2016 Remasters of The Doobie Brothers?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Has anyone heard these yet?

 

 

http://www.hdtracks.com/music/artist/view/id/4104/

 

[KDinsmore]

I'm interested too. This came out of nowhere. I own Captain and Me from HDT which was a while back and it is quite good. Here's hoping.

[KDinsmore]

OK. I'll be the sacrificial lamb here. Downloading Minute by Minute 24/192 from Pono right now. BTW all these are 19.95 at Pono.

[KDinsmore]

oobar2000 1.3.9 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1

log date: 2016-05-13 14:40:23

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: The Doobie Brothers / Minute By Minute

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DR Peak RMS Duration Track

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DR11 -0.10 dB -14.15 dB 4:01 01-Here To Love You (2016 Remastered)

DR11 -0.10 dB -13.58 dB 3:46 02-What A Fool Believes (2016 Remastered)

DR11 -0.10 dB -13.98 dB 3:28 03-Minute By Minute (2016 Remastered)

DR12 -0.10 dB -13.77 dB 3:50 04-Dependin' On You (2016 Remastered)

DR11 -0.10 dB -13.91 dB 3:26 05-Don't Stop To Watch The Wheels (2016 Remastered)

DR12 -0.10 dB -14.19 dB 3:18 06-Open Your Eyes (2016 Remastered)

DR11 -0.10 dB -13.31 dB 2:43 07-Sweet Feelin' (2016 Remastered)

DR14 -0.10 dB -15.61 dB 3:26 08-Steamer Lane Breakdown (2016 Remastered)

DR11 -0.10 dB -12.89 dB 3:31 09-You Never Change (2016 Remastered)

DR12 -0.10 dB -13.96 dB 5:18 10-How Do The Fools Survive? (2016 Remastered)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Number of tracks: 10

Official DR value: DR12

 

Samplerate: 192000 Hz

Channels: 2

Bits per sample: 24

Bitrate: 9220 kbps

Codec: FLAC

[KDinsmore]

I gave this a quick listen and it is pretty good. I'll have a proper session later.

[One and a half]

I have the five SACD from Mobile Fidelity to compare with the downloads, but not adventurous any more to do so. Mobile Fidelity/Music Direct still have the SACD of The Doobie Brothers left, however the alarm bells are ringing.

 

Vices - Awaiting restamping

The Captain and Me - 4-6 weeks

Stampede, Toulouse St, Takin' it to the streets are in stock for now.

 

Prices : If the price is over $20 for the download, at least the disc has liner notes and it's in DSD. Still better off with Vinyl for now for stock. Also try ImportCDs, their prices are quite good.

 

I downloaded "The Doobie Brothers" this morning, hey it's well done for a Rhino release. I can't compare to a Mofi, since this wasn't released. I should get "Livin' on the Fault Line" as a download, since this didn't make it to Mofi either and the CD is from the early 90's. Carly Simon and Michael McDonald's co written effort on "You Belong to Me" is worthwhile the hires effort to download for that song alone.

[KDinsmore]

Plwase let me know how Fault Line is when you buy. Since I playback from file the SACD format is a pain to convert and I have someone else do that for me. I wish MoFi and AF etc. would make available all their releases for download.

[One and a half]

Here are the Musicscope data for Livin' on the Fault Line, "You belong to Me". I don't have access to Foobar's measurement system to compare.

 

Redbook

 

Max. M-Loudness: -10.7 dB

Max. S-Loudness: -14.3 dB

Integrated Loudness: -17.4 dB

Loudness Range: 7.4 dB

PLR Avg.: 7.5 dB

 

 

96/24

 

Max. M-Loudness: -6.6 dB

Max. S-Loudness: -9.9 dB

Integrated Loudness: -12.9 dB

Loudness Range: 6.9 dB

PLR Avg.: 7.2 dB

 

 

 

The redbook has better dynamics and plenty of air around the peaks. The hires is volume is cranked up, and still has a worse LRA. I can manage the same effort by turning up the pre-amp's volume control, it's not that difficult, don't need the studio to do this for me.

 

Is the hires version worth the download? Well.....no. Bought from Acoustic Sounds. Kinda pi$$ed that these results aren't published BEFORE you buy. Then again, no one will buy them will they if previous versions are better. Artistic content huh, BS. It's for these reasons, I only buy the album due to availability at 96/24 only. I will buy the DSD if it's native, but not re-created in the studio from PCM master, HQPlayer can encode on the fly to DSD128 which happens at the moment for playback.

 

Still enjoy the music though, the redbook

[KDinsmore]

Bummer. The Edsel two-fers on CD are high DR and available for little $$ on Discogs.

Again Pono has these downloads for $19.95 in 24/192. I'm liking Pono more and more and have purchased an number of downloads from them for much less than the competition.

On the Minute by Minute 24/192 download "How do the fools survive?" piano intro is spectacular.

[bmoura]

I will buy the DSD if it's native, but not re-created in the studio from PCM master, HQPlayer can encode on the fly to DSD128 which happens at the moment for playback.

 

And the Mobile Fidelity SACDs of the Doobie Brothers are very good. Definitely worth a listen and purchase.

[davide256]

Thanks for testing, and saving us all wasted money

[mav52]

I'm staying with the albums they just sound so much better, nothing like wasting $$ on these downloads, I wish I could give them back. Now if HD tracks would add the Doobie Brothers 'World Gone Crazy and not mess with the DR, I would give that download a try.

[hdlistener]

And the Mobile Fidelity SACDs of the Doobie Brothers are very good. Definitely worth a listen and purchase.

I think the Mofi of Toulouse Street is lifeless, as are some other SACDs I've purchased by them lately. DR might be better on the SACDs but overall the HD downloads are mastered much better, IMO.

[bmoura]

I think the Mofi of Toulouse Street is lifeless, as are some other SACDs I've purchased by them lately. DR might be better on the SACDs but overall the HD downloads are mastered much better, IMO.

 

On my Portable Player (Questyle Q1PR) and music system at home, the detail from the MoFi Toulouse Street SACD is excellent. Highly recommended.

[hdlistener]

On my Portable Player (Questyle Q1PR) and music system at home, the detail from the MoFi Toulouse Street SACD is excellent. Highly recommended.

I know the MoFi SACDs sound good compared to the redbook versions, but I would be really surprised if you A/B'd the HDTracks version of this album with the MoFi and found you preferred the overall sound of the MoFi.

[cjf]

There aren't too many things about Audio that piss me off but I must say the one thing that angers me more than anything is all these Artists re-releasing there lifes work with a subpar level of SQ and then having that "new sound" be the one that carries the flag of your previous fame into the future.

 

I get that people need to find a way to eat and provide a roof over their head after they have spent their fortunes but if your going to go thru the effort and expense to redu your previous work than is it really that much harder to at least make it equal to the sound if the original but better via newer equipment verses butchering and compressing the piss out of it to the point of being unlistenable on anything better than an i-POD.

 

GGGGrrrrrrrr

[jsaliga]

I can't say I am a fan of using waveform images and amplitude statistics for judging how something is going to sound. From the comments in this thread there doesn't seem to be too many people who have actually listened to these remasters. I find the data interesting too, but I don't use it as a primary tool for making buying decisions. I bought the following 2016 remastered titles:

 

Toulouse Street

Stampede

The Captain and Me

What Were Once Vices are Now Habits

 

I'm not a Michael McDonald fan and did not like the direction he took the sound of The Doobie Brothers so I passed on those.

 

I started with Toulouse Street since that is my favorite DB album. I figured if it passed muster and I liked the sound then I would go for the others of interest.

 

The remasters sound fine, IMO, and are better than the MoFi SACDs. They also compare very favorably to the original vinyl pressings and sound better to my ears than the recent Friday Music 180g pressings.

 

As for amplitude statistics here is a comparison from Adobe Auidition CC2015 for the track Jesus is Just Alright from Toulouse Street:

 

This is from the original 1972 Warner vinyl LP, that I captured in 24Bit/192KHz PCM using a PreSonus Studio 192 recording interface and my Nottingham Analogue Space 294 turntable/Lyra Delos MC cartridge...

 

 

 

And here is the 2016 Remaster of the same track.

 

 

The difference in dynamic range is insignificant, mostly because that his how much dynamic range is in the recording on the master tape. I have spot checked a few other tracks on this LP (including quieter acoustic tracks) and the dynamic range is comparable between the LP and 2016 remaster, so the numbers hold up pretty well on all of the tracks on the album.

 

I have not looked at the stats for any other Doobie Brothers releases that I own ( and I think I own just about all of them). But if any of them have considerably higher dynamic range then I would suggest that it was digitally manipulated. Whether it sounds good or not is purely a matter of personal taste.

 

I am quite happy with the 2016 remasters. They sound great, and have saved me a lot of time ripping my original vinyl LPs.

 

--Jerome

[One and a half]

I can't say I am a fan of using waveform images and amplitude statistics for judging how something is going to sound. From the comments in this thread there doesn't seem to be too many people who have actually listened to these remasters.

 

I posted the waveforms and the MusicScope results because the highres version sounded like sh$te and wanted to know why. The loudness compared to the older CD is then fairly obvious, and the DR values put the nail in the coffin. Why would I pay for a louder and a more compressed version of an album which I already have? Burned once.

 

If you find that the Doobie Brothers MFSL SACDs don't sound better than the hires versions, you need a better SACD player.

[jsaliga]

I'm not going to debate this with you. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. Get over it that someone might not see things the same way you do.

 

--Jerome

[One and a half]

I'm not going to debate this with you. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. Get over it that someone might not see things the same way you do.

 

--Jerome

 

Good luck to you too sir.

[jsaliga]

Same to you.

 

Sorry for my stand-offish reluctance. But debating these things -- especially in cases where it is suggested that I need better equipment (which you did say) or that I don't know what I am listening for (which you did not say) -- just isn't how I want to be spending my free time. I don't require others to agree with me and I am not interested in their approval.

 

All I wanted to do here is add a different opinion to the mix.

 

Have a great weekend and enjoy some music. That is what I will be doing.

 

--Jerome

[james45974]

I guess with WB in bed with MQA now there will be the potential to get a another new remaster (buy? stream? download?) of the Doobie Bros recordings!

[bmoura]

If you find that the Doobie Brothers MFSL SACDs don't sound better than the hires versions, you need a better SACD player.

 

I agree that the Doobie Brothers MFSL SACDs are excellent. Both via the SACD player and with a DSD DAC here. Big thumbs up!

[One and a half]

Some good news for a change.

 

Livin' on the fault line, SACD Warner Japan scores a respectable DR12 (according to Jriver's analyser).  This SACD is based on the rubbish 2016 remasters.... hope yet! The SACD sounds very good indeed. The same analyser of the Redbook as above reports DR12.