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Advice on a new 256 or 512 DSD DAC


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I have performed some mods and tweaks to this DAC and it absolutely shines on classical music. Woodwinds/strings sounds great. (I should know as I have played in Symphony Orchestras for the past 35 years) I am currently upsampling everything to DSD128 via HQPlayer and when a fellow Gustard owner sends me the right driver on a flash drive, I will be soon listening to DSD256.

 

Always interesting to hear that kind of feedback for timbral accuracy and transient reproduction from people who actually play.

 

There's a new USB card from dyinhk which apparently can do DSD512 and I2S. I don't know if anyone has tried it with the Gustard yet.

 

I think the Gustard and the possible tweaks to it make it one of the best value propositions for high-rate DSD currently.

 

The "level 1" tweaks by Ric which were implemented by Quadman himself on his own are rather easy to do if you're used to DIY. Some additional ones may be a little more intricate but I wouldn't classify either as "a lot of major tweaking" as hifial seems to imply.

 

For more info, including a lot of good end-user DIY feedback by Quadman, look for the relevant Gustard Tweaks thread over at WBF. It's quite cool he shares his experience doing the mods and his impressions of the results. Quite cool of Ric to share his info as well.

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Always interesting to hear that kind of feedback for timbral accuracy and transient reproduction from people who actually play.

 

There's a new USB card from dyinhk which apparently can do DSD512 and I2S. I don't know if anyone has tried it with the Gustard yet.

 

I think the Gustard and the possible tweaks to it make it one of the best value propositions for high-rate DSD currently.

 

The "level 1" tweaks by Ric which were implemented by Quadman himself on his own are rather easy to do if you're used to DIY. Some additional ones may be a little more intricate but I wouldn't classify either as "a lot of major tweaking" as hifial seems to imply.

 

For more info, including a lot of good end-user DIY feedback by Quadman, look for the relevant Gustard Tweaks thread over at WBF. It's quite cool he shares his experience doing the mods and his impressions of the results. Quite cool of Ric to share his info as well.

 

My intent was aimed at people that have not done and/or are not comfortable doing tweaking. And that to get the most you can there are many such tweaks that you can do to the Gustard. Hence the "a lot of major tweaking". In hindsight I could have explained myself better. Sorry for any confusion/misunderstanding.

 

Also I agree (and said so) that the Gustard PUNCHES way above its price point, especially when you tweak it.

 

Another reason I crossed the Gustard off the list is out of the box it does not do DSD512 through USB. From the original poster I got the impression that he wanted to use USB.

 

IMHO any DAC that can do DSD512 is the one to consider. Then go by budget. And then try to listen and compare if one can.

Ambassador for Sound Galleries Monaco and Taiko Audio The Netherlands 

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Sound Galleries SGM 2015 Music Server>ROON-all rates up-sampled to DSD512 by HQ Player>Sablon Reserva 2017 USB>T+A DAC 8 DSD>Merrill Audio Veritas Ncore NC1200 Mono Amps>B&W 802D>High Fidelity Cables Interconnect, Speaker & Power Cords for Amps & SGM & T+A>Power Conditioning High Fidelity MC-6 Hemisphere>T+A & Hemisphere supported by Stillpoints Ultra Mini - B&W 802D & Veritas supported by Stillpoints Ultra SS>All sitting on IKEA Aptitlig bamboo butcher blocks - Taiko Audio Setchi active grounding on SGM & T+A

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Always interesting to hear that kind of feedback for timbral accuracy and transient reproduction from people who actually play.

 

There's a new USB card from dyinhk which apparently can do DSD512 and I2S. I don't know if anyone has tried it with the Gustard yet.

 

I think the Gustard and the possible tweaks to it make it one of the best value propositions for high-rate DSD currently.

 

The "level 1" tweaks by Ric which were implemented by Quadman himself on his own are rather easy to do if you're used to DIY. Some additional ones may be a little more intricate but I wouldn't classify either as "a lot of major tweaking" as hifial seems to imply.

