CD player vs computer sourced music: which has better sound quality?

[sandyk]

The Bricasti is considered top level. What is your fit Dac that outperforms it?

I know there have been multiple updates available for the Bricasti. Each reported as better sounding than a previous update.

 

The main ingredients are the several additional JLH PSU add-on PCBs (shunt regulators with around 1FARAD simulated capacitance and around 4uV noise) , separate transformers and PSU PCBs for both digital and analogue areas, and even a Paul Hynes 3.3V regulator for the 3.3V supply to the input PCB. Its based on a Silicon Chip magazine design , but only goes to 24/96.

It was compared with a friend's modified Bricasti M1 which has the output I.C.s biased into Class A, and which had previously outperformed an unmodified Bricasti M1. This particular DIY DAC was featured as a DIY project in another forum, and several members duplicated my results with their builds, starting out with the basic short form kits initially.

Each modification I made was confirmed by the other members as a further improvement before going further. It didn't get there overnight though.

Regards

Alex

[sandyk]

The question was stated as CD player, not CD source. A CD player is a transport and a dac in one box.

 

The quality of the output from the DAC is determined mainly by how well the front end of the CD player performs.

Contrary to popular belief, there can be marked SQ differences between the digital outputs of various CD/DVD players despite exporting a bit perfect output. An E.E. friend of mine couldn't believe the differences between his well respected older Pioneer CD player and my Oppo 103 when used a a transport a couple of years ago.

He bought an Oppo 103 as a Xmas gift for the family after hearing the differences !

[esldude]

The question was stated as CD player, not CD source. A CD player is a transport and a dac in one box.

That's true. Considering all the difficulty everyone is having I feel as if I asked a 6 th grade question to kindergarteners. At a minimum I am a poor pollster. In the future I will upload files, let the discussion take place and have no polling. Simply getting audiophile's using their ears is so very difficult I should not confuse issues further with polls.

 

Oh the official poll question below which you vote:

Is computer or CD the better quality music source?

[esldude]

As for what I had in mind precisely, you have an excellent DAC in your system. You can connect a CD transport or computer over USB converter. Which one gives higher quality sound? Of course some have the opinion a truly excellent CD player sounds worse as a transport because going digital over an SPDIF connection adds jitter. I can now see leaving it up to the discretion of CA readers is a mistake.

 

Live and learn. Learned among other things the nature, attitude and purpose many newer posters have has changed quite a bit over the last couple years. Not really news, things change such is life.

[Kal Rubinson]

The question was stated as CD player, not CD source. A CD player is a transport and a dac in one box.

Well, with that clarification, I was able to make a choice and I chose "My computer source is my best quality." However, I do not consider this a useful response since, in my configuration, so many things tilt the balance in that direction, most of all my focus on optimizing file playback and my reduced attention to the physical disc player.

[17629]

The quality of the output from the DAC is determined mainly by how well the front end of the CD player performs.

Contrary to popular belief, there can be marked SQ differences between the digital outputs of various CD/DVD players despite exporting a bit perfect output. An E.E. friend of mine couldn't believe the differences between his well respected older Pioneer CD player and my Oppo 103 when used a a transport a couple of years ago.

He bought an Oppo 103 as a Xmas gift for the family after hearing the differences !

 

 

I didn't mean for that post to be anything other than clarification on what a CD player is. I didn't mean to suggest that a transport is more or less important than the dac, or any other component. In fact, I have a Wadia 861SE. If you have an 861 and want to turn it into an SE, you send it to Wadia, pay them $2500 and they install an upgraded transport. Its the only part they touch, and it makes a very nice difference.

 

If your friends old Pioneer is a stable platter unit, it doesn't surprise me when you say the Oppo beat it. They have a really nice look and feel to them, but the SQ just wasn't there.

[17629]

That's true. Considering all the difficulty everyone is having I feel as if I asked a 6 th grade question to kindergarteners. At a minimum I am a poor pollster. In the future I will upload files, let the discussion take place and have no polling. Simply getting audiophile's using their ears is so very difficult I should not confuse issues further with polls.

 

Oh the official poll question below which you vote:

Is computer or CD the better quality music source?

 

 

I understand your argument, but I don't understand what good the poll will do. Personally, I like my CD player better than ripped CD's played from my computer. I can sit someone else in front of my system and they can say the opposite. Both answers are correct. Its just a matter of personal taste.

[sandyk]

I understand your argument, but I don't understand what good the poll will do. Personally, I like my CD player better than ripped CD's played from my computer. I can sit someone else in front of my system and they can say the opposite. Both answers are correct. Its just a matter of personal taste.

 

17629

I would respectfully suggest that your computer side of things is capable of further improvement.

 

Regards

Alex

[17629]

17629

I would respectfully suggest that your computer side of things is capable of further improvement.

 

Regards

Alex

 

 

Anything can be improved upon. Maybe I'll upgrade my PC and like it better than the Wadia by itself, and maybe the person who likes my PC better now will like the Wadia better after the PC upgrade.

[Miska]

My computer is a CD player. The very first HQPlayer versions played only CD's. If I want to listen straight off a silver disc, player is still the same. Just source media changes from HDD to CD.

[bogi]

The question 'if playing from PC or CD player is better' has sense to me only if we assume the same quality of DAC in both cases. So IMO it has no much sense to concentrate to DAC part of the chain.

 

Each media player contains a special purpose computer, but typically it is very limited in comparison with power, capabilities and software of our PCs. CD media persists from historical reasons. Today no one would design something like Redbook standard. We are not living in HW and SW environment of 80's. Playing from computer can overcome many limitations of classical CD player and CD media. When done right, playing from PC has to overtake a classical CD player.

 

Playing from PC can be done on different qualitative levels and the same can be said also about CD players.

[17629]

My computer is a CD player. The very first HQPlayer versions played only CD's. If I want to listen straight off a silver disc, player is still the same. Just source media changes from HDD to CD.

 

Yes, but how many people actually play CD's that way? Maybe as a matter of convenience just to see what's on a disk. But most people, at least here, still use an external DAC making the PC just a transport, optical or hard drive based.

[robocop]

In my case I had a separate Meridian 200 CD transport and Benchmark Dac.

 

My first setup laptop with Foobar, easily beat my CD playback through the Benchmark Dac. I was so amazed I immediately set about ripping my CD's and improving the Computer hardware and audio software to the point where it beats my blueray sound(24/192) from my Cambridge BR player.

 

In relation to money spent its a no brainer to go computer audio. You can get good CD playback but after spending about $10kUS, but whats the point. Like the vinyl turntable it still uses a mechanical device to read the audio. Loading audio and OS into Ram is unbeatable.

 

Robert

[Miska]

Yes, but how many people actually play CD's that way? Maybe as a matter of convenience just to see what's on a disk. But most people, at least here, still use an external DAC making the PC just a transport, optical or hard drive based.

 

I don't have any figures how many... I did it for long time, because single-unit CD players have same technical constraints as many DACs.

 

CD player is just another transport too. Technically it doesn't make difference, other than most CD players have only S/PDIF output but no better interfaces to DACs. Of course some CD players have USB and other inputs allowing to use the built-in DAC with other transports.

 

Whether the DAC is in the same box or outside is irrelevant, quality matters. Best systems commonly have separate boxes for transport and DAC. Of course you can build a PC and a DAC into same chassis too if you like.

 

With the early HQPlayer versions I was using a PCI sound card for output, there were no good quality USB DACs at that point yet. So the PC and DAC ended up being in the same chassis as one box solution. Although I also had S/PDIF output from the PC too and couple of good quality S/PDIF input DACs (designed and built myself).

[davide256]

The outcome today is basically an exercise in market economics; why buy a standalone CD player if a PC does more. Ultimately the two could converge in the audiophile world as a software driven off the shelf MOBO solution should be inferior to a firmware driven built to purpose MOBO solution that can temporarily cache disk read for jitter/error correction. However the convenience of disk storage and electronic isolation of disk read by network streaming may make both approaches obsolete.

[sandyk]

However the convenience of disk storage and electronic isolation of disk read by network streaming may make both approaches obsolete.

 

That's if you believe that you can shut the gate after the horse has bolted, and that the data being exported is in pristine condition.

Given that even powering internal SSDs with very clean and isolated power results in a higher SQ, that seems highly unlikely to be the complete answer.

[gmgraves]

17629

I would respectfully suggest that your computer side of things is capable of further improvement.

 

Regards

Alex

 

+1. Many ripping applications will will go over section of a given disk being read as many times as possible until it gets a perfect sample, free of errors, then it moves on to the next sample. In such a case, the ripped disc should, theoretically, sound better than the disc itself played in real-time. Whether or not this happens in actuality, would be difficult to access and a lot has to do with how well the drive (and associated "front end" electronics) on one's CD player works. I understand some are more prone to producing read errors than are others.

[mansr]

+1. Many ripping applications will will go over section of a given disk being read as many times as possible until it gets a perfect sample, free of errors, then it moves on to the next sample. In such a case, the ripped disc should, theoretically, sound better than the disc itself played in real-time. Whether or not this happens in actuality, would be difficult to access and a lot has to do with how well the drive (and associated "front end" electronics) on one's CD player works. I understand some are more prone to producing read errors than are others.

I once compared a capture of the Toslink output of a PS3 playing a CD to a rip of the same CD. Every last bit was identical. Now this was a CD in good condition, so it's possible a more difficult one would show differences. I should try that some day.

[Paul R]

Unlike other folks, I am quickly coming to the conclusion that the front end, be it CD, disk, NAS, streaming, etc., has less effect on the sound that the DAC does. A really good DAC, expensive or not, can really make a computer or a CD player sound great. In fact, it can make a $49 BRP sound great.

 

There is possibly a lot less to this than we imagine, meaning really good sound is really pretty simple to achieve. High End sound isn't that hard to achieve, and does not require spending big bucks either. Top of the line sound, something hardly any of us have in our homes, requires a custom built sound room with perfect treatment. In which, almost anything will sound better than one could imagine.

 

Especially if it includes human treatments like Scotch and decent beer....

[PopPop]

I have always felt that the DAC is the key to good SQ in any digital system.

[audiventory]

Just what the title says.

 

Is a CD player better sound quality than your computer sourced music? Or is the computer sourced music better quality? Or is it about the same?

 

As source no difference between any digital source.

 

However for CD need consider 2 issues:

 

1. Quality of implementation way of digital signal + DAC (as for computer as for CD player).

 

2. Pre-emphasis (amplitude-frequency responce pre-distortions that may be applied for some old CDs). Computer should know that need apply reverse pre-emphasis. Otherwise, there will sound distortion.

 

First point need consider for each separate computer system and each player.

 

Last point may be as reason of opinion that CD player sound better than computer.

 

I suppose, as rule computer CD-drive better than CD player's drive as optical disk reader. Bacause sometimes audio CD player can have problems with CD-RW, as example. It's my hypothesis only.

[audiventory]

I have always felt that the DAC is the key to good SQ in any digital system.

 

In general it is right. If don't consider speakers and all after DAC.

 

All problems of so called jitter (phase noise) may be fixed in DAC via buffering and proper clock generator.

 

I don't consider here possible phase problems of reading of CD (as mechanical-optical system), that may cause binary errors.

The errrors may be fixed inside drive and other way (via safe ripping, as example).

Safe ripping can try found and recover the binary errors that appear by "bad" reading. Also manipulation with reading speed can give more safe reading.