What is wrong with usb connection ?

[sandyk]

I don't know why it sounds better than a PC + USB. It just does.

 

Many other members do.

USB Audio needs a lot of additional help to perform as it should.

You already know this though, as somebody pretty well informed, from the many 100s of reports and threads from other members about the extent they have had to go to get vastly improved Audio via USB, then often exceeding CD replay quality.

[ginetto61]

I'll mention it one more time. These "problems" are somewhere between about the most miniscule thing you could possible bother with and imagination of something that isn't so. You seemed to ask about what is wrong with USB, and were primed to believe it all.

 

Hi i think i have got your point. The improvements can be minimal if any.

I have here mainly to gather opinions. I do not think that all the people here are masked pushers of accessories. I hope not.

 

You seem to be near the beginning so get a decent PC with an OS you are comfortable with. Connect the USB to a DAC. You will then be in a position to figure the finer details out for yourself. If you want someone to give you the best optimum answer and never touch it again, I may have just done that. If that isn't true, you still aren't going to get the answer you seek because there is no consensus on it

 

sorry to say but on some accessory i indeed see some consensuns and in particular:

1) Intona isolator

2) Uptone Regen

3) various accessory from iFi Audio

4) Yelowtec PUC2

In the worst scenario they are not detrimental. More often they are extremely beneficial.

Again ... why ? because usb audio connection is not hassle free ... just that.

Many of these accessories are sold with a return policy.

The customers buy them, try them on their systems and then are free to keep or return them and get a refund.

And most of them do not return them.

I instead have to buy to try.

Still ...

But i have got your point very clearly.

Thanks and regards, gino

[michaelD]

Hi and thanks for the useful advice.

It seems that some recent units have indeed a really good implementation of the usb. I think it is just a matter of good design in the end.

However i have a question OT.

I see that in your wonderful system you use AES/EBU connection between source and dac. Why ? do you deem it better than coax and optical ?

Thanks a lot, gino

 

Since I have the Aurender N10 I could try all the connections. The dealer that I got it from was a big USB fan so he gave me his best USB cable to try. I then tried the AES/EBU digital cable and I preferred that one. It really would of cost me a lot less with the USB but it just was not as good. As far as optical that is just a joke connection. Not even sure why that is still being offered. It lacks is so many ways particularly now with digital.

 

I totally agree that USB can be implemented well and Aurender is certainly one of those that do but in the end it comes up short. I have read several articles on music servers where the reviewer does the same thing and most often the USB also comes up short. Also look at the Aurender W20 it has dual AES/EBU to hook that unit up with USB would be a total waste of money. Like I said USB is only here because early music servers were laptops and USB was the only way to connect. I think another reason for USB continued support is that the cable itself is much less expensive then a quality AES/EBU cable. If true music servers were available early on we would not even have this conversation. I know its cool for those that can tweak a computer to maximize the results but in the end you have an inferior product yet spent similar money as you would of with a Aurender N100H. The industry has worked real hard to fine tune the USB connection and I believe it's here to stay just like many past relics of the music industry.

[ginetto61]

Since I have the Aurender N10 I could try all the connections. The dealer that I got it from was a big USB fan so he gave me his best USB cable to try. I then tried the AES/EBU digital cable and I preferred that one.

It really would of cost me a lot less with the USB but it just was not as good.

 

Hi and thanks a lot for the very helpful reply that confirms what i have read also here in the forum.

I will try to stay on balanced digital if possible

 

As far as optical that is just a joke connection. Not even sure why that is still being offered. It lacks is so many ways particularly now with digital.

 

Another important point. I played with some cheap toslink but the connectors especialli on the devices are usually plastic and tend to damage. Clearly AT&T standard is another game, but very very rare and very expensive. I saw it on old Wadia units.

 

I totally agree that USB can be implemented well and Aurender is certainly one of those that do

but in the end it comes up short. I have read several articles on music servers where the reviewer does the same thing and most often the USB also comes up short. Also look at the Aurender W20 it has dual AES/EBU to hook that unit up with USB would be a total waste of money. Like I said USB is only here because early music servers were laptops and USB was the only way to connect. I think another reason for USB continued support is that the cable itself is much less expensive then a quality AES/EBU cable. If true music servers were available early on we would not even have this conversation. I know its cool for those that can tweak a computer to maximize the results but in the end you have an inferior product yet spent similar money as you would of with a Aurender N100H. The industry has worked real hard to fine tune the USB connection and I believe it's here to stay just like many past relics of the music industry.

 

Thank you very much again for this very valuable analysis. I also thing that a dedicated music server/streamer is the best option and the most promising for high quality audio.

Regarding the computer interfaces Ethernet is coming more and more mentioned. The Dante audio system i mean.

I will wait. Maybe in 2-3 years there will be affordable interfaces.

It seems much better than usb by the way.

Kind regards, gino

[YashN]

I think that this is one of the root causes of USB problems - the involvement of the ground. That is why devices like the intona work so well - they break the ground link.

 

I broke the GND from my computer to my DAC running on battery as a test on a USB Cable test subject (read it was gutted): it was like having a new DAC.

[ginetto61]

I broke the GND from my computer to my DAC running on battery as a test on a USB Cable test subject (read it was gutted): it was like having a new DAC.

 

Hi and sorry if i jump in with a basic question.

This is a usb cable split open

 

http://nayakserver.com/images/USB%20Color%20Coded%20Cable.png

 

Data wires ok ... no problem.

 

Then i see: +5VDC, GND and Shield.

The picture says "shield not connected at the usb device".

So in order to achieve electrical isolation from the pc i have just to cut the red and the black wires ?

or also the shield must be cut ?

Because i want to build a data only cable.

Thanks a lot

Kind regards, gino

[YashN]

Hi and sorry if i jump in with a basic question.

This is a usb cable split open

 

http://nayakserver.com/images/USB%20Color%20Coded%20Cable.png

 

Data wires ok ... no problem.

 

Then i see: +5VDC, GND and Shield.

The picture says "shield not connected at the usb device".

So in order to achieve electrical isolation from the pc i have just to cut the red and the black wires ?

or also the shield must be cut ?

Because i want to build a data only cable.

Thanks a lot

Kind regards, gino

 

A data cable needs the + and - differential signals for sure.

 

Disconnection of power and ground is system-dependent: in my DAC for instance, if I try to disconnect the +5V, the DAC stops working.

 

Now, if you disconnect the shield at the DAC end, I am not too sure. I think I'd like the shield to protect the signal leads, but then if the shield at the DAC end connects to the ground plane, that wouldn't be good. Ideally, you'd want the shield to be connected at the chassis at both ends (someone correct me on this).

[Windows X]

In audio production platform, they often prefer

 

Firewire > USB > Ethernet

 

I'm talking about quality for audio recording of course. For playback systems, it's up to customers' guts and wits to implement good solutions. I'm fine with either way as long as it works right.

 

Regards,

Windows X

[ginetto61]

A data cable needs the + and - differential signals for sure.

 

Hi ! thanks a lot for the very helpful advice. That was also my guess. If there is noise embedded in the signal there is very little to do i think. But at least for power ...

 

Disconnection of power and ground is system-dependent: in my DAC for instance, if I try to disconnect the +5V, the DAC stops working.

 

this i do not understand. IMHO a usb dac should accept only the signal coming from the pc, this is clear.

But for any power requirement it should be independent, autonomous and providing the needed +5V clean and steady.

 

Now, if you disconnect the shield at the DAC end, I am not too sure. I think I'd like the shield to protect the signal leads, but then if the shield at the DAC end connects to the ground plane, that wouldn't be good. Ideally, you'd want the shield to be connected at the chassis at both ends (someone correct me on this).

 

If i understand well the shield should be connected to the plug at the pc end. I tried now and there is no connection between the external metal in the two plugs A e B. I will tried a cable only with the data wires connected.

I think that the very 1st requirement in a usb connection between a pc and a usb dac is galvanic isolation.

And this is confirmed by the people reporting improvements by using devices like the Intona.

Thanks a lot again, gino