 

For more info, including a lot of good end-user DIY feedback by Quadman, look for the relevant Gustard Tweaks thread over at WBF. It's quite cool he shares his experience doing the mods and his impressions of the results. Quite cool of Ric to share his info as well.

Isnt the Gustard a Sabre Dac?

 

If so, then who knows what they do to the DSD signal fed to it.

 

I have not heard it and so cant comment definitively, but IMHO, that would disqualify it as a "primo" Dac for high rate DSD playback. High rate DSD is not a sweepspot for a Sabre chip Dac.

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DSD512 is indeed a nice sweetspot for SABRE chips. The Fore Audio DaisY1 excels there (review hint).

 

Sorry but I never heard that Sabre chips had DSD512 as sweet spot. As a matter of fact, Ess Tech has never officially declared support for it.

Furthermore, the Fore Audio DaisY1 DAC, as per review, does up to DSD256.

Usually, the very few Sabre DACs that declare support for DSD512 are rather unstable at that resolution.

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Well, MY review will say otherwise. Believe who you will. DSD512 is sublime, and quite stable, otherwise I wouldn't make it a headline in my review; especially sublime with the DaisY1 (minimal but SABRE-calming effect) tube buffer and Bugle Boys. There, that's the essence of my review. :)

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@YashN Thank you for the kind words. I am certainly not an electronics "guy" no EE or anything close. Just someone with some soldering skills and the bravado to go forward, after extensive research, and do what other people have suggested. I recently installed a custom solid silver coax cable that I made into the Gustards I have here. My first attempt on my friends I thought went well until I directly compared to my L1 dac with Ric's Copper coax. The stage was slightly smaller and images lacked that razor focus that my L1 dac had. This is nothing you would notice without comparison to another similar dac. S I reversed the cables direction and WOW a really nice change for the better. The stage became bigger images got that razor 3D focus and the transparency went up a few notches, now punching above my L1 dac with copper coax. Who would have thought a 6.25" solid silver wire carrying a digital signal would be that directional. I sure didn't. Last night I soldered one into mine and got lucky on direction the first time. Yep nice improvement same as noted with my friends.

 

Tuesday I ordered the DSD512 card from DIYinHK and I plan on installing that internally inside the dac, removing the existing the USB card and wiring directly to the PCIe slot as @SimonBromely has done on his X20 with his Wave I/O card. I will power the card from an external linear PSU and if lucky will see if the dac can really do DSD512. If it can, based on my experience, and as reported on forums from other people DSD256>DSD128>DSD64, I then expect DSD512>DSD256. Regardless if the Dac cannot play DSD512, reports from Simon and Ric indicate that the dac sounds significantly better by removing the stock USB card. Simon now uses his Wave I/O card (as input) and Ric runs Coax in and only 16/44 PCM redbook play back. I will come out ahead just by getting that noisy card out of the way.

 

I will report on those changes in a Gustard thread. A Gustard x20u with Ric's level 1 mods is $1300 ($870 dac + $425 mod) plus shipping to and from him. With the stock driver you get DSD128, and with a few other drivers you can get DSD256 and I'll stand by my words other than the T&A mentioned above I don't think any other dac will sound better than this X20u anywhere near this price point.

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Well, MY review will say otherwise. Believe who you will. DSD512 is sublime, and quite stable, otherwise I wouldn't make it a headline in my review; especially sublime with the DaisY1 (minimal but SABRE-calming effect) tube buffer and Bugle Boys. There, that's the essence of my review. :)

 

If it can do DSD512 in a stable way, I am glad for Fore.

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Isnt the Gustard a Sabre Dac?

 

If so, then who knows what they do to the DSD signal fed to it.

 

I have not heard it and so cant comment definitively, but IMHO, that would disqualify it as a "primo" Dac for high rate DSD playback. High rate DSD is not a sweepspot for a Sabre chip Dac.

 

With all due respect if you have not heard it then you should not comment on it at all. Look...I am not taking anything away from the Lampizator GG or the T+A DAC8. I will not comment on those as I have not heard them. However, I HAVE heard the Gustard X20U and to be perfectly frank, I could give a rat's behind what chip is under the hood. After 35 years of playing in the Academy of Music in Philadelphia, Carnegie Hall in New York, Severance Hall in Cleveland and other venues, when I hear the accurate yet beautiful tone and timbre of acoustical instruments, I really don't care if I pop the hood to see two rubber bands and some popsicle sticks.

 

I am waiting with bated breath to see how quadman's new DSD512 card performs.

 

BTW, I also have heard the Fore Audio DaisY1 at Ted_b's place and it sounds very very good indeed!

 

My apologies to the original poster.

 

Regards,

 

Randy

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Where can i buy T+A DAC8 DSD online?

It seems not available in Thailand.

DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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With all due respect if you have not heard it then you should not comment on it at all. Look...I am not taking anything away from the Lampizator GG or the T+A DAC8. I will not comment on those as I have not heard them. However, I HAVE heard the Gustard X20U and to be perfectly frank, I could give a rat's behind what chip is under the hood. After 35 years of playing in the Academy of Music in Philadelphia, Carnegie Hall in New York, Severance Hall in Cleveland and other venues, when I hear the accurate yet beautiful tone and timbre of acoustical instruments, I really don't care if I pop the hood to see two rubber bands and some popsicle sticks.

 

I am waiting with bated breath to see how quadman's new DSD512 card performs.

 

BTW, I also have heard the Fore Audio DaisY1 at Ted_b's place and it sounds very very good indeed!

 

My apologies to the original poster.

 

Regards,

 

Randy

 

Randy, I speak of the philosophy/technology of what goes on inside the Sabre chip with DSD. There is a reason why DSD is handled with kids gloves and a chip is primarily for PCM with DSD as a workaround. A saber chip would not be my first choice for dedicated DSD playback...though it does not mean that it can't sound good....as it clearly can. Just don't think it can be the best it can be. I have heard plenty of chipped DSD and FPGA DSD and none please me like chipless. If you are not DSD crazy like me, its not really a big deal.

 

I wait to see how the new saber chips treat DSD, the 9018 and 9038. They have very different tech again.

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Randy, I speak of the philosophy/technology of what goes on inside the Sabre chip with DSD. There is a reason why DSD is handled with kids gloves and a chip is primarily for PCM with DSD as a workaround. A saber chip would not be my first choice for dedicated DSD playback...though it does not mean that it can't sound good....as it clearly can. Just don't think it can be the best it can be. I have heard plenty of chipped DSD and FPGA DSD and none please me like chipless. If you are not DSD crazy like me, its not really a big deal.

 

I wait to see how the new saber chips treat DSD, the 9018 and 9038. They have very different tech again.

 

Norman-

 

Actually, the Gustard uses 2 of the 9018 Sabre chips. I copied the specs and have listed them below... In reading the below specs, I do find it interesting that it does state that via USB it only supports up to DSD128. I am currently using a Thesycon driver that allows DSD256 via USB (which sounds very good). Here is another copied blurb from Gustard...

 

"USB 2.0 asynchronous interface can playback 1BIT / 2.8224MHz or 5.6448MHz DSD digital signal sampling rate. That is supported DSD64 and DSD128. Coaxial BNC fiber AES / EBU support DOP64, IIS support DSD64 128 256 512."

 

X20 chip uses two main ESS Technology ES9018 Sabre Reference 32bit chip, with XMOS 32bit / 500MIPS performance digital signal processing unit.

[h=1]Product Features:[/h]• DAC-X20 core chip uses two ES9018, left and right channels for each one.

• the first use of adaptive technology and asynchronous master clock master clock technology, two clock mode can be freely selected.

• Full interface supports DSD decoding. USB support DSD hardware solution, Coaxial Optical AES / EBU support DOP decoding, which can be accessed several broadcast SACD listening to music. Full interface supports 24Bit 192khz (USB 32B 384K).

• using CPLD programmable logic device. MESNAC ES9018.

• 3-speed gain, volume can be adjusted, a total of 100 stalls adjustable volume attenuation from 0 to -99DB.

• USB sub card using XMOS program, PCM highest support 32B 384khz, DSD up to DSD128.

• six kinds of input methods: IIS fiber `BNC coaxial port` AES / EBU`USB, through the key switch.

• Adopt TFT LCD display, adjustable contrast

• power supply with two O-type transformers, digital and analog independent power supply, and the use of discrete components regulation.

• Fully balanced analog line discrete components. Unbalanced RCA output simultaneously.

 

Regards,

 

Randy

 

LLLL

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Randy

 

I speak of the INNER workings of the saber chip wrt DSD. Its not a knock on the Gustard, which may be as well implemented as any Sabre Dac out there, rather the limitations of the chip itself. I am pretty sure DSD is not processed natively inside the ESS chip in 1 bit format. They do some kind of state variable manipulation AFAIK and the rest is a black box.

 

So yes, it can sound good, but for someone like the OP chasing SoTA DSD, it would not be a natural first choice.That and that alone was my point. I hope I made myself clear now.

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So yes, it can sound good, but for someone like the OP chasing SoTA DSD, it would not be a natural first choice.That and that alone was my point. I hope I made myself clear now.

 

SoTA DSD? He is asking for a good sounding DSD256 and/or 512 DAC, and finds the T+A slightly outside his budget. So we began discussing compromises, as that is what you do when discussing within someone's budget (i.e lower price than T+A). If the guy can afford the T+A this thread should be closed, as we all know that end of the budget is clearly T+A. ?? What am I missing here?

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Where can i buy T+A DAC8 DSD online?

It seems not available in Thailand.

 

Did you check the T+A web site

 

ASIA

 

It lists a dealer in Thailand and some surrounding countries.

 

Otherwise try Rutherford Audio in the USA and see if they can/will ship to you.

 

Rutherford Audio - The home of High End Luxury Audio

 

Good luck.

Ambassador for Sound Galleries Monaco and Taiko Audio The Netherlands 

Sound Test USA

[email protected]

 

Sound Galleries SGM 2015 Music Server>ROON-all rates up-sampled to DSD512 by HQ Player>Sablon Reserva 2017 USB>T+A DAC 8 DSD>Merrill Audio Veritas Ncore NC1200 Mono Amps>B&W 802D>High Fidelity Cables Interconnect, Speaker & Power Cords for Amps & SGM & T+A>Power Conditioning High Fidelity MC-6 Hemisphere>T+A & Hemisphere supported by Stillpoints Ultra Mini - B&W 802D & Veritas supported by Stillpoints Ultra SS>All sitting on IKEA Aptitlig bamboo butcher blocks - Taiko Audio Setchi active grounding on SGM & T+A

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Did you check the T+A web site

 

ASIA

 

It lists a dealer in Thailand and some surrounding countries.

 

Otherwise try Rutherford Audio in the USA and see if they can/will ship to you.

 

Rutherford Audio - The home of High End Luxury Audio

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you so much. ^^

DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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SoTA DSD? He is asking for a good sounding DSD256 and/or 512 DAC, and finds the T+A slightly outside his budget. So we began discussing compromises, as that is what you do when discussing within someone's budget (i.e lower price than T+A). If the guy can afford the T+A this thread should be closed, as we all know that end of the budget is clearly T+A. ?? What am I missing here?

Dépends on one's interpretation:

"I’m looking to purchase a new DAC as the older Lite Audio DAC-83 has developed an issue and return / repair to China isn’t, I believe, merited. My thinking is to jump into the world of DSD – using HQ Player to up-sample PCM to 256 / 512 DSD. The set-up will involve a dedicated Roon / HQ Player server specified to support the conversion with a Windows-based NAA that will connect to the DAC via USB or, if supported, i2S. (Might re-image NAA as Linux if I’m bold.)

 

So, with advice from the HQ Player thread, I’ve identified the T+A DAC 8 DSD as an option for true discrete 1-bit chip-less conversion which is at the upper limit of the budget."

 

If you really want to fully experiment with DSD at the limits, to my mind it must be a 1 bit solution...

Just having DSD playback is not the same as experiencing the best that DSD has to offer.

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