would say the headphones being the weakest linc because I didn't carry big high end cans. http://www.resonessencelabs.com/shop/herus/

I gave it to my bro in law and replaced it with the DF Red.  

 

At the same time I realized that a portable music player would be more convenient. I am considering the Onkyo DPX1, Astel &Kern, Sony, etc. but that is another forum thread. http://www.onkyousa.com/Products/model.php?m=DP-X1&class=Portable&source=prodClass

 

I just downloaded the Onkyo HF Player app.

 

I appreciate the members here patience with the digitally ignorant. Thanks